It’s for those in the MAF who either didn’t get what they wanted out of UPT to go to their first assignment allowing them to “right a wrong” or by wanting to get promoted into leadership and not by flying skill. This is done by:
1. Not be a good pilot.
2. Become an exec.
3. Fly less as a lackluster pilot.
4. Solely upgrade because they’re the Sq/CC’s “HPO.”
5. Cross flow into another MAF aircraft where they won’t fly much because now they’re usually an ADO and solely upgrade for their career progression, not their skill.
Here’s an example of a douchebag Phoenix program product.
https://www.afcent.af.mil/Units/379th-Air-Expeditionary-Wing/Biographies/Article/2274232/colonel-jeremy-e-williams/
Terrible program the promotes terrible aviators into leadership positions.

Damn… is this program to blame for why leadership at the Deid Sucks?


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Hey all, this seems like the appropriate place to ask this question.

I'm an active guy in an older tanker platform and I'm not enjoying it. I'd like to leave the tanker world at the conclusion of this assignment. I'll even go back to UPT for an assignment, but I'd rather still stay on the operational side. I do NOT want to go back to the tanker (or to the KC-46). Are there crossflow opportunities out there for tanker guys? Thanks!

Curious to hear if your tanker location has a big influence on why you want to leave the tank. Or perhaps the people running the place making young co’s hate life. I get it’s an old platform… and sometimes I feel like I am having to use smoke signals to talk to tower vs what the other bros in newer jets have to play with. But overall I like the tank… I am at a chill location with a bunch good bros and gals to fly with. For sure don’t stop being a good bro… and continue to do your best to progress in the jet. I’ve seen plenty of dudes kinda stall out cus they have a chip on their shoulders about not getting the platform they wanted. Don’t let that be you. Stay motivated to progress with what you have while you attack all other options available.

Cheers


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7 hours ago, LiquidSky said:

Any recommendations on how you pitch a crossflow to your cc and/or functional outside of special assignment programs (U2, 89th, Phoenix Reach, etc.)? 

I know there are some petty and small minded commanders who justify your apprehension, and that’s unfortunate.  I believe crossflow (assuming it’s the members choice) is ultimately in the best interest of the Air Force because people do better when they want to be somewhere.  

I recommend simply talking to your boss and functional.  It is a risk, but embrace that risk and be bold.  Here are approaches that will resonate with your CC:

1. In what circumstances would you support a cross flow out of our community?  

2. I desire to cross flow into xxx program because I think that type of service is suited to my skills.  What can I do to receive your endorsement?

Item one allows you to grasp the perspective from their viewpoint.  The goal is information gathering so you can manage expectations and strategize your next approach.

Item two keeps the focus on mission and how you can better serve.  What organization wouldn’t want people to serve in ways which best match their personalities and skills?  Keep it professional, but don’t be afraid to ask direct questions.

I’ve worked a lot of these; here are some observations: you have to be good at your current platform.  Not “ok” and not just good in your mind.  Be in the top 25% strat-wise, but also be actually good at your mission.  Both your commander and functional must agree, as well as the gaining functional (meaning, you need to know their pipeline throughout capacity, what that does to your timing).  Keep a professional attitude and be up front to your commander.

 “Up front” doesn’t mean you have to accept the dictate of your commander if they are the rare petty breed discussed earlier: you can simply tell that person “I’m going to continue to try everything I can to move into XX community.”  But those are rare.  More often I see members trying to be sneaky and play people against each other and end up getting sideways with their commander. Not a good spot to be, the commander is extremely influential in this process but not solely determinative.  Also it matters how you leave your last community to your gaining commander.
 

 My final recommendation is have a specific platform in mind.  Commanders are busy and so are functionals, they aren’t going fishing for you.  Have something specific you want and do your homework on the timing, both your own personal timing (PDE, TOS, upgrades, etc.) and the general timing of new FTU.  “I want to do something different but I don’t know what” is going to get you white jets.  
 

Big picture: be professional, straightforward about your desires and rationale, and be very good at your existing job.  That is how you best position yourself; then luck in timing will hit your plan and who knows what happens.  Good luck, I wish you the best.

2 hours ago, CharlieHotel47 said:

 

Damn… is this program to blame for why leadership at the Deid Sucks?


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He is the epitome of shit leadership in AMC, but never worry, he’ll be a Wing King somewhere. Thankfully, and hopefully, he’ll be blacklisted in the airline/defense industry. I’m sure he’ll open his own “consulting firm” post-retirement.

20 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

Thankfully, and hopefully, he’ll be blacklisted in the airline/defense industry.

 

Tough to do.  Even one of the biggest assholes who sunk many of career, after a concerted blackball campaign at all of this top choices, was still able to make it to one of his last options.  

10 minutes ago, SocialD said:

 

Tough to do.  Even one of the biggest assholes who sunk many of career, after a concerted blackball campaign at all of this top choices, was still able to make it to one of his last options.  

Oh I know, but making it difficult for them makes me happy. One of the biggest assholes I knew in the -135 community made it to FedEx, even tried to run for a union rep, but wasn’t voted in due to his USAF reputation. 

Edited November 27, 20213 yr by Sua Sponte

It’s for those in the MAF who either didn’t get what they wanted out of UPT to go to their first assignment allowing them to “right a wrong” or by wanting to get promoted into leadership and not by flying skill. This is done by:
1. Not be a good pilot.
2. Become an exec.
3. Fly less as a lackluster pilot.
4. Solely upgrade because they’re the Sq/CC’s “HPO.”
5. Cross flow into another MAF aircraft where they won’t fly much because now they’re usually an ADO and solely upgrade for their career progression, not their skill.
Here’s an example of a douchebag Phoenix program product.
https://www.afcent.af.mil/Units/379th-Air-Expeditionary-Wing/Biographies/Article/2274232/colonel-jeremy-e-williams/
Terrible program that promotes terrible aviators into leadership positions.

How did he spend 2 years as a UPT student?!

6 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

How did he spend 2 years as a UPT student?!

 

I’m actually more concerned that tax payers paid for him, via AFIT, to go get a MA in Political Science at ASU.

9 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

How did he spend 2 years as a UPT student?!

 

Maybe it includes casual time?

As much as it can suck being in an airframe/location/community that you don’t enjoy, unfortunately, this is part of the job.  As I’ve always said, we do a disservice to young students in UPT when they compete for airframes/locations and believe they have some control in assignment process, which leads them to think this will always be the case in their careers, which it rarely ever is.  How many of us understood this when competing for a UPT slot and signing a 10 year commitment?  I sure didn’t almost 20 years ago…and I consider myself fortunate that overall its worked out well for me and my family (helps being join spouse).

To the OP, you’ve been given some solid advice, so I won’t echo too much of it.  At the strategic level, I concur that you should be honest with your leadership about goals/desires and always work hard/being humble.  At the tactical level, if it doesn’t look like you can get something decent after your 1st assignment, then I recommend white jets.  Send me an IM if you’d like to chat more.

Good luck and remember that as frustrating as things can be, outside of toxic leadership/horrible community, the job is still better than most.

On 11/27/2021 at 2:20 PM, ThreeHoler said:

 

How did he spend 2 years as a UPT student?!

 

I practically did, going the Navy->Army route...

How did he spend 2 years as a UPT student?!

I took a little over 2 years to complete UPT, between NAS Whiting Field (and sitting in various pools waiting to class up), a PCS to Vance, and a contractor strike at Vance that rolled several class back.
All that after a year of casual as well...

A long term DNIF could also push your UPT time to be fairly long

I promoted to 1st Lt in IFF and I was the only butter bar in my class of 10. 

9 months casual (aka best 9 months of my life)

1 year UPT

1 month break to start IFF

My dad went through UPT in 1969 and was incredulous that we sat around that long. GD hater.

3 mo grad leave (had a tdy en route)
7 mo casual (ASBC, IFT)
12 mo T-37 due to DNIF
6 mo T-44
7 mo FTU
2 mo SERE, leave, PCS
=37 months total from commissioning to arrival at first duty station then another 2 months for MQT

I've flown three different MDSs in my career. Granted the first two occurred within the same 3 year time span and one of those was the temporary year long MC-12 gig. In any case my advice is to change early. I say this due to seeing a lot of peers come to my air frame really late, on their third or even fourth assignment, and it just never panned out for them because they couldn't upgrade before hitting the mid-late major time frame.

 

 

46 minutes ago, contraildash said:

,,, MC-12 gig. 

Stating or writing the name of that MWS should be penalized with a keg to the bar or a head-shave. 

Edited December 19, 20213 yr by HuggyU2

Or both

19 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

Stating or writing the name of that MWS should be penalized with a keg to the bar or a head-shave. 

Go on..? 

Mr Mayor. Point of order. I’d like to open feats of strength MWS version or super drink off as options here. [emoji481]

5 hours ago, dream big said:

Go on..? 

Nah... I have ram dumped that portion of my life and strive to never remember it, save for a few people I got to know. 

On 12/19/2021 at 1:14 PM, Guardian said:

Mr Mayor. Point of order. I’d like to open feats of strength MWS version or super drink off as options here.

On 12/19/2021 at 4:53 PM, HuggyU2 said:

Nah... I have ram dumped that portion of my life and strive to never remember it, save for a few people I got to know. 

Fair enough! I enjoyed my time in the platform, granted it was my first deployment and I was a single Lt..but damn were there some bitter people in that community and I don’t blame them. 

Anyone have any insight on the opportunities to crossflow over to the 46 these days? Curious if a large amount of former KC-10 bros are taking all the open slots as they slowly try to sunset the Gucci life, or if the community is still so undermanned that it's not making a difference.

14 hours ago, LawnDart said:

Anyone have any insight on the opportunities to crossflow over to the 46 these days? Curious if a large amount of former KC-10 bros are taking all the open slots as they slowly try to sunset the Gucci life, or if the community is still so undermanned that it's not making a difference.

46 guy here, talk to your functionals. We've been getting more and more bubbas not on the PDSM.