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This thread is actually really kind of comical. On one hand, you have pointy nose dudes bitching about the lack of quality of UPT/IFF grads they are getting because the training pipeline is so badly undermanned, and then in the very same post, come up with this elitist BS about how other people don't have what it takes to train your guys.

Like, okay, fine, the rest of us weren't exactly knocking down the door to come join your dumpster fire, but hey good luck with not having a midair with your shitty VR-trained UPT Next wingman that the last 3 training programs have been passing the buck on.

Edited by joe1234
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We should have listened to those 90 year old sim instructors who said this was going to happen when we got rid of the “fix to fix” Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

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10 minutes ago, joe1234 said:

This thread is actually really kind of comical. On one hand, you have pointy nose dudes bitching about the lack of quality of UPT/IFF grads they are getting because the training pipeline is so badly undermanned, and then in the very same post, come up with this elitist BS about how other people don't have what it takes to train your guys.

Like, okay, fine, the rest of us weren't exactly knocking down the door to come join your dumpster fire, but hey good luck with not having a midair with your shitty VR-trained UPT Next wingman that the last 3 training programs have been passing the buck on.

They’ve started forcing VR on IFF and the FTUs as well, and cutting syllabi. Eventually we’ll just have an Air Force that never flies the plane until it’s time for war. I can’t wait to be done with this disaster of an organization. 

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Might be drifting the thread off topic a bit. I was wondering what happens when you PCS and they cancel your assignment for a waiver like this. What happens if you don’t want to extend your ADSC for a different location?  Are you screwed and already signed away the 2-3 years to PCS and they can just change it or what?

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Nevertheless, hard to argue that the AF did not fork the guy... I have empathy.  Especially when this has more or less been my experience every, single, PCS .  Unfortunately, like you said, it seems to happen to everyone.  That said, if everyone stayed silent there would be 0% chance of leadership accountability or change.
As far as the pro tips, good stuff.  In this guy's case he sounds like a prior E guy who is going to finish out his 20 in 4-6 years.

I think it’s one thing to get orders for T-6s to SPS, to get a “j/k we’re blanket revoking everyone’s waiver” a couple days before the movers show up. Different story than getting that assignment out of the gate. More like expectation management instead of AF-standard knee jerk reaction.

Of course, like it’s been said plenty of times on this forum, we’re all free to vote with our feet and seven day opt, are we not. At least those who are still staying AD after their ADSC are still trying to plug holes in this sinking ship, despite Big Blue’s effort to it up. Besides, doesn’t UPT need more IPs period?
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Seriously, does anybody know what the "consolation" assignment was? Kinda hard to plaster your sob story on the internet about getting a 38 UPT gig removed from you, if you scoffed offline at a T-6 assignment to the same location, which would have effectively ameliorated the life disruption issue for the family. Not saying that's what happened here, just asking. 

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6 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

Seriously, does anybody know what the "consolation" assignment was? Kinda hard to plaster your sob story on the internet about getting a 38 UPT gig removed from you, if you scoffed offline at a T-6 assignment to the same location, which would have effectively ameliorated the life disruption issue for the family. Not saying that's what happened here, just asking. 

T-6s to Pensacola.

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39 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

Seriously, does anybody know what the "consolation" assignment was? Kinda hard to plaster your sob story on the internet about getting a 38 UPT gig removed from you, if you scoffed offline at a T-6 assignment to the same location, which would have effectively ameliorated the life disruption issue for the family. Not saying that's what happened here, just asking. 

Go fuck your face.

The author of that "sob story" is one of my buddies and one of the most patriotic, humble, well-liked dudes I've known in my years in the AF.  Not many people here have had assignments cancelled after: signing papers for a house, wife finding a GOOD job, and enrolling kids in school mere days before it starts.  I don't care what you've been through, that's tough on anyone.  Now, because one GO thinks heavy drivers aren't capable of teaching tac form, he has to do it all over again, but now he gets to pull his kids out of school mid-year and enroll them somewhere else. 

His post should be something we can all rally around as another feather in the "Big Blue gives zero fucks about us" cap.  Most of us in his situation would punch at the soonest opportunity, middle fingers in the air.  But knowing the author, he will take the kick in the junk and keep moving forward because he cares about Mother Blue and legitimately wants to fix this cluster fuck and leave it in a better place.

 

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35 minutes ago, BADFNZ said:

Go fuck your face.

The author of that "sob story" is one of my buddies and one of the most patriotic, humble, well-liked dudes I've known in my years in the AF.  Not many people here have had assignments cancelled after: signing papers for a house, wife finding a GOOD job, and enrolling kids in school mere days before it starts.  I don't care what you've been through, that's tough on anyone.  Now, because one GO thinks heavy drivers aren't capable of teaching tac form, he has to do it all over again, but now he gets to pull his kids out of school mid-year and enroll them somewhere else. 

His post should be something we can all rally around as another feather in the "Big Blue gives zero fucks about us" cap.  Most of us in his situation would punch at the soonest opportunity, middle fingers in the air.  But knowing the author, he will take the kick in the junk and keep moving forward because he cares about Mother Blue and legitimately wants to fix this cluster fuck and leave it in a better place.

 

Hey white knight, I was merely asking. Calm the fuck down with the keyboard hostility and  go fuck yourself right back with your misplaced umbrage, trying to make me the straw man for your buddy's lot in life. You re barking up the wrong tree. This god damn board I tell ya. The stundepilot.net days seem civilized by comparison. 

At any rate. My aggregate point on the dynamics of the UPT fiasco stand. 

FUBIJAR.

 

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7 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

We're conflating grievances here. They could give him a T-6 to SPS, problem solved. No meltdown, no waiver needed, no PCS expenditure loss, wifiey can still be assistant DA (jesus how many times did he mention that, it was like watching one of Khalessi's minions announce all her titles on GOT). 

You are assuming there was a T-6 spot for him and yeah he mentioned his wife a lot and good for him. The AF gets young motivated college students to become pilots, they don't keep those same people in the AF, they keep families. I've had three people in the last month tell me "the wife said this was the last move" and so they started looking for an exit. 

All in all I though his post was a very reasonable assessment of the situation given the asshattery from 19 AF.

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Besides, doesn’t UPT need more IPs period?


When decentralized execution gets to dictate the organizational needs to the centralized control, the future takes a back seat to the now. There isn’t any mystery here...we hit a point where we should have started saying no, resources aren’t available to take care of the future and escalate “needed” requirements now.

We have needed more IPs for a while. Everyone knows that, to include the last general I heard say, “...but, I need you to do it with less IPs”.

I’m not in a position to argue any gripe provided thus far, but we don’t have to use VR to reduce the syllabus. It could be used highly effectively to augment training and increase the quality of the products that move on to the next step in the pipe line. Naturally, the GOs want it to be the solution today to the needs of now...always the same story.

Who can lead the AF on a path that minimizes our involvement within the capacity that provides for sustainment? Seems like it’s part of the job description of a couple jobs, but we can’t get it. And, we also cannot promote people that would...

~Bendy
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When decentralized execution gets to dictate the organizational needs to the centralized control, the future takes a back seat to the now. There isn’t any mystery here...we hit a point where we should have started saying no, resources aren’t available to take care of the future and escalate “needed” requirements now.

We have needed more IPs for a while. Everyone knows that, to include the last general I heard say, “...but, I need you to do it with less IPs”.

I’m not in a position to argue any gripe provided thus far, but we don’t have to use VR to reduce the syllabus. It could be used highly effectively to augment training and increase the quality of the products that move on to the next step in the pipe line. Naturally, the GOs want it to be the solution today to the needs of now...always the same story.

Who can lead the AF on a path that minimizes our involvement within the capacity that provides for sustainment? Seems like it’s part of the job description of a couple jobs, but we can’t get it. And, we also cannot promote people that would...

~Bendy

Bendy, you make some good points. I’ve been eating popcorn reading the threads debate what SUPT has become. My unit got its first batch of copilots in a couple of years, so it’ll be interesting to see what sorts out from UPT to FTU production wrt the quality of green copilots.

At this point, it looks like the AF has dug itself a pretty deep hole, and the only recourse it has left is for all of us to shoulder the risk of dudes getting fewer hours in the seat to gain basic proficiency. I don’t see how else it realistically can fix the mess it’s in.
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I am not in the least bit qualified to even comment on what flavor of pilot should instruct in what flavor of airplane.  But I was in the Air Force for 20 years and can recognize a massive elephant sized anal probe from toxic leadership when I see one.

 

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On 8/8/2019 at 3:18 PM, pawnman said:

Because despite not getting into high-g dogfights, those bomber guys have spent a career flying the aircraft as a weapon, integrated into a package, studying air threats and learning how to prioritize tasks in the cockpit to fly and release weapons.

And no 11S does that? Hmm...

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The hilarity here is that the same shitty 11F’s that are being complained about will be the ones who are shipped back to UPT after a 2 year touch and go in a fighter.

From my little slice of the AF, my U-28 bros that went to 38’s (after ~2000 combat hours as evaluators) would all have ended up in fighters if not for the poor planning of being 2008 college graduates. But those guys are now not “good enough” to teach a guy how to fly tac and extended trail. I don’t get it. 

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4 hours ago, zachbar said:

Moving away from all this 11F talk, here’s what UPT is like now. Looks like the demand for quality training by the students exceeds the supply the Air Force is willing to give...

615D5D84-B5BE-4518-8B90-9091CE035DCF.jpeg

Guess I found my retirement job.

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10 hours ago, pawnman said:

Guess I found my retirement job.

Sorry pawnman, they don’t hire dirt bags and child abusers. Feel free to check back in once you go to school in residence and haven't said fuck in front of your daughter for at least 6.9 months. 

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1 hour ago, brabus said:

Sorry pawnman, they don’t hire dirt bags and child abusers. Feel free to check back in once you go to school in residence and haven't said fuck in front of your daughter for at least 6.9 months. 

Well, fuck.

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