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Clark Griswold

How to leave Afghanistan

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Who would have thought Afghan pilots would bail on their country for US foot longs and a little Netflix and chill?

Since one of their female pilots was granted asylum. Wouldn't the Taliban just go after her family? The US closed the bring all your family to the US loophole I thought.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/05/02/afghan-pilot-training-ends-after-almost-half-went-awol-in-america/

Edited by Shazaam

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I work with a guy who’s father was killed because he was an interpreter for the Army in Afghanistan (from Kabul). He got an expedited temporary visa because the Taliban found out he was working for the Army and started calling his house and found his work number and threatening to kill him, his wife, and kid. Obviously if it’s not for nefarious reasons, I don’t blame those that defected knowing they could lose their lives for just interacting or being trained by Americans.

He’s taking his citizenship test laster this year, just had another kid, and bought his first house. If there is someone that loves being in America, it’s him. Sometimes we just don’t realize how good we have it to be naturally born Americans. It takes hearing stories like that to make us realize that despite the internal turmoil that this country has, it’s still the greatest one on the planet.

Edited by Sua Sponte
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https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sen-lindsey-graham-abandoning-afghanistan-would-pave-way-for-another-9-11

According to Trump, peace talks are dead. I never thought that making a deal with the Taliban would be the answer to the "how to leave Afghanistan" question. I don't necessary agree with the above article on how abandoning all hope would pave the way for another 9-11. 

Interested in what anybody else on here thinks or has to say. 

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55 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

I think it’s well past time to GTFO.

2.

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Another article talking about what happens if when we leave.  Will Afghanistan remain stable, will it crumble,  will it be someplace in between, etc.

This part below was news to me though.  Can't help but think "what might have been," had we declared victory back in 2001, handed things over to the Taliban with a stern warning to not f-it-up, or else, and gone home. 

Quote

At the end of 2001, just months after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the Taliban reached out to the U.S. with a proposal: They would agree to renounce al Qaeda, stop fighting and join power-sharing talks.

President George W. Bush, like the country at large, was in no mood for negotiating with the regime that had given shelter to Osama bin Laden and his followers. The Bush administration scuttled a reconciliation deal that the Taliban had struck with the country’s interim leader, Hamid Karzai, vetoed the Islamist movement’s participation in the Bonn peace conference and killed or imprisoned Taliban leaders.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-the-new-afghanistan-survive-americas-exit-11569596722?mod=hp_lead_pos11

 

 

Edited by Blue

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The Washington Post weighs-in this morning with "The Afghanistan Papers," a broad look at the war in Afghanistan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/

Quote

U.S. officials misled public about Afghan war, confidential documents reveal

Insiders detail what went wrong in longest armed conflict in U.S. history

For nearly two decades of fighting in Afghanistan, U.S. leaders have sounded a constant refrain: We are making progress. They were not, documents from government interviews show, and they knew it.

The Post obtained records from more than 400 of the interviews after a three-year legal battle. The documents reveal that people who were directly involved in the war could not shake their doubts about the strategy and mission.

The article also contains links to all the source documents (interviews, memos, etc).  Quite the rabbit hole to go down.  This interview with BGen Brian Copes, Indiana Army Guard, was just three pages, but hit on a lot of the major topics (too much money, too much in-fighting between DoD, DoS, etc, too much "top-down" thinking, etc).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/documents-database/?document=copes_brian_ll_05_c15_02252016

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We've spent more on Afghanistan in adjusted dollars than we did on the Marshall Plan FFS.  

Fellow alum was a PRT commander there about 5 years ago, so like 14-15 years into the war.  He and crew rolled up into a valley in western Afghanistan near the Iranian border and the locals thought he and his folks were Russians.  Never heard of 9-11 and didn't know there were any Americans in Afghanistan.  14-15 years into the war!

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Really drunk but here goes:

2003. Al Udied. Refragged for DV airlift. Guy in suit and large entourage shows up. Name is Dov Zakheim. (Google him)

We are delayed for some bullshit reason. He want's to sit on the bunk (C-130 flight deck). Taking him to AFG.

Give him a headset and he won't shut up. Says he;s Undersecretary of Defense Comptroller. Asks if we want to see something hilarious.entire

Shows us a stack of fake/spoof $1 Billion Dollar bill with his face in the middle that is denominated in "1 Billion Out Year Dollars". He's super proud of it. Talks incessantly about how he has unlimited funding and the entire "US ecomony benind him"

I ask "What are Out Year Dollars"? He Says Congress has basically authorized unlimited funding for the wars that aren't in any budget.

He's going to AFG to see what General's want and they'll get anything and everything. He gives me his business card.

I find it years later, Google his name, and find that lots of money (2 Trillion +) was missing/unaccounted for.

It's all a scam. Hope I don't get fucked for posting this.

Edited by torqued
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I think the thing that's most shocking about this is the collective "meh" that's coming from the breaking of this story.  It doesn't seem like anyone in government, military, civilian etc really cares.  We'll just keep spending money and lives in a war that we know is unwinnable because we can't bring ourselves to admit that we've lost. 

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Did anyone think we had a legitimate plan to “win” in Afghanistan??? We’ve been spilling our blood there for almost 20 years and still don’t have a coherent strategy. The US should have pulled out all our shit, the day after we killed Bin Laden.

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If Trump wins a second term this should be his mission, who give a sh*t what permanent Washington, the swamp, think tanks, Puzzle Palace and the like want:  Just order a phased withdrawal, declare our mission complete (no win or loss mention just done) and publicly order the US military to begin withdrawal one month from announcement and complete in one year.

No one wants to be the President when Kabul falls like Saigon, but our role there is done.  It's just done.  No politician who come up thru the established paths and gets all the associated baggage can do this, it will take an outsider who DGAF what the American Aristocracy thinks and will rip the band aid off. 

Edited by Clark Griswold
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11 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

I think the thing that's most shocking about this is the collective "meh" that's coming from the breaking of this story.  It doesn't seem like anyone in government, military, civilian etc really cares.  We'll just keep spending money and lives in a war that we know is unwinnable because we can't bring ourselves to admit that we've lost. 

I think the collective "meh" is because everyone in the government and military already knew this (maybe not the details, but they knew the mission was a failure and that we were not making progress, that we were pouring money and blood into the country with little to show for it and little accountability).  And the civilians are probably surprised to hear we are still in Afghanistan.

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So we have RPA operations all over the globe, why not open a few additional LREs outside of Afghanistan to keep a lid on the cesspool? We used Uzbekistan prior to 9/11, but I’m not sure how helpful the Pakis will be at this point.

We just “withdrew” from Syria, yet we are targeting guys there today. There’s no reason why we can’t support the government of Afghanistan in the same way by playing whack a mole with the inevitable shitheads that will try to take over the country. It’s not a perfect solution, but lying to the American public for 20 years for no gain has to stop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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14 hours ago, torqued said:

Really drunk but here goes:

Whatever job you're doing, I either want it for the flexibility to enjoy a Monday night like you are...

OR I really don't want it if Monday's are that bad!

Either way, cheers!

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11 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

If Trump wins a second term this should be his mission, who give a sh*t what permanent Washington, the swamp, think tanks, Puzzle Palace and the like want:  Just order a phased withdrawal, declare our mission complete (no win or loss mention just done) and publicly order the US military to begin withdrawal one month from announcement and complete in one year.

No one wants to be the President when Kabul falls like Saigon, but our role there is done.  It's just done.  No politician who come up thru the established paths and gets all the associated baggage can do this, it will take an outsider who DGAF what the American Aristocracy thinks and will rip the band aid off. 

I'll pile on.  I don't think it matters if he does or not! Instead of lame ducking, win or lose he should make the decision.  Announce NLT December 2020 the order to withdrawal, win or lose. 

Bonus points if he does it prior to January 2020.

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5 hours ago, war007afa said:

Whatever job you're doing, I either want it for the flexibility to enjoy a Monday night like you are...

OR I really don't want it if Monday's are that bad!

Either way, cheers!

 

CHeers! Long layover in Vegas. Didn't feel like walking the strip so I was enjoying the happy hour 1/2 price special on 1 Liter drafts at the Hofbrauhaus. The Deep State hasn't called me yet. 😄

 

Edited by torqued
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10 hours ago, war007afa said:

I'll pile on.  I don't think it matters if he does or not! Instead of lame ducking, win or lose he should make the decision.  Announce NLT December 2020 the order to withdrawal, win or lose. 

Bonus points if he does it prior to January 2020.

Concur, set it in motion so it is a done deal.  

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On 3/6/2019 at 5:57 AM, matmacwc said:

Turn the whole thing the KSA into a glass floored, self lit parking lot.  We’d be better off.

 

 

FIFY

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On 12/10/2019 at 8:32 AM, MooseAg03 said:

So we have RPA operations all over the globe, why not open a few additional LREs outside of Afghanistan to keep a lid on the cesspool? We used Uzbekistan prior to 9/11, but I’m not sure how helpful the Pakis will be at this point.

We just “withdrew” from Syria, yet we are targeting guys there today. There’s no reason why we can’t support the government of Afghanistan in the same way by playing whack a mole with the inevitable shitheads that will try to take over the country. It’s not a perfect solution, but lying to the American public for 20 years for no gain has to stop.


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This. I've argued for a long time. Place RPAs over Iraq Syria and Afghanistan in as many numbers as we can muster. This avoids a large ground presence that pisses off the locals and denies the enemy our ground troops to target. Bad guys have hard time massing/moving in any real numbers without risking ordnance on their heads. No more Taliban public executions on the soccer field in Kabul without the threat of justice from above. I would say add a robust SpecOps presence  in the regions to the mix as they can keep to a relatively small footprint but be available to do bad things to bad people.

Edited by fire4effect
Grammor

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15 hours ago, fire4effect said:

This. I've argued for a long time. Place RPAs over Iraq Syria and Afghanistan in as many numbers as we can muster. This avoids a large ground presence that pisses off the locals and denies the enemy our ground troops to target. Bad guys have hard time massing/moving in any real numbers without risking ordnance on their heads. No more Taliban public executions on the soccer field in Kabul without the threat of justice from above. I would say add a robust SpecOps presence  in the regions to the mix as they can keep to a relatively small footprint but be available to do bad things to bad people.

The problem with only spec ops is they rely on general purpose forces as a buffer. If it was solely spec ops they’d get over saturated and most likely burnt out quick.

Edited by Bigred

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22 hours ago, Bigred said:

The problem with only spec ops is they rely on general purpose forces as a buffer. If it was solely spec ops they’d get over saturated and most likely burnt out quick.

I agree you'll need some conventional forces to hold the battle space. I oversimplified a bit. I'm really saying stay away from the megafobs like Balad/LSA Anaconda. Keep the presence in more remote areas consistent with availability of a water supply etc. You'd need at least the capability to handle rotary assets and C130 type aircraft for resupply too. More remote ares also help keep the prying eyes of the locals out of your business. Absolutely on the burnout risk so save them for things like the Baghdadi mission and other HVT missions.

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1 hour ago, fire4effect said:

I agree you'll need some conventional forces to hold the battle space. I oversimplified a bit. I'm really saying stay away from the megafobs like Balad/LSA Anaconda. Keep the presence in more remote areas consistent with availability of a water supply etc. You'd need at least the capability to handle rotary assets and C130 type aircraft for resupply too. More remote ares also help keep the prying eyes of the locals out of your business. Absolutely on the burnout risk so save them for things like the Baghdadi mission and other HVT missions.

So stay there forever with predominantly conventional forces. Got it. 

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