"The FY20 PB continues the increased maximum payout of $35,000 authorized in the FY17 NDAA."

Problem solved. 

"The FY20 PB continues the increased maximum payout of $35,000 authorized in the FY17 NDAA."

Even at that, the USAF doesn’t auth the full amount for a lot of groups.

Very telling.


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2 hours ago, di1630 said:

Even at that, the USAF doesn’t auth the full amount for a lot of groups.

Very telling.

Yeah. It’s insulting 😂. Their next shortage will be at 20+ YAS as guys who stayed expecting the AF to step up get out as soon as they can to join the club.

60k ends the shortage today. Guaranteed.

But I guess they don’t have a problem anymore since they've stopped requesting a higher AvB.

Edited March 21, 20196 yr by Klepto
Engrish.

At the recent OG council the OGs advocated for max bonus (i.e. $35k for 1 year orders vs. current $15K), A1 concurred on the idea, saying they agreed with the pilot shortage.  FM folks were on board. And then A3 says there isn't a pilot shortage and they don't see a need for increasing bonuses to allowed, full amount.  Un-fucking-believable...the operations guys (e.g. "us") say there isn't a problem, but even the manpower non-operators are saying there's a problem.  Admittedly I generally blamed this stupidity on A1, well turns out it's our own guys backstabbing us.  The ironic thing is I said to my OG a few weeks ago how I had lost all faith in the staff to do anything right (referencing another crucial topic)...well, apparently I can lose more than 100% faith.  

58 minutes ago, brabus said:

At the recent OG council the OGs advocated for max bonus (i.e. $35k for 1 year orders vs. current $15K), A1 concurred on the idea, saying they agreed with the pilot shortage.  FM folks were on board. And then A3 says there isn't a pilot shortage and they don't see a need for increasing bonuses to allowed, full amount.  Un-fucking-believable...the operations guys (e.g. "us") say there isn't a problem, but even the manpower non-operators are saying there's a problem.  Admittedly I generally blamed this stupidity on A1, well turns out it's our own guys backstabbing us.  The ironic thing is I said to my OG a few weeks ago how I had lost all faith in the staff to do anything right (referencing another crucial topic)...well, apparently I can lose more than 100% faith.  

And officially the Aircrew Crisis Task Force has been renamed the Aircrew Task Force. No crisis around here fellas. That and the optics of a no-no word

At the recent OG council the OGs advocated for max bonus (i.e. $35k for 1 year orders vs. current $15K), A1 concurred on the idea, saying they agreed with the pilot shortage.  FM folks were on board. And then A3 says there isn't a pilot shortage and they don't see a need for increasing bonuses to allowed, full amount.  Un-ing-believable...the operations guys (e.g. "us") say there isn't a problem, but even the manpower non-operators are saying there's a problem.  Admittedly I generally blamed this stupidity on A1, well turns out it's our own guys backstabbing us.  The ironic thing is I said to my OG a few weeks ago how I had lost all faith in the staff to do anything right (referencing another crucial topic)...well, apparently I can lose more than 100% faith.  

This is actually more what I would have imagined. The experience I had with O-6s was that they were resentful of the younger crowd for wanting better retention measures. That's not to say they were malicious about it (some were), but even the "great dudes" would push back some in a conversation about why the AF isn't doing enough to keep talent. I suspect that sentiment goes all the way to the top.

Think about it, these are the guys who made it through the air force that was firing people every three years. There was never anybody higher ranking than them who asked what it would take to keep them in. In fact, if they left, it was in line with the Air Force's future manning projections. They basically lived through the hunger games to make it to the top. Now all of a sudden, when they're finally in the position of power they worked oh so hard for, they're told they need to come up with ways to keep a bunch of millennial captains and majors happy, when not a damn person cared about their happiness.

I get why they aren't thrilled with the idea. But that doesn't change the necessity of it.

49 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

There was never anybody higher ranking than them who asked what it would take to keep them in. 

I guess desperate times call for...

increasing UPT throughput to 1500+ and funding diversity measures to access untapped recruiting pools.

Don’t worry folks. Pilot shortage will be solved by 2023. You are expendable once again. Now move along.

3 hours ago, Merle Dixon said:

DAL put $38k into my 401k last year. Each and every one of you has millions of dollars worth of training. The $35k retention bonus is an insult. Imbiciles. Fools.

And how much did you have to contribute for Delta Airlines to give you $38,000 on top of your $130,000-$180,000 second-year pay and 10+ days off a month?

Edited March 21, 20196 yr by Klepto
Siri

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

This is actually more what I would have imagined. The experience I had with O-6s was that they were resentful of the younger crowd for wanting better retention measures...

I get why they aren't thrilled with the idea. But that doesn't change the necessity of it.
 

If only there were a 600 year old, well developed, universally respected [sans the military] field of study that could neutralize emotion and very accurately spit out a number (that would look a lot like the RAND study number) to change behavior in a group. 

Economics in the military: “yeah, yeah... but the value of quality of service is up to you. If it isn’t valuable enough to change your mind, you’re not patriotic enough.” 

Economic behavior is a natural force. Keep trying to defy gravity, big blue. Your experience will watch the show from our new boats.

If only there were a 600 year old, well developed, universally respected [sans the military] field of study that could neutralize emotion and very accurately spit out a number (that would look a lot like the RAND study number) to change behavior in a group. 
Economics in the military: “yeah, yeah... but the value of quality of service is up to you. If it isn’t valuable enough to change your mind, you’re not patriotic enough.” 
Economic behavior is a natural force. Keep trying to defy gravity, big blue. Your experience will watch the show from our new boats.

Only one warning from your post... if it flys, floats or fornicates it’s cheaper to rent than own. I’ve ops tested 2 of the 3 and I’ve found this principle to hold true.


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The retirement benefits what keep the old craniums in, they even screwed that up.

At the recent OG council the OGs advocated for max bonus (i.e. $35k for 1 year orders vs. current $15K), A1 concurred on the idea, saying they agreed with the pilot shortage.  FM folks were on board. And then A3 says there isn't a pilot shortage and they don't see a need for increasing bonuses to allowed, full amount.  Un-ing-believable...the operations guys (e.g. "us") say there isn't a problem, but even the manpower non-operators are saying there's a problem.  Admittedly I generally blamed this stupidity on A1, well turns out it's our own guys backstabbing us.  The ironic thing is I said to my OG a few weeks ago how I had lost all faith in the staff to do anything right (referencing another crucial topic)...well, apparently I can lose more than 100% faith.  

Was this NGB/A3?!

10 hours ago, brabus said:

At the recent OG council the OGs advocated for max bonus (i.e. $35k for 1 year orders vs. current $15K), A1 concurred on the idea, saying they agreed with the pilot shortage.  FM folks were on board. And then A3 says there isn't a pilot shortage and they don't see a need for increasing bonuses to allowed, full amount.  Un-fucking-believable...the operations guys (e.g. "us") say there isn't a problem, but even the manpower non-operators are saying there's a problem.  Admittedly I generally blamed this stupidity on A1, well turns out it's our own guys backstabbing us.  The ironic thing is I said to my OG a few weeks ago how I had lost all faith in the staff to do anything right (referencing another crucial topic)...well, apparently I can lose more than 100% faith.  

You've just now lost faith?  Welcome to the club brosef!  7-8 years ago we had one of these staff lifers show up and be our OG.  Dude made numerous bizarro changes, including making a few of us interview for the jobs we were already in.  Then he informed me that it was no longer an AGR spot but GS-12 Step 1 (massive paycut for me).  That's when my faith went sub-zero and I blasted to the regionals.  In the end, this was the best thing that ever happened to me.  I think that's what got me on so early at Delta, which allowed me to quickly get to be a WB FO.  I've worked 2.5 days (sim training) this month and I'm 99% sure I won't actually step foot in a Delta cockpit this month.  

The staff has a way of creating lifers who rarely step foot outside of Arlington/Crystal city.  Slides are green, it must all be good!  Never mind the handful of fighter squadrons that can't keep 20 pilots on the LOXs and have to work their peoples balls off to make the mission happen.  I'm sure the squadron that only has 17 pilots, and is about to lose 4-5 more, will be just fine!  

BTW, the head of the OG council just finished IOE at his Legacy airline...nothing to see here!

4 hours ago, Gazmo said:

Was this NGB/A3?!

Yep. 

3 hours ago, SocialD said:

You've just now lost faith?

Ha, it’s been draining for quite some time - but this and one other thing pushed me over the edge into sub-zero faith. 

Ha, it’s been draining for quite some time - but this and one other thing pushed me over the edge into sub-zero faith. 

Interesting. Well that has to do with the AGR's. They upped the ART pay, but are converting ARTs to AGR's. If I were an ART in the Step 6+ range, I'd want to stay an ART. $220k per year is possible with a 25% retention bonus. Even with a $35k per year AGR bonus, the ART gig may now be better deal, especially when you can play the "I am a civilian" game after hours and on the weekends and be a free agent when your dream job calls.

I will be discussing my military future with my OG within the next week, which includes my plan to go Cat E way before 20 yrs TOS. NGB has no retention issues at all.... none.

With "standard locality" I'd have to be a step 9 to break even with Maj AGR, even with the 25% bonus.  You must be figuring in a hell of a locality pay (which I'm not saying isn't possible, but by definition location dependent).  And that doesn't include all the ridiculous asspain that goes along with being a technician that doesn't exist as an AGR.  So I'd say you need to be a step 10 to start getting ahead of a Maj AGR...how many O-4s on here who are 13 step 10s?  Bottom line, moving to AGR is the right move...the better move is laughing your way to your next fill-in-the-blank airline trip.

1 hour ago, brabus said:

With "standard locality" I'd have to be a step 9 to break even with Maj AGR, even with the 25% bonus.  You must be figuring in a hell of a locality pay (which I'm not saying isn't possible, but by definition location dependent).  And that doesn't include all the ridiculous asspain that goes along with being a technician that doesn't exist as an AGR.  So I'd say you need to be a step 10 to start getting ahead of a Maj AGR...how many O-4s on here who are 13 step 10s?  Bottom line, moving to AGR is the right move...the better move is laughing your way to your next fill-in-the-blank airline trip.

With the new SSR pilots get 25%(or whatever the multiplier is) + locality  and then the 25% bonus is separate.

 

So the people who were in high locality areas aren't being shafted anymore.

Time is the single most important variable to most of us young-ish types.  We just got a nice jump with  locality and retention bonus on the tech side...but still have 22 open tech jobs and AGRs filling as soon as they open.  I’m “ahead” dollar-for-dollar as an O-5 AGR on the bonus, but the real thing I care about is that every day is a point toward 7300.  If I could make another 25k annually as a tech, I wouldn’t do it.  There’s no end to the tech game and the intangibles, especially medical if something goes wrong, are significant  

Not a whole lot of dudes under 50 want to keep flying for Uncle Sam until they’re almost 60. We want to close out our 20 and move on to a better QOL and put the “What’s wrong with the AF” stuff in the rear-view mirror. 

3 years ago when NGB moved from 25k bonus to 35k bonus. Just before the raise came out NGB A3 was discussing it. Their take on Guard retention was that there wasn’t a problem. (Which I guess I can understand, because of everyone leaving active duty for guard or reserves). But they were actively not only trying to get rid of the tier 2 15k bonus but they were actively trying to get rid of the tier 1 bonus. So I can believe that not much has changed. NGB only has a 35k bonus because active duty does and there is a lot of pressure to keep it. They don’t realize that if they got rid of it that guard pilots would up and leave for part time positions or nothing at all. It simply isn’t worth it without the bonus and really not even then. Most people I know are still contemplating leaving who are on the bonus.

 

On 3/21/2019 at 8:31 AM, Klepto said:

I guess desperate times call for...

increasing UPT throughput to 1500+ and funding diversity measures to access untapped recruiting pools.

Don’t worry folks. Pilot shortage will be solved by 2023. You are expendable once again. Now move along.

The O-6 formerly in charge of the solving the crisis at the Pentagon is quoted as saying, "it's a production problem, not a retention problem." This was about a year ago..

1 hour ago, Seriously said:

The O-6 formerly in charge of the solving the crisis at the Pentagon is quoted as saying, "it's a production problem, not a retention problem." This was about a year ago..

An O-8 just briefed us that “we will produce our way out of the problem.” He also deflected questions about retention. So the AF has that going for it.

An O-8 just briefed us that “we will produce our way out of the problem.” He also deflected questions about retention. So the AF has that going for it.

He’s right. The Air Force has shown that retention is beyond it’s capabilities. BRS means you can walk after your UPT commitment with something. They aren’t willing to/can’t offer higher bonuses.


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He said they attempted, and the other services (namely Army) shot the bonus amount down ($70k)

Why would that matter? An F-22 Pilot is more valuable (money invested already/percentage of the force) in terms of retention than an Army pilot. Tactically, the Apache guy is worth his weight in gold in his role but the Raptor guy is a much rarer commodity and represents a much bigger loss when he isn’t retained.