Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[brabus]

56 minutes ago, Duck said:

Any word on the ANG bonus for AGRs?


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It’s at FSS and CCs for each wing. $50k for 3-6 years (11X full time orders, excludes RPA). It’s massively better than the AD bonus, as expected. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by brabus

[StrikeOut312]

I know one guy in the tanker world that did a 365 a few years ago. In the last year, my squadron got 3x 180s—2 guys got stuck with them for ADSC/bonus reasons, 1 guy 7-day opted.

I think it’s disingenuous to completely dog the AF and denigrate folks that stay in. Around the 10-12 year point, the AF is a comfortable, easy job with good pay and benefits. For some folks and their families, sticking around in the AF is the right and easy call. A close friend of mine said that for these guys, the bonus is an entitlement—almost a “thank you” for sticking around.

I know I’m not a golden boy on the path, and I’ve known for at least a couple years I’m probably gonna split when the ADSC is up next summer. The bonus is too little, too late, with too many unknowns—where am I gonna PCS? Where will the AF TDY/deploy folks? What’s the next once-in-a-career thing I’ll experience?

[StoleIt]

5 minutes ago, brabus said:

It’s at FSS and CCs for each wing. $50k for 3-6 years (11X full time orders, excludes RPA). It’s massively better than the AD bonus, as expected. 

Schweet.

Don't happen to have a source/memo for that though? Nobody on my end has heard it.

[brabus]

I only have a screen shot, but will post the actual source when I can get it. 

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, Danger41 said:

The 365 fear is out there but does anyone know anyone that actually got a non-vol 365?

Multiple people. Including a guy who got out at 18 years instead of taking the 365, walked across the street, and joined the reserve unit. 

[SocialD]

57 minutes ago, StrikeOut312 said:

I know one guy in the tanker world that did a 365 a few years ago. In the last year, my squadron got 3x 180s—2 guys got stuck with them for ADSC/bonus reasons, 1 guy 7-day opted.

I think it’s disingenuous to completely dog the AF and denigrate folks that stay in. Around the 10-12 year point, the AF is a comfortable, easy job with good pay and benefits. For some folks and their families, sticking around in the AF is the right and easy call. A close friend of mine said that for these guys, the bonus is an entitlement—almost a “thank you” for sticking around.

I know I’m not a golden boy on the path, and I’ve known for at least a couple years I’m probably gonna split when the ADSC is up next summer. The bonus is too little, too late, with too many unknowns—where am I gonna PCS? Where will the AF TDY/deploy folks? What’s the next once-in-a-career thing I’ll experience?

 

 

One classmate has done a single ops tour and has spent the rest of his career bouncing between Luke and Eglin.  I think he's going to extend/PCA at Eglin to finish his 20.  I get why he stays, hard to leave when you've been shielded from deployments most of your career and the ops tempo is pretty decent.  The rest who have done ops to ops, all bailed to the ANG or just got out after their UPT ADSC.  I have multiple examples of these two tales and they all pretty much have the same result.  ...a tale of two careers.  

 

Break break

1. Airline guys within 5 years of their 20.

2. Airline guys who commute.  

 

The bonus takers in my squadron fall into the two categories above.  The guys in the number 1 category would have stayed regardless of the bonus.  The $50k may have swayed a guy that falls into the the #2 category, though I think his cross country commute to ANC has more to do with that.  

 

 

55 minutes ago, StoleIt said:

Schweet.

Don't happen to have a source/memo for that though? Nobody on my end has heard it.

 

 

PM sent

[Pooter]

4 hours ago, StrikeOut312 said:

I know one guy in the tanker world that did a 365 a few years ago. In the last year, my squadron got 3x 180s—2 guys got stuck with them for ADSC/bonus reasons, 1 guy 7-day opted.

I think it’s disingenuous to completely dog the AF and denigrate folks that stay in. Around the 10-12 year point, the AF is a comfortable, easy job with good pay and benefits. For some folks and their families, sticking around in the AF is the right and easy call. A close friend of mine said that for these guys, the bonus is an entitlement—almost a “thank you” for sticking around.

I know I’m not a golden boy on the path, and I’ve known for at least a couple years I’m probably gonna split when the ADSC is up next summer. The bonus is too little, too late, with too many unknowns—where am I gonna PCS? Where will the AF TDY/deploy folks? What’s the next once-in-a-career thing I’ll experience?

100% agree and I'm not bashing the dudes that want to stay in. If I was on the golden path for school and some joint gig in DC my calculus might change too. Because I'm fairly sure the #1 guy at my base doesn't have to worry about getting sent to Laughlin. 
 

But my point is if the AF wants the bonus to actually do anything for retention it needs to be very convincing money in the short term targeted squarely at the dudes getting out in droves. For the guys on the fence about getting out, taking on an additional 10 year commitment is a literal joke.. for any amount of money. 
 

You solve the retention problem by targeting the middle 50% of dudes and convincing them it's worth their while to stay another 2-3 years. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Pooter

[StrikeOut312]

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

 

You solve the retention problem by targeting the middle 50% of dudes and convincing them it's worth their while to stay another 2-3 years. 

Concur. I think the AF is trying with the base-of-preference tied to the bonus, it’s just too late—and I don’t know how well it’ll work out.

I’d be intrigued by a one year bonus. I’m even intrigued by the possibility of sticking around as a free agent. But Guard/Reserve with a line number addresses the .mil flying and padding the bank account. Or so the old guys on here tell us…

[Ryder1587]

Here’s a serious question.  Why would someone even stay Active Duty after their initial commitment ?  What draw is there ?  I get it for the people who want to lead and are desiring O-6 and beyond. But you can even do that in the Reserves and Guard.  Why would not everyone try to get an AGR gig and pick where you want to live , get the bonus , and have a say in your life ?  I seriously don’t get it.  

[Bigred]

4 hours ago, StrikeOut312 said:

Concur. I think the AF is trying with the base-of-preference tied to the bonus, it’s just too late—and I don’t know how well it’ll work out.

I’d be intrigued by a one year bonus. I’m even intrigued by the possibility of sticking around as a free agent. But Guard/Reserve with a line number addresses the .mil flying and padding the bank account. Or so the old guys on here tell us…

I’m really interested to see what happens in a few years when situations develop like Osprey dudes taking the bonus and choose OCONUS/Hurlburt to avoid Cannon. 
 

 

[Pooter]

3 hours ago, StrikeOut312 said:

Concur. I think the AF is trying with the base-of-preference tied to the bonus, it’s just too late—and I don’t know how well it’ll work out.

I’d be intrigued by a one year bonus. I’m even intrigued by the possibility of sticking around as a free agent. But Guard/Reserve with a line number addresses the .mil flying and padding the bank account. Or so the old guys on here tell us…

Yeah I'd trust the base of preference thing about as far as I can throw AFPC.. which is to say zero

[Danger41]

4 hours ago, Ryder1587 said:

Here’s a serious question.  Why would someone even stay Active Duty after their initial commitment ?  What draw is there ?  I get it for the people who want to lead and are desiring O-6 and beyond. But you can even do that in the Reserves and Guard.  Why would not everyone try to get an AGR gig and pick where you want to live , get the bonus , and have a say in your life ?  I seriously don’t get it.  

Some like it. Some have families and don’t want to leave the steadiness of the job. Some would like to punch but can’t get hired at the local reserve unit. Not sure if you’re being glib but grabbing an AGR job is not nearly as easy as people make it out to be. For example, say you’re from Denver and want to leave AD and join the ANG. Sweet! There’s a F-16 unit there and they’re hiring! You’re not current and qualified Viper IP? Kick rocks. Okay, NBD you can go to USAFA and teach there. Oh you never did that and you’re an average dude that isn’t in the top 100 applicants? Bummer. Cheyenne is pretty close and you could fly Herks! No connection to the unit and not a Herk guy? Line is over here. 
 

Hopefully your mileage varies but it’s not often that easy. Whereas staying AD is easy and safe for a lot of folks. Don’t necessarily think that’s the best reason to stay AD, but not everyone that stays is an idiot and deserves to be shit on. 

[Pooter]

3 hours ago, Bigred said:

I’m really interested to see what happens in a few years when situations develop like Osprey dudes taking the bonus and choose OCONUS/Hurlburt to avoid Cannon. 
 

 

Except you already know what's going to happen. Surprise! Needs of the Air Force. Promising Base of preference on an enterprise level doesn't work when you have objective shitholes that you have to man with people. What happens when every eligible UPT ADO preferences Randolph? Are they just gonna stop manning the UPT bases with majors and above? What happens when every viper driver in existence prefs aviano/spang over holloman? No more b-course I guess. 
 

And if by some wild chance the Air Force does attempt to keep its word to the bonus takers, now they have to try and force free agents to PCS to the Laughlins and cannons and minots of the world, resulting in the same 7 day opt waves we've already seen. 
 

It'll take big blue 6.9 seconds to figure out it's totally unsustainable and turn it off. 
 

 

[Guest nsplayr]

2 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Not sure if you’re being glib but grabbing an AGR job is not nearly as easy as people make it out to be.

YMMV significantly, but in my unit among AGR pilots, the one with the most recent hire date was 2015, and he's the squadron patch. Other than him, the "newest" guy who is an AGR was probably hired in like 2007 as an enlisted dude. You can't just walk into an AGR around here as much as many folks would like to!

Still waiting patiently for someone to die or retire, as god intended for his wayward children the Guard bums 😅

[BeefBears]

BOP flat out will not work in AFSOC. The bonus ADSC is the best way to ensure Cannon manning without a bunch of 7-day opts. 

Personally, I didn't take the bonus and still plan on 20 years AD. The extra money isn't worth having my hands tied. I've seen the AF (and more specifically AFSOC) do some really shitty things to good dudes and they just had to eat the shit sandwich because they took the bonus. 

Don't take the bonus, be a free agent, and leave the reserves/guard/civilian door open even if you don't end up using it. 

[RedEye1911]

17 hours ago, Ryder1587 said:

Here’s a serious question.  Why would someone even stay Active Duty after their initial commitment ?  What draw is there ?  I get it for the people who want to lead and are desiring O-6 and beyond. But you can even do that in the Reserves and Guard.  Why would not everyone try to get an AGR gig and pick where you want to live , get the bonus , and have a say in your life ?  I seriously don’t get it.  

Fear is the #1 reason I've heard.

Most academy and ROTC bros have never had a job outside of the Air Force and are afraid of not having a guaranteed government paycheck.

Another reason is that people can't do math. Zero people make more money by taking the bonus and staying in vs. leaving for an airline. The bonus is only for people that would stay in any way and for those that can't add.

[artvandelay43201]

19 minutes ago, RedEye1911 said:

Fear is the #1 reason I've heard.

Most academy and ROTC bros have never had a job outside of the Air Force and are afraid of not having a guaranteed government paycheck.

Another reason is that people can't do math. Zero people make more money by taking the bonus and staying in vs. leaving for an airline. The bonus is only for people that would stay in any way and for those that can't add.

Right, because OTS guys are the only experienced people outside of the Air Force. 

[tac airlifter]

18 hours ago, Ryder1587 said:

Here’s a serious question.  Why would someone even stay Active Duty after their initial commitment ?  What draw is there ?  

For me, the job AD offered was much better.  When it stopped being fun, I left.  But AGR never appealed to me because I couldn't achieve the same professional goals.  

[Scooter14]

 
Hopefully your mileage varies but it’s not often that easy. Whereas staying AD is easy and safe for a lot of folks. Don’t necessarily think that’s the best reason to stay AD, but not everyone that stays is an idiot and deserves to be shit on. 

Back about 7-8 years ago in my ANG unit we experienced what became known locally as the “Techsodus”…a mass exit of many of our Air Reserve Technician pilots to seemingly greener airline pastures.

A growing bias against the full-time techs took shape. “Dude, how can you stay a Tech? Being a Tech SUUUCKS”

A lot of young guys got swept up in the wave and followed the older techs out the door and it definitely hurt our ability to do business.

One of the DSGs made an observation one day after overhearing these conversations at drill. He said something along the lines of “you guys understand that, in order to exist as a Guard unit, we actually need some people to stay full time right? Like…if EVERYONE goes to the airline then nobody will be left here to build a schedule, create training plans, run a Stan/Eval program…so maybe just consider that as you run down the hallway talking about how much being a fulltimer sucks to all the young guys that look up to you…”

I feel like the same thing is happening today. There is so much hate on the mil meme sites and it’s all a one-sided “ F*** Active Duty! The bonus is for chumps! Come to the Guard and get your line number! If you don’t you’re stupid!”

But…the less Active Duty we have, the less Big AF is able to man UFT and FTU training, deployment taskings, headquarters manning, etc, etc and that hurts the ARC’s ability to train and equip which in turn makes it harder to be a DSG/airline guy.

Bottom line - the airlines are a great deal, but it’s not for everyone and if someone’s beliefs, goals or family situation dictates that it’s better to stay on Active Duty, they shouldn’t automatically be vilified for that decision.

Full Disclosure - I was Active Duty for ~8 years, Guard for 20 as an ART and as a DSG on and off orders.

*Edited to add my censored F bomb back in for effect

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[Runr6730]

42 minutes ago, Scooter14 said:

I feel like the same thing is happening today. There is so much hate on the mil meme sites and it’s all a one-sided “ Active Duty! The bonus is for chumps! Come to the Guard and get your line number! If you don’t you’re stupid!”

 

This.  
 

The loudest voices on the mil meme sites are all echoing the same negative sentiments…”AD sucks, if you stay past your AD commitment you’re an idiot.”  The truth is YMMV.  Personally, when I came up for the bonus I was loving USAF life.  I’d just spent 4 years overseas (a unique opportunity AD affords) and was on staff doing a job I found very fulfilling.  We’ve lived all over the world, flown some amazing missions, met some amazing lifelong friends, and ultimately found where we wanted to settle down in a place I never would’ve imagined living otherwise. Is AD perfect?  Absolutely not, but in general it’s provided me and my family a life filled with adventure.  Don’t make a decision on the bonus or getting out based on what the loudest voices on the internet are espousing…do what you think is best for you and your family. 

[Guest nsplayr]

3 hours ago, BeefBears said:

BOP flat out will not work in AFSOC. The bonus ADSC is the best way to ensure Cannon manning without a bunch of 7-day opts. 

Personally, I didn't take the bonus and still plan on 20 years AD. The extra money isn't worth having my hands tied. I've seen the AF (and more specifically AFSOC) do some really shitty things to good dudes and they just had to eat the shit sandwich because they took the bonus. 

Don't take the bonus, be a free agent, and leave the reserves/guard/civilian door open even if you don't end up using it. 

Amen to this! When you have three bases that are pretty great (Kadena, Mildenhall, Hurlburt) and one that's located in the smelly asshole of America (Cannon), it becomes real hard to honor BOP when you indeed desire to have a full-up Wing at CVS. Who are you gonna send there, all first-tour guys? Can't do that. Bonus takers who you have by the balls like we do now? Oh wait, BOP...yea that's gonna get jettisoned extremely quickly for needs of the Air Force.

Fun story...I was sent to CVS even after 7-day opt! There's an asterisk in that program that says more of less, "Yea but we can also just waive the 24 month retainability clause and send you anyways. Good luck!" Just in case anyone doubts that AFSOC will bone you in the ass raw and repeadetly. In fact, many have at times called the command ASFOC, and personally I think it's fitting.

Good times...I was there for 11 months and was a lame duck with a separation date the first time I stepped into my new SQ/CC's office. PCS'd across the country on Uncle Sam's dime twice in less than 12 months, great use of taxpayer resources for some random, replaceable cog line-dawg O3 there guys!

Don't get me wrong, flying AFSOC missions was amazing and I wouldn't trade the experience for any other. I had a blast, made great friends, killed lots of bad guys, saw the world (well, many of the world's worst places...), etc. BUT, the command's HR policies are atrocious and drive so many good people out of the service entirely rather than accommodating reasonable alternatives for what folks want to do with their careers. Having Cannon doesn't help, I full acknowledge that, and that's our of AFSOC/A1's hands entirely, but they also don't do themselves a single favor ever IMHO. And oh yea, this new fangled BOP is just gonna blow hot air up people's behinds who don't read the fine print and they'll just get sent to Cannon anyways.

[HubZemke]

36 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Who are you gonna send there, all first-tour guys?

Long time lurker crawling out from his rock to finally post…I’d rather be there for my first tour than later in life. Also, if AFSOC stopped treating anyone at Cannon as a second class citizen maybe there wouldn’t be such a stigma associated with the assignment. 
 

I’m also amazed how many times I’ve been asked to go back when there are dudes/dudettes who have never left the salt lyfe…

[Skitzo]

I’m really interested to see what happens in a few years when situations develop like Osprey dudes taking the bonus and choose OCONUS/Hurlburt to avoid Cannon. 
 
 

No more CVs at Hurby soon.


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[Rescuebubba]

Does anyone have any info on the Demo program that’s supposed to get released this summer? My ADSC expires in October 23, so I’m not eligible for the legacy program.  
 

Looking at the eligibility requirements for the demo program based on the 37 USC 334, you need to have no more than three years but no less than one left on your ADSC, so I’m not eligible for that either. They also said in the press release they wouldn’t be offering the legacy AvB in FY24.

So…am I just hosed and won’t have an opportunity for the bonus? I know I’m in the minority, but the money actually does make a difference to me in terms of staying in. 

[SocialD]

22 hours ago, nsplayr said:

YMMV significantly, but in my unit among AGR pilots, the one with the most recent hire date was 2015, and he's the squadron patch. Other than him, the "newest" guy who is an AGR was probably hired in like 2007 as an enlisted dude. You can't just walk into an AGR around here as much as many folks would like to!

Still waiting patiently for someone to die or retire, as god intended for his wayward children the Guard bums 😅

 

 

Then there is my squadron where, for the last 4 or 5 years, we'd ONLY hire you if you were willing to take an AGR gig (we don't technicians anymore) for 2-3 years.  We had no room for DSG's.  Lately, we tend to turn back nearly a years worth of orders every year (or let other positions on base use them)....that's after giving a years worth of orders to guest help for alert.  I think we're on track to do the same this year as well.  Turns out, when you live close to a major hub of an air line in which 40% of your squadron is employed, unless they're within 5 of their 20, few guys want long term orders.

 

 

10 hours ago, Runr6730 said:

I’d just spent 4 years overseas (a unique opportunity AD affords) and was on staff doing a job I found very fulfilling.  

 

 

This isn't to take away from your post, I'm truly happy to hear guys are enjoying AD.  It's more to add clarity about opportunities in the ANG.  Overseas opportunities appear to be aplenty right now in the ANG.  We have one guy who will likely spend 3ish years in USAFE on MPA days to get him across the finish line to a retirement.  We have another guy taking a few months of orders in Hickam, and we were told it could be up to year (possibly indefinite orders) if wanted.  I know 4 other dudes working long term orders OCONUS (mostly USAFE).  There seems to be a bunch of other full time CONUS orders opportunities as well (cough...brabus...). 

 

In the ANG, you also have the BAO gig, which can be a legit opportunity for the family to experience a sleepy overseas assignment.  If I hadn't been trying to get hours ASAP for the airlines, I'd have gladly done the BAO gig for our state partner...2-3 years in Budapest doesn't sound all that bad.  I know another guy who did 2-3 years in Tallinn, Estonia who had a ball.  Having spent 3+ months in Tallinn, I'd have gladly spent 3+ years there.