Jump to content
Baseops Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Guest whairdhugo?

Changing/Switching airframes

Recommended Posts

54 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

In the U-28, the community started with guys from all the various AF airplanes so the community is used to that. Having said that, in the last few years if someone came from a different aircraft, 90% of the time it was a booger flick from a different community and that person was a major drain on their squadron.

Be in the 10% if you do switch, please.

That’s a bit harsh, although maybe I’m in the 90% and this is how I find out 😬

  • Like 2
  • Haha 4
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be the best C-17 dude you can, as has been stated. Hopefully you’re at TCM or CHS and can get airdrop qual’d...that would likely make you more marketable to AFSOC depending on what type of airframe you’re trying to get into. I’ve also known a few guys who were picked up for green door, so that’s maybe an option for you down the road as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

That’s a bit harsh, although maybe I’m in the 90% and this is how I find out 😬

Hahaha no. You predate that and fit well within the BAMF group from other jets. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Be the best C-17 dude you can, as has been stated. Hopefully you’re at TCM or CHS and can get airdrop qual’d...that would likely make you more marketable to AFSOC depending on what type of airframe you’re trying to get into. I’ve also known a few guys who were picked up for green door, so that’s maybe an option for you down the road as well.

Eh. I’d say CHS or TCM plus AD just makes you more likely to do a prisoner swap or LTS. If you’re a single squadron dude, be good and upgrade quickly and you may be able to get one of the special AFSOC jobs

 

 

But honestly your desires could possibly change in the next 3 years to wanting to stay in AMC or head to AETC.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, 50ScoopsofWhey said:

What about going to bombers instead of AFSOC?

The B-1 is broke af and that community is trying to figure out what to do with all their new pilots who aren’t flying (friend of mine PCS’d to the schoolhouse a year ago and in that time has flown the jet TWICE). The B-2 is cool but fairly tough to get into unless you know somebody, so I hear. I guess there’s always the Buff?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a couple years ago they were looking for cross flows from heavies to BUFFs. Thought about it for a few days but decided against it. Why not? Minot...and PRP/nukes.

 

Edit to add: usually there's also a message looking for crossflow to B-2s every year or so

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WheelsOff said:

friend of mine PCS’d to the schoolhouse a year ago and in that time has flown the jet TWICE

Damn.  Worse than I thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of broken B-1s, last week, the OG at Dyess said it will take anywhere from 3-7 years to recover from all the maintenance issues. He said that the community will have to shrink, and that inevitably some people will finish MQT and be sent elsewhere. There are several pilots in the ops squadron on regression, and a few younger guys have been kicked to the OSS where they go unqualified. 

Wouldn’t it make more sense to send people to other airframes before pushing them through the FTU, only to send them elsewhere? For context, I have not flown a military aircraft since last year, and will not fly the B-1 until next spring at the earliest. 

My understanding is that General Ray wants to keep people in the aircraft that they dropped. I want to be clear that I am not ungrateful, I’m just concerned about the long-term impact on my flying career and don’t know how to bring it up to anyone with decision-making power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Ant-man said:

Speaking of broken B-1s, last week, the OG at Dyess said it will take anywhere from 3-7 years to recover from all the maintenance issues. He said that the community will have to shrink, and that inevitably some people will finish MQT and be sent elsewhere. There are several pilots in the ops squadron on regression, and a few younger guys have been kicked to the OSS where they go unqualified. 

Wouldn’t it make more sense to send people to other airframes before pushing them through the FTU, only to send them elsewhere? For context, I have not flown a military aircraft since last year, and will not fly the B-1 until next spring at the earliest. 

My understanding is that General Ray wants to keep people in the aircraft that they dropped. I want to be clear that I am not ungrateful, I’m just concerned about the long-term impact on my flying career and don’t know how to bring it up to anyone with decision-making power.

First, it’s not that there aren’t any flyable jets, there just aren’t that many. 

 

Second...you have to keep a broad spectrum of ages/experience in the community. If you just kick every new person out until the jets are ready in 4 years for full combat coded squadrons to be full up it would only be new LTs from the FTU (or in your proposal, people also new to the airplane fresh out of FTU), and that doesn’t really work. 

 

Although, let’s be honest, big AF is moving that way with the current definitely-not-retention-crisis anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ant-man said:

Speaking of broken B-1s, last week, the OG at Dyess said it will take anywhere from 3-7 years to recover from all the maintenance issues. He said that the community will have to shrink, and that inevitably some people will finish MQT and be sent elsewhere. There are several pilots in the ops squadron on regression, and a few younger guys have been kicked to the OSS where they go unqualified. 

Wouldn’t it make more sense to send people to other airframes before pushing them through the FTU, only to send them elsewhere? For context, I have not flown a military aircraft since last year, and will not fly the B-1 until next spring at the earliest. 

My understanding is that General Ray wants to keep people in the aircraft that they dropped. I want to be clear that I am not ungrateful, I’m just concerned about the long-term impact on my flying career and don’t know how to bring it up to anyone with decision-making power.

Pretty sure some kid on here (or someone with a story of him/her) failed out of the B-1 FTU for academics and got sent to B-52s. I also remember someone in the FEB board who got booted from B-1 FTU and was being sent to scan IDs at the gate for the next 9.69 years. 

How lucky you feeling? 

Be patient, things might change, you might just have to fly that desk for awhile until things get fixed or you can get a white jet tour. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tl;dr summary, you'll probably get to stay and you'll probably get to fly a more normal amount, and you'll probably look back on it as being worth it

You're young. Have patience. I wasn't at that OG/CC call, but the previous WOM I'd heard was that brand new B-Course grads are *not* being sent off to do other things. The temporary crew force redux is hitting the middle tier of experience (broadly speaking), spread out across year groups. The whole point of drawing down manning is to ensure that those who stay can fly, gain experience, and upgrade on a more normal timeline (and not get bottlenecked as has happened a lot recently) given reduced sortie availability... While those that go elsewhere use their experience to add value elsewhere in the CAF, and learn things that will add value to the B-1 when they return.

The circumstances suck, but the community has weathered worse and bounced back to bigger and better things... e.g. the early 1990s trying to figure out if it still had a mission after the Cold War, and the early 2000s when the fleet and the crew force was permanently reduced by 1/3rd. You can look at this as "I missed the 18 fat years, and arrived just in time for the lean ones," or you can look at it as an opportunity to be on the ground floor of creating something great. I spent 8 years on the Octobomber, arriving a few years after the "Nukes Across America" incident when it was nuclear exercise after nuclear exercise occasionally punctuated by Guam. People that were short term thinkers looked for the first opportunity they could get to punch to something else (ALFA tours, green door assignments, rando non-flying staff gigs, etc.), and missed going to combat. Those of us who stuck around and tried to make our corner of the AF better eventually led the way when we went back to CENTCOM. Likewise, I suspect the B-1's finest hour is still ahead of us.

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Disco_Nav963 said:

I suspect the B-1's finest hour is still ahead of us.

Cut up BOne parts roasting on the desert floor at DM as B-21s roar overhead...Thats the future. 

The crews are staying put for the most part because of assignment cycles (systemic reaction is slow), and because the initial AFGSC plan to take care of them was unrealistic - things that take a lot of time/money/approval/basing decisions and/or are competitive. It’ll likely be a mix of most of those options, but no one place will get all the BOne dudes - you’re not all going to school/staff/UPT.

That takes time to settle. And just because your airplane takes a dump doesn’t earn you any extra points in the eyes of big Air Force. 

Luck and timing. Make your choices appropriately and remember rule #1.

Chuck

Edited by Chuck17
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/4/2019 at 6:50 PM, Ant-man said:

Speaking of broken B-1s, last week, the OG at Dyess said it will take anywhere from 3-7 years to recover from all the maintenance issues. He said that the community will have to shrink, and that inevitably some people will finish MQT and be sent elsewhere. There are several pilots in the ops squadron on regression, and a few younger guys have been kicked to the OSS where they go unqualified. 

Wouldn’t it make more sense to send people to other airframes before pushing them through the FTU, only to send them elsewhere? For context, I have not flown a military aircraft since last year, and will not fly the B-1 until next spring at the earliest. 

My understanding is that General Ray wants to keep people in the aircraft that they dropped. I want to be clear that I am not ungrateful, I’m just concerned about the long-term impact on my flying career and don’t know how to bring it up to anyone with decision-making power.

Ant-man,

To answer your question, leadership is already aware of your situation. You could raise your concerns again during the next all-call coming up, but expect to learn nothing new. In my limited perspective, they still don’t have a gameplan to fix the manning restructure.

The short term impact of your situation is you’ll complete MQT and upgrade to AC/SML significantly later than your peers in other airframes. However, since the whole B-1 community is affected, it won’t affect your AF career early on.

Don’t worry too much about flying for the airlines now, but acknowledge if B-1 production doesn’t improve significantly for the remaining duration of your ADSC, you’ll be less competitive for the major airlines. To mitigate that, you can volunteer to fly white jets and/or fly for a regional for a bit once you separate. 

Edited by Newb
Grammar
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I met a F22 driver that was a patch in 135s and somehow worked a deal.

I was always told once you're heavies you're always heavies. I guess anything is possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LoveDumpster said:

I met a F22 driver that was a patch in 135s and somehow worked a deal.

I was always told once you're heavies you're always heavies. I guess anything is possible.

It’s all luck and timing, with increased probability because he’s a great dude. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

It’s all luck and timing, with increased probability because he’s a great dude. 

he is a fantastic bro

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/10/2019 at 12:26 PM, SurelySerious said:

It’s all luck and timing, with increased probability because he’s a great dude. 

He was one of 4 lucky heavy dudes that were part of a heavy to fighter crossflow “experiment”. They also sent 4 more to bombers. Know one of them personally. 
 

The version I heard was that AFPC was kept out of the loop on this crossflow good idea fairy, and it pissed them off, and subsequently shut down any future crossflow chances for the fat kids, unfortunately. 
 

Edit: spelling

Edited by WheelsOff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WheelsOff said:

He was one of 4 lucky heavy dudes that were part of a heavy to fighter crossflow “experiment”. They also sent 4 more to bombers. Know one of them personally. 
 

The version I heard was that AFPC was kept out of the loop on this crossflow good idea fairy, and it pissed them off, and subsequently shut down any future crossflow chances for the fat kids, unfortunately. 
 

Edit: spelling

It’s a good thing AFPC is so good at this talent management thing that they won’t consider anyone else’s ideas. 

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Believe it or not, I have an Atta-Boy for AFPC with a big personal victory. I dropped RPAs by choice out of UPT 9 years ago and re-categorized as an RPA dude in 2016. I've loved the mission and people I've worked with, but life/career/family priorities changed big time for me in 2018 (O-6+, progression, and box checking quit being the goal). In light of that, I've been pushing hard for 1.5 years to get back in the cockpit by any means possible to learn a new mission, breath some fresh air, have an adventure, and challenge myself as an aviator (while keeping family, health, and personal priorities higher than they'd been). I hit a lot of road blocks (and sacrificed what my military career had been if I'm honest), and I was in full on cards out Palace Chase job hunting mode.

After being told no for a year, AFPC and my SQ/OG leadership made me an offer to return to fly on AD with the other UPT Direct dudes who were 3 years out of UPT. I've kept it close hold because it's been word of mouth only for 6 months...but they sent me to SERE, I'm flying in a T-1 refresher course right now, and I have orders for PIQ in the -135.

I'm super stoked for the new opportunity and moving to Fairchild. Thanks to the bros here on Baseops that helped me navigate through Palace Chase options, cross-training, and AFPC stuff. School is out of the picture and making O-5 isn't likely (not sure promoting is the best option for me at this point anyway)....but I'll be taking a 3 year bonus along with the initial qual ADSC. And being a free agent taking it assignment by assignment is awesome so far. I have no idea what I'll be looking to do in 3-4 years, but I'm pumped to be flying again and there are ALOT of varied options I'm excited thinking about. :beer:

  • Like 7
  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/26/2019 at 12:31 PM, GoodSplash9 said:

Believe it or not, I have an Atta-Boy for AFPC with a big personal victory. I dropped RPAs by choice out of UPT 9 years ago and re-categorized as an RPA dude in 2016. I've loved the mission and people I've worked with, but life/career/family priorities changed big time for me in 2018 (O-6+, progression, and box checking quit being the goal). In light of that, I've been pushing hard for 1.5 years to get back in the cockpit by any means possible to learn a new mission, breath some fresh air, have an adventure, and challenge myself as an aviator (while keeping family, health, and personal priorities higher than they'd been). I hit a lot of road blocks (and sacrificed what my military career had been if I'm honest), and I was in full on cards out Palace Chase job hunting mode.

After being told no for a year, AFPC and my SQ/OG leadership made me an offer to return to fly on AD with the other UPT Direct dudes who were 3 years out of UPT. I've kept it close hold because it's been word of mouth only for 6 months...but they sent me to SERE, I'm flying in a T-1 refresher course right now, and I have orders for PIQ in the -135.

I'm super stoked for the new opportunity and moving to Fairchild. Thanks to the bros here on Baseops that helped me navigate through Palace Chase options, cross-training, and AFPC stuff. School is out of the picture and making O-5 isn't likely (not sure promoting is the best option for me at this point anyway)....but I'll be taking a 3 year bonus along with the initial qual ADSC. And being a free agent taking it assignment by assignment is awesome so far. I have no idea what I'll be looking to do in 3-4 years, but I'm pumped to be flying again and there are ALOT of varied options I'm excited thinking about. :beer:

Dude that is fantastic. I've totally noticed AFPC is a lot more willing to play ball in the last 2-3 years. I'm glad there is finally some direction that people having some control on their careers helps to retain them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/19/2019 at 8:03 PM, WheelsOff said:

He was one of 4 lucky heavy dudes that were part of a heavy to fighter crossflow “experiment”. They also sent 4 more to bombers. Know one of them personally. 
 

The version I heard was that AFPC was kept out of the loop on this crossflow good idea fairy, and it pissed them off, and subsequently shut down any future crossflow chances for the fat kids, unfortunately. 
 

Edit: spelling

someone significantly wiser than I recently said to me that there have always been paths to oddball crossflow and that; they exist as they are, amorphous and ephemeral, because it ensures only the most determined can successfully navigate the entire way. while i appreciate this deeply not cynical view of crossflow it's not really the best solution.

this isn't a new take but: there's an extremely reasonable case to be made that, for reasons ranging from leveraging individual potential to simply making people happy to retain them, a well-defined and regularly held cross flow process should be established. hell, the navy has one and it works pretty damn well from what i've heard. a flag officer came and spoke to some pilots in my community not too long ago and i left with the distinct impression that there is some awareness and potentially, willingness to push for that type of program.

 

Edited by 12xu2a3x3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 12xu2a3x3 said:

. hell, the navy has one and it works pretty damn well from what i've heard. 

The Navy does have a process but the numbers are exceptionally small that do it. The irony is the Navy seems to make it easier to do (as compared to the AF) but less guys do it. From what I’ve seen it’s mainly because of how the officer career path is built and crossing from rotary to fixed, etc, can be difficult to recover from career wise. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bigred said:

The Navy does have a process but the numbers are exceptionally small that do it. The irony is the Navy seems to make it easier to do (as compared to the AF) but less guys do it. From what I’ve seen it’s mainly because of how the officer career path is built and crossing from rotary to fixed, etc, can be difficult to recover from career wise. 

my understanding is that, if you elect to do that switch, you unofficially give up any shot at command since you never have the same level of cred in the jet. i think people in the air force would take that deal, they can always punch to the guard/reserves if they truly want to command. this reminds me a bit of people i know coming out of UPT to C-17s fighting to go back to their previous base when they're told that they "need" to go to either a big or small base (whichever they weren't at previously) for career progression.

i don't believe that most people who are trying to crossflow are worried about box checking sts. in the U-2/B-2 communities it seems like carefully selecting self-actualized pilots who are nicely seasoned in various airframes is a net gain to the community. this is a bit in contrast to what i've heard from some 11Fs where FAIPs show up late and have all the associated hassle and the community gets what it gets, good or bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...