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Honestly no. And if she had started this war I would’ve been against it too. I just argue against trump here because railing on the dems in a predominantly conservative forum isn’t any fun The dems have their own huge issues, namely being so insane on social and economic policy that it will drive people to vote for candidates like trump. And I will always blame the democrats for trump round two. He should have been easy to beat but when you run a senile guy and then sub in a cackling crazy lady at the 11th hour #brat #joy they somehow made trump look (temporarily) like the sane option.

We would have been unburdened by what has been. And by that, I’m referring to our alliance with THE Republic of North Korea and their influence over Iran. Things would been 1000x better with her at the helm of this ship…

Saw this as the list of demands. My replies after... 1. Guarantee that Iran will not be attacked again - OK, but conditions 2. Permanent end to the war, not just a ceasefire - OK, but conditions 3. End to Israeli strikes in Lebanon - we don't control Israel, so conditions 4. Lifting of all US sanctions on Iran - OK, conditions 5. End to all regional fighting against Iranian allies - stop your proxies 1st 6. In return, Iran would open the Strait of Hormuz 7. Iran would impose a Hormuz fee of $2 million per ship - No. Free transit or we seize all your tankers. 8. Iran would split these fees with Oman - No 9. Iran to provide rules for safe passage through Hormuz - No. No rules. Everyone is free to pass. 10. Iran to use Hormuz fees for reconstruction instead of reparations. - No fees. You want to be part of the free world, act like it.

Yes - we would have been burdened by what was.

Do you seriously think it would have been worse? Serious question.

For all you critics of Trump, do you really think Harris would have done better?!? Serious question.

interesting take from the side that simply claims "TDS" for every critique of their orange god they can't/won't respond to, but go off queen 💅

I read a lot of their nonsense just for mod reasons, otherwise, I’ve taken the stance that if they don’t want to discuss in good faith, then why bother.

I love how triggered these guys are...thanks for the comedy.

Might be worth to reach out and see?

What you don’t seem to get - and most don’t - Iran is not a military power. It hasn’t been a military power. It’s not an air power. It’s not a naval power. It basically has no way to project real power outside its borders. It’s not doing it now, really, it hasn’t don’t it effectively before. It hasn’t been a military power for many decades. Iran is an economic power. It is a huge oil and LNG supplier. And it now has realized just how much economic power it has via control of a strait that they weren’t really sure they could control - but now they know damn well they can just load up on quadcopters and remote control jet skis the next time there is a cease fire to be adequately able to control the world economy again. You don’t control economic power with military power. You must use diplomacy and influence. Your stated goals cannot happen with the military, because even if we nuke Tehran, a few dudes can throw some mines in an area that demands international cooperation to be a real place to go and entirely negate any military victory. Your desires aren’t achievable in the way you imagine them. And if we agree to a peace plan in which they turn the Strait of Hormuz into another Panama Canal, Iran has the negotiating room of a superpower.

Plenty, including these last two that I specifically said is retarded. But that would mean you’d actually have to have awareness on what you’re talking about and scroll up a few posts. How’s that foot taste?

@Pooter @No One It’s very easy to understand guys, stop being such disingenuous douches.

TACO Tuesday indeed. Blatant market manipulation. Next step is "defeated" Iran blowing up some more expensive equipment. Because this admin's word isn't worth the shit stained single ply trump branded toilet paper it's written on.

How's this one working out for you? You can find plenty more examples, and I tried to stay away from obviously left of center sources. Even Fox sees it- China gaining leverage over US Brookings - Shows US allies turning to China RAND - World leaders flirting with China Gallup - China moves past US in global leadership AP - US Allies resetting relations with China

Because after seeing years of simping and rushing to his defense when we call him out for saying clearly unhinged stuff, you saying “well I don’t like everything he says” and claiming not to be a supporter doesn’t really convince me anymore. The “I’m just a stoic political realist who picked the lesser of two evils” routine doesn’t hold as much water when you charge in to defend him and glaze his every policy move whenever there’s the slightest criticism. As others have said there is actually a 3rd option here: expect better and stop making excuses for the guy

Called it!

Or.... here's a novel concept, stop supporting Trump. Like, if all MAGA world, every single Trumpster, Trumpamaniac, all those suffering Type II TDS, just all stopped supporting raging dickhead Trump, and joined the ranks of Americans that want an honorable Prez, then maybe he goes away. But as long as there are lots of Ratners, Brabus', etc that continue the bullshit of, " but his policies" then we get what we deserve... a fucking raging asshole. @No One , that was quite the summary of Trump Bullshit. Good work. It wont convince the Trumpsters, tho. Type II TDS is like a chem trail/lizard man/5G control/Flat Earth conspiracy theory. Good luck trying to convince someone its all bullshit.

"the Dow is over 50,000"-level deflection

Bringing this back to reality and not just listening to ad hominem about how everyone who doesn’t support Israeli actions is an anti-Semite (CH), any means are justified as long as the ends are better (LR), and how we’re all fat virgins (Bdawg). My prediction: in two hours, the greatest deal ever is announced. Strikes are postponed. Iran denies. Ships still don’t move.

How is it no matter how many times we have this conversation, you are only willing to argue with "his supporters" who aren't on this website? Do I take any of his tweets literally? How many times do I have to say that I don't like the way he talks, before you stop calling it hand waving? Or are your political ideologies so simple as to say: if what I want does not exist, then I choose nothing. It's pretty easy to say, but it was result in catastrophe. I don't care what he says. Not because I don't care what anybody says, but because that's just the politics that I have been delivered. For the millionth time, I don't have the option of choosing between an honest man who gets things done, and a liar who gets things done. The choice I have been given is between a lying politician who acts honest and dignified, and gets nothing done, and a lying politician who acts depraved and unhinged, and gets some things done. It's a shitty choice, which every Trump supporter on this board had said over and over and over and over, but you can't hear it because it's easier to argue with someone who isn't actually here to respond to you. The elusive 30% I suppose. Perhaps the biggest difference here is that you think Trump is causing all of this. I do not. I believe that the corrupting influence of comfort and security have created a society that is more content avoiding tough questions and tough realities. They do not consider the dangers of electing or unserious politicians, because they have never experienced those dangers. Overwhelmingly most people are just bad preparing for things they have not lived. Those people, we the people, elect clowns who promise what can not be delivered. I don't support Trump because I think he's going to save us from the ugly yet inevitable consequences of a society going soft. I support him because he appears to be moving pieces on the board in a way that will increase our odds of winning the epic conflict that always arises when societies break down. He will not be the leader that wins that conflict, nor will any of his acolytes. Because once Americans are reintroduced to fear and danger, they will elect men capable of leading them through it. But by all means, please continue explaining to me and the other supporters here what our views actually are.

lol wtf is this boomer ass fox news argument 😂 Chicago is a city of 9 million people. Since when do we compare soldier death tolls to major metropolitan area crime to figure out if a war is a going well or not? Oh that’s right no one does that.. it’s a stupid deflection tactic because: -the straight isn’t open -the regime isn’t changed -the people aren’t rising up -the missile threat isn’t eliminated -negotiations aren’t progressing -the region isn’t safer Can’t argue the war on its own merits? Pivot to TDS accusations and LiBeRal cItY cRiMe

Whoa whoa buddy. Verifiably false information, must be hard having so much pent up rage. Drink a beer bro, you’re being a Loonie, chill out. #TDS Trump Devotion Syndrome. Sorry, is this how we’re supposed to argue on this forum? Tryin to channel my inner CH/Brabdawg

See this is the classic ‘have your cake and eat it too’ technique that the trump cult of personality constantly lives in and uses to hand wave away anything bad he says or does. Because his supporters DO take his tweets literally.. when they like what he’s saying. When trump says he’s making great progress in negotiations with Iran (a lie) his supporters take that literally. It’s only when he’s advocating for war crimes or something else reprehensible that they’ll go “bro haven’t you learned by now not to take him literally? he’s just a showman.. why are you making such a big deal about a mean tweet.” It’s a convenient little unfalsifiable bubble you guys have created for yourselves. Anything trump says or does you like—taken at face value and evidence of how great he is Anything he says or does that is objectively horrible—“calm down bro don’t be so literal he’s just a showman” So I’ll ask the question for the second time today in slightly different words: is there anything he could say or do that you won’t use that technique to hand wave away? Are there limits to the trump cuck filter or does it apply in every single scenario?

The left will NEVER see a positive thing associated with Trump. Sometime in the early 2030's our Baseops loonies will begin their annual trip to Miami to have a TDS circle jerk in the parking lot of Trump's Presidential library. More Americans died in the liberal mecca of Chicago last weekend than the entire U.S. military since the fight with Iran started...