The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[BashiChuni]

On 7/3/2021 at 8:42 PM, Prozac said:

You’re absolutely correct there. Of course, I couldn’t find a single example of a school district in the United States espousing CRT, but there seem to be plenty that still want to teach creationism, like in Arkansas:

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/apr/08/house-advances-bill-to-let-schools-teach/

The radical conservative agenda has no place in our public schools! 

CRT is being pushed by the largest teachers union in the country. 

[TreeA10]

On 7/3/2021 at 12:03 PM, Waingro said:

Agreed, it doesn't belong. But I doubt Crenshaw or Cotton could accurately describe what CRT actually is. And it isn't in our military, or K-12 curriculum anywhere. This is a culture war Boogeyman with as much factual basis behind it as razor blades in Halloween candy, or the "War on Christmas." Media personalities everywhere are giving airtime to politicians trying to build capital based on CRT fear. 

Crenshaw released an hour long podcast on CRT on Jine 3rd.  Can't recall if he accurately describes it but I'm pretty sure he knows what it is. 

[pawnman]

On 7/3/2021 at 1:03 PM, Waingro said:

Agreed, it doesn't belong. But I doubt Crenshaw or Cotton could accurately describe what CRT actually is. And it isn't in our military, or K-12 curriculum anywhere. This is a culture war Boogeyman with as much factual basis behind it as razor blades in Halloween candy, or the "War on Christmas." Media personalities everywhere are giving airtime to politicians trying to build capital based on CRT fear. 

Can YOU describe what CRT is?

[Lord Ratner]

On 7/3/2021 at 11:42 PM, Prozac said:

You’re absolutely correct there. Of course, I couldn’t find a single example of a school district in the United States espousing CRT, but there seem to be plenty that still want to teach creationism, like in Arkansas:

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/apr/08/house-advances-bill-to-let-schools-teach/

The radical conservative agenda has no place in our public schools! 

 

On 7/3/2021 at 12:03 PM, Waingro said:

Agreed, it doesn't belong. But I doubt Crenshaw or Cotton could accurately describe what CRT actually is. And it isn't in our military, or K-12 curriculum anywhere. This is a culture war Boogeyman with as much factual basis behind it as razor blades in Halloween candy, or the "War on Christmas." Media personalities everywhere are giving airtime to politicians trying to build capital based on CRT fear. 

You were saying?

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/embracing-critical-theory-teachers-union-says-they-control-what-kids-learn

 

At what point do you guys realize that you have no idea what you're talking about? Further, will you recognize that your ignorance is part of the strategy employed by the very movement you seem to believe doesn't exist?

 

[Prozac]

6 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

 

You were saying?

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/embracing-critical-theory-teachers-union-says-they-control-what-kids-learn

 

At what point do you guys realize that you have no idea what you're talking about? Further, will you recognize that your ignorance is part of the strategy employed by the very movement you seem to believe doesn't exist?

 

Teaching critical race theory isn't happening in classrooms, teachers say in survey

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1272945
 

[Pooter]

The thing that pisses me off the most here is that while we all shit-sling about CRT, there actually is a topic that, if you taught it to every child in America, would go a long way in leveling the playing field Democrats are so convinced is systemically unfair.

That topic is called Basics of Personal Finance. 
 

Proposed lesson plans include:

What is interest? How can it work for me and against me?

How does a loan work?

How do credit cards work? 

How do I make a budget?

How much should I save and for what?

What is a retirement plan?

How do I invest my money?

What is appreciation and depreciation?

 

The fact that financial literacy is not regarded as the absolute most important thing to teach in public school has always blown my mind.  I had a substitute teacher play Dave Ramsey videos for a week once in 11th grade, and if I hadn't already been taught most of those concepts by my parents it would have been the most consequential week of education in my life.

 

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Teaching critical race theory isn't happening in classrooms, teachers say in survey

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1272945
 

And yet the NEA just voted for $127k to publicize CRT and $56k for opposition research into people against CRT. 

[Guardian]

On 7/3/2021 at 11:42 PM, Prozac said:

You’re absolutely correct there. Of course, I couldn’t find a single example of a school district in the United States espousing CRT, but there seem to be plenty that still want to teach creationism, like in Arkansas:

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/apr/08/house-advances-bill-to-let-schools-teach/

The radical conservative agenda has no place in our public schools! 

I would 300,000 times rather have a school teach creationism theory over CRT. I would rather kids learn there is a theory that everything was potentially created by a loving God and the science behind it that potentially supports it. Instead of CRT which is a lie and a cult. Super sick and no where in any shape or form based on fact or science and actually calls out to action. Indoctrinates our kids and pushes them to a mean hateful way of life that’s racist. You’re either a victim or a victim created in CRT. Either way is bad and just pure trash.

So consider that a loving God created everything or that it’s ok to discriminate against race sex or creed and that everything our country is founded on is wrong.  You’re not dumber than than the quantifiable smart people or it’s not your fault you don’t have money, you’re oppressed and need the government to support you.  I’m fine with not teaching either to our kids  not interested in creating victims and fostering a racist mentality in our country   

 I can’t believe that our society is even considering this. But this is the same society that is supposedly systematically racist (that minorities in droves come here to join every year) with zero proof or evidence.  We are just supposed to now after 60 years of being told measure a man by his character and it’s wrong to judge him by the color of his skin, sex, creed to a mentality that says it’s ok to discriminate based on race, sex, or creed. It’s sick and un-American.  

Edited July 8, 2021 by Guardian

[Guardian]

“Bigotry of low expectations. Who wants their kids to be told they can’t succeed?”

Edited July 8, 2021 by Guardian

[Guardian]

Teaching critical race theory isn't happening in classrooms, teachers say in survey
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1272945
 

Surveys and believing someone just because they have a credential is a logical fallacy.  Argument or debate isn’t just because of opinion or because I said so. If CRT or tenants of CRT are being taught in even one school in this country then your argument self destructs.  
 
anyone know anywhere CRT is being taught or CRT theories or constructs? Or is Prozac’s survey good enough?  No evidence needed?  Case closed. 

[lloyd christmas]

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

I would 300,000 times rather have a school teach creationism theory over CRT. I would rather kids learn there is a theory that everything was potentially created by a loving God and the science behind it that potentially supports it. Instead of CRT which is a lie and a cult. Super sick and no where in any shape or form based on fact or science and actually calls out to action. Indoctrinates our kids and pushes them to a mean hateful way of life that’s racist. You’re either a victim or a victim created in CRT. Either way is bad and just pure trash.

You are seeing the classic deny, deny, counter-accuse tactic used on this thread by some on the left.  They’ve denied CRT exists.  They’ve denied CRT is being taught in schools.   And they’ve followed up with a irrelevant creationism argument.  Teaching creationism or personal finance has absolutely nothing to do with CRT.  It’s all about the pivot when you know you can’t defend your side’s position. 

CRT is the next step in the process of demonizing straight white men.  It’s designed to create division and resentment for future generations.  I’ve said in previous comments that we’ve gone from Nazi’s to white supremacists to now the entire country and system is based on oppression and racism.  As some have pointed out, CRT isn’t about simply teaching history - the good and the bad.  It’s about creating a narrative that our country is fundamentally flawed and must be changed.  And it was exposed because of COVID.  Parents were able to listen to what their kids teachers were saying while on classroom zoom calls.  

I’m glad parents are standing up to this garbage.  I think we are going to see a lot more people pushing back, in many different arenas and over many different topics.  The progressive left is absolutely out of control.  This is all becoming an argument of right vs wrong or good vs evil and not just differing political views.  

Edited July 8, 2021 by lloyd christmas

[Guardian]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/school-districts-whiteness-contract-book

Survey says?

[Day Man]

14 hours ago, Guardian said:

I would rather kids learn there is a theory that everything was potentially created by a loving God and the science behind it

lol, I would love to see that "science"...

and if you're ok with teaching that "theory", what's wrong with teaching other theories? 

 

[dream big]

14 hours ago, lloyd christmas said:

You are seeing the classic deny, deny, counter-accuse tactic used on this thread by some on the left.  They’ve denied CRT exists.  They’ve denied CRT is being taught in schools.   And they’ve followed up with a irrelevant creationism argument.  Teaching creationism or personal finance has absolutely nothing to do with CRT.  It’s all about the pivot when you know you can’t defend your side’s position. 

CRT is the next step in the process of demonizing straight white men.  It’s designed to create division and resentment for future generations.  I’ve said in previous comments that we’ve gone from Nazi’s to white supremacists to now the entire country and system is based on oppression and racism.  As some have pointed out, CRT isn’t about simply teaching history - the good and the bad.  It’s about creating a narrative that our country is fundamentally flawed and must be changed.  And it was exposed because of COVID.  Parents were able to listen to what their kids teachers were saying while on classroom zoom calls.  

I’m glad parents are standing up to this garbage.  I think we are going to see a lot more people pushing back, in many different arenas and over many different topics.  The progressive left is absolutely out of control.  This is all becoming an argument of right vs wrong or good vs evil and not just differing political views.  

https://dailycaller.com/2021/07/08/mark-green-critical-race-theory-air-force-academy-mark-milley/
 

Hopefully this isn’t just a PR stunt and they mean business.  The Air Force’s Marxist and racist teachings have congressional visibility and not in a good way.  Enough of this racist and hypocritical nonsense!!

[Pooter]

@lloyd christmas

-not on the left

-not trying to deny/deflect

-also agree critical race theory is trash

Just chill for a sec and you might realize im agreeing with you. And my proposing personal finance education was a dig at democrats because it would do way more to achieve their "equity" goals than CRT would.  You create upward mobility in society by teaching self-sufficiency rather than perpetual victimhood.

 

@dream big

As for creationism over CRT, I'm not sure what good teaching one brand of nonsense over another would accomplish. Especially because there are some pretty nasty implications that follow if you accept the premise that an omnipotent god created everything.  

Edited July 9, 2021 by Pooter

[bfargin]

23 minutes ago, Pooter said:

 

@dream big

As for creationism over CRT, I'm not sure what good teaching one brand of nonsense over another would accomplish. Especially because there are some pretty nasty implications that follow if you accept the premise that an omnipotent god created everything.  

We teach all kinds of nonsense currently (e.g. evolution, psychology is a science (we just call it a "soft" science), people are equal, etc.). The real nonsense is believing that the world was spontaneously formed by accident (out of stuff that magically happened to be around) and happened to fall together perfectly in the exact location in the universe where it could maintain stability. I saw an article a few years back where some top mathematicians did the analysis of probability of this occurring, and the number was a decimal followed by 40 zeros before the first nonzero digit. So it's definitely more intellectually honest and not nonsense to believe in a creator of some kind (even the made believe flying-spaghetti-monster is more intellectually honest than self initiated big bang ).

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, bfargin said:

We teach all kinds of nonsense currently (e.g. evolution, psychology is a science (we just call it a "soft" science), people are equal, etc.). The real nonsense is believing that the world was spontaneously formed by accident (out of stuff that magically happened to be around) and happened to fall together perfectly in the exact location in the universe where it could maintain stability. I saw an article a few years back where some top mathematicians did the analysis of probability of this occurring, and the number was a decimal followed by 40 zeros before the first nonzero digit. So it's definitely more intellectually honest and not nonsense to believe in a creator of some kind (even the made believe flying-spaghetti-monster is more intellectually honest than self initiated big bang ).

Even if you don't believe in the Big Bang...that's a separate issue from evolution, which has very robust evidence and a ton of real-world examples.

[Ryder1587]

6 hours ago, bfargin said:

We teach all kinds of nonsense currently (e.g. evolution, psychology is a science (we just call it a "soft" science), people are equal, etc.). The real nonsense is believing that the world was spontaneously formed by accident (out of stuff that magically happened to be around) and happened to fall together perfectly in the exact location in the universe where it could maintain stability. I saw an article a few years back where some top mathematicians did the analysis of probability of this occurring, and the number was a decimal followed by 40 zeros before the first nonzero digit. So it's definitely more intellectually honest and not nonsense to believe in a creator of some kind (even the made believe flying-spaghetti-monster is more intellectually honest than self initiated big bang ).

If time is infinite then it doesn’t matter the odds because at some point it could happen.  That opens up a whole list of other topics such as multi verses , simulations , etc.   But to say oh the odds are so low so there must be a creator is confirmation bias.  There are several ways it could have happened and the real answer most likely we can’t even fathom.  Humans can’t understand 1,000 years. Try understanding a billion.  Our brains are made for short term thoughts , ie a lifetime. 

[Guardian]

Is that why the age of the universe keeps increasing? Carbon dating can’t go back that far. Is it because science can’t explain the really really low probability number and just keeps increasing the age to justify making it possible?

Pretty sure the odds take into account age and the probability of it ever happening. Not just at any given point.

[BashiChuni]

41 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Even if you don't believe in the Big Bang...that's a separate issue from evolution, which has very robust evidence and a ton of real-world examples.

Biggest misconception out there. No evidence of fish becoming apes then humans. 
 

Fossil record simply doesn’t exist.

still the THEORY of evolution. 

[pawnman]

13 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Biggest misconception out there. No evidence of fish becoming apes then humans. 
 

Fossil record simply doesn’t exist.

still the THEORY of evolution. 

Your strawman path? Sure. Plenty of evidence for moths changing colors, wolves becoming dogs, fish adapting to fresh or salt water, bacteria and viruses adapting to new hosts...

[Lord Ratner]

12 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Biggest misconception out there. No evidence of fish becoming apes then humans. 
 

Fossil record simply doesn’t exist.

still the THEORY of evolution. 

And yet, mountains of evidence more than their is for any story of creationism. 

 

Religious people do much better using a faith-based argument than a science-based one. And they really shouldn't push for teaching their religion in public school, because CRT is becoming the religion of the progressives. And it's got about the same level of scientific support.

[Guardian]

Your strawman path? Sure. Plenty of evidence for moths changing colors, wolves becoming dogs, fish adapting to fresh or salt water, bacteria and viruses adapting to new hosts...

Darwin even said in that his theory should be supported by the fossil record and that record should be plentiful. So far, not so much.

[Guardian]

And yet, mountains of evidence more than their is for any story of creationism. 
 
Religious people do much better using a faith-based argument than a science-based one. And they really shouldn't push for teaching their religion in public school, because CRT is becoming the religion of the progressives. And it's got about the same level of scientific support.

I usually agree with you. But I would guess you haven’t really studied or read on what it is creationism says and the evidence those who support it use to back it. CRT is in no way founded in science or truth.

Not advocating for creationism to be taught in schools. Just saying your claims on it need a little rethought because it isn’t baseless like CRT.

I don’t think anyone has advocated for creationism to be taught in schools in this thread . Just using a comparison saying that one isn’t violent or uprooting everything our country believes in but the other does and somehow is already being taught in parts or in whole in public school and it’s wrong and sick.

[Lord Ratner]

23 minutes ago, Guardian said:

I usually agree with you. But I would guess you haven’t really studied or read on what it is creationism says and the evidence those who support it use to back it. CRT is in no way founded in science or truth.

Not advocating for creationism to be taught in schools. Just saying your claims on it need a little rethought because it isn’t baseless like CRT.

I don’t think anyone has advocated for creationism to be taught in schools in this thread . Just using a comparison saying that one isn’t violent or uprooting everything our country believes in but the other does and somehow is already being taught in parts or in whole in public school and it’s wrong and sick.

I completely agree with what you said (creationism is inoffensive compared to CRT), but then again, I wasn't responding to you.

 

However the claim that creationism has more scientific support than evolution is lunacy. And since the big bang was bought up as well, there's zero evidence for the seven day creation story, and a decent (though by no means conclusive) set of evidence for the big bang.

 

I'm familiar with the mental gymnastics some do to reconcile the literal word of the bible with science. And I'm quite happy to discuss/debate it if you want, but let's move it to a new thread. Creationism is almost entirely harmless historical storytelling (IMO). CRT is a terrible threat if it blossoms. Both are religion, and not all religions are equal.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Lord Ratner