The Next President is...

[slackline]

I listened to about 30 minutes before falling asleep (it was riveting...) and they both suck. Joe wasn’t incredibly articulate, but I didn’t think it was from being lost or confused. I’m no Dr though. It seemed like frustration. Trump would get eaten alive on this forum as he makes all sorts of outrageous, unproven claims without citing jack all... Guardian and Lord Ratner would be constantly saying “disingenuous!” or “straw man” to him because that’s what he does...

No needle movement whatsoever. Two politicians (as much as Trump claims he’s not, it took him about 4 years to turn into what he rails against) doing what they do. Claiming what they are going to do, or what they have done.


For whoever said vote for VP, that’s a clear cut choice, I wholeheartedly disagree. Pence seems like a hollow shell of a man. No character, and for someone as religious as he claims to be, I see it as a problem to just sit there, quiet, while one of the most seemingly immoral men we’ve ever had as sitting POTUS does what he does and says what he says. Both VPs are horrendous as well.

Maybe I’ll give Kanye the nod...


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[ClearedHot]

14 hours ago, lloyd christmas said:

The dirty career officials in the FBI really left the FBI in a bad spot after the Comey news conference in 2016 declaring Hillary innocent.  I doubt they will speak out pre-election for fear of having the same thing happen again.  And like you said, it is an ongoing investigation.  

Which sets the stage for impeaching Joe should he be elected.  Let's be clear, the radical elements of the DNC fele empowered and will play any game to push the pendulum as far to the left as possible.  There are two gaming being played.  First, at all costs remove Donald Trump.  Second and more importantly, play long ball and transform this country into a socialist utopia.  Notice how Quiet AOC +3 have been?  If Joe wins watch them begin to leverage against Biden and Promote Harris.

[Lord Ratner]

6 hours ago, slackline said:

I listened to about 30 minutes before falling asleep (it was riveting...) and they both suck. Joe wasn’t incredibly articulate, but I didn’t think it was from being lost or confused. I’m no Dr though. It seemed like frustration. Trump would get eaten alive on this forum as he makes all sorts of outrageous, unproven claims without citing jack all... Guardian and Lord Ratner would be constantly saying “disingenuous!” or “straw man” to him because that’s what he does...

No needle movement whatsoever. Two politicians (as much as Trump claims he’s not, it took him about 4 years to turn into what he rails against) doing what they do. Claiming what they are going to do, or what they have done.


For whoever said vote for VP, that’s a clear cut choice, I wholeheartedly disagree. Pence seems like a hollow shell of a man. No character, and for someone as religious as he claims to be, I see it as a problem to just sit there, quiet, while one of the most seemingly immoral men we’ve ever had as sitting POTUS does what he does and says what he says. Both VPs are horrendous as well.

Maybe I’ll give Kanye the nod...


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Have I ever defended Trump as honest or consistent? I think I've been pretty consistent that he's awful. I look at results, because I haven't had faith in the humans that go to Washington for a long time. The presidential results are shockingly good compared to how shockingly bad the actual presidential human is. If I voted on personality I would go for Biden then be shocked (shocked I tell you) that he was making money from his drug addict soon selling their name to the worst countries on Earth.

 

As for Pence, completely disagree. He's boring, but he's also the only one of the four who has any philosophical basis backing his positions, and he's also the only one who is actually a good person. Best case scenario is Trump wins, then steps down on Jan 2nd.

[GrndPndr]

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

<snip>

As for Pence, completely disagree. He's boring, but he's also the only one of the four who has any philosophical basis backing his positions, and he's also the only one who is actually a good person. Best case scenario is Trump wins, then steps down on Jan 2nd.

And I was thinking that the best 'scenario' would be a no-holds-barred double-header, with Harris v. Pence followed by the main event - Trump v. Biden.  Lots of bandages and ice (and beer) will be needed, but the entertainment factor - wow.

The whole thing is just f*cking sad of course.

Edited October 23, 2020 by GrndPndr
Words obviously confuse me sometimes

[Guardian]

Dual to the death! Oil and diapers for the main event. 15 second rounds with 30 min naps. Or instead of naps, just long enough to administer a shot of whatever Biden has been taking for both.

[slackline]

Have I ever defended Trump as honest or consistent? I think I've been pretty consistent that he's awful. I look at results, because I haven't had faith in the humans that go to Washington for a long time. The presidential results are shockingly good compared to how shockingly bad the actual presidential human is. If I voted on personality I would go for Biden then be shocked (shocked I tell you) that he was making money from his drug addict soon selling their name to the worst countries on Earth.
 
As for Pence, completely disagree. He's boring, but he's also the only one of the four who has any philosophical basis backing his positions, and he's also the only one who is actually a good person. Best case scenario is Trump wins, then steps down on Jan 2nd.

Reading comprehension guys. It's important.

I cited you because you wouldn't put up with the ridiculously poor and bogus arguments Trump makes. Not because you defended him ever. It was a hypothetical, fake scenario.

Agree to disagree. Opinion warning and it probably is controversial in an environment where everyone seems to think this admin is infallible: Pence strikes me as incredibly self-righteous. I don't understand Christians that hate on LGBTQ, or aren't compassionate towards people that suffer oppression at the hands of others. Christ never "hated" on anyone for being different or even doing stuff he said they shouldn't (except the money changers in the temple), but evangelicals can be some pretty hateful people "in the name of Christ" at times. Don't get it.

Not trying to convince anyone or change their minds. The above was my opinion only, and what better place to share it than the internet... I'd love for people to change their minds or even just be open to it, but I'm a realist...


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[Negatory]

As someone who is, at least policy wise, leaning towards voting for Biden, I have to agree with Lord Ratner. When it comes down to VP vs VP, Pence is the one who seems like he has a moral compass and tries to stick to it, even if I don’t agree with some of his ideas.

Harris comes across as extremely condescending and motivated by stupid shit like wokeness or dog whistle racism bs. I really didn’t like her act in their debate.

[slackline]

Let me also say, I think Harris is lousy and I would never vote for her. This is truly the most difficult vote I've ever participated in...


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[Lord Ratner]

2 hours ago, slackline said:

Reading comprehension guys. It's important.

I cited you because you wouldn't put up with the ridiculously poor and bogus arguments Trump makes. Not because you defended him ever. It was a hypothetical, fake scenario.

Agree to disagree. Opinion warning and it probably is controversial in an environment where everyone seems to think this admin is infallible: Pence strikes me as incredibly self-righteous. I don't understand Christians that hate on LGBTQ, or aren't compassionate towards people that suffer oppression at the hands of others. Christ never "hated" on anyone for being 
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Perhaps you and Guardian are more alike than you think.

 

I guess I don't get the Pence thing. I'm atheist, yet I'm not confused by Christians who stands opposed to homosexuality. I disagree, of course, and have been pro-gay-marriage since I was in school, but is it really confusing when people follow the doctrine of their religion, as they have been doing for a couple thousand years?

 

Find me one example of Pence treating a homosexual poorly. Same goes for Romney. Two better men than 99% of the political class, yet maligned for a widely held and peaceful belief... You call it "hate" the same way many on the left misuse "racist" as an attack. The words matter. Policy and philosophy differences are not hate.

 

You can be against illegal immigration without hating immigrants. You can be against the second amendment without hating gun owners. And you can be against gay marriage without hating on the gays.

 

I can never tell if you are intentionally obtuse or not. On the one hand you immediate locate and call out logical fallacies or unsupported hyperbole in other people's posts. But then you fill your own posts with the same. It's confusing. But I'm easily confused 🤷‍♂️

[Guardian]

Perhaps you and Guardian are more alike than you think.

Yeah!!!! Take that!

Wait.....WTF?

[Negatory]

I mean, Pence has definitely treated gay people poorly, literally trying to take away basic rights. Just cause he didn’t literally punch one of them in the face doesn’t mean he didn’t treat them poorly.

2000: During his congressional campaign, Mike Pence said, “Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.”
2004: Mike Pence co-sponsored a proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would define marriage as solely between one man and one woman.

Many more...

[ViperMan]

On 10/22/2020 at 2:13 PM, Lord Ratner said:

I always found this argument amazing. My wife and I make restaurant-quality food 5/7 nights a week, and it's usually between $5-10 in ingredients per person. And we only buy meat from whole foods. What are people buying at grocery stores that's more expensive than restaurants? Filet mignon?

Yeah I know, I can buy like 3-4 chicken breasts for less than $5. If I make rice with it, that's full sustenance for a few days. It's not "great" eating, but that's not what we're talking about.

People just like to dress up excuses nowadays.

[Homestar]

54 minutes ago, Negatory said:

During his congressional campaign, Mike Pence said, “Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.”

This was the opinion of, like, a loooot of people back in 2000. A lot has changed since then. 

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

I mean, Pence has definitely treated gay people poorly, literally trying to take away basic rights. Just cause he didn’t literally punch one of them in the face doesn’t mean he didn’t treat them poorly.

2000: During his congressional campaign, Mike Pence said, “Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.”
2004: Mike Pence co-sponsored a proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would define marriage as solely between one man and one woman.

Many more...

Cussing out the waitress is treating people poorly. Kicking a dog is treating animals poorly. Brake checking cars on the highway for fun is treating people poorly.

 

What's next, he's sexist for not having dinner alone with women who aren't his wife?

 

Having a completely mainstream opinion on the nature of marriage (that I personally disagree with) is not the same. 

 

This is the *perfect* illustration of why so many conservatives are at odds with the left, and stuck voting for Trump. Run-of-the-mill liberals conflate things like a stance on gay marriage with treating gay people poorly. Being against illegal immigration is xenophobia. Being against abortion is anti-woman. Being against lockdowns is anti-science.

 

The problem is that now the conservatives (voters, not politicians) are adopting the same strategy, all exacerbated by social media bubbles. Not good for anyone.

[Prozac]

2 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Cussing out the waitress is treating people poorly. Kicking a dog is treating animals poorly. Brake checking cars on the highway for fun is treating people poorly.

 

What's next, he's sexist for not having dinner alone with women who aren't his wife?

 

Having a completely mainstream opinion on the nature of marriage (that I personally disagree with) is not the same. 

 

This is the *perfect* illustration of why so many conservatives are at odds with the left, and stuck voting for Trump. Run-of-the-mill liberals conflate things like a stance on gay marriage with treating gay people poorly. Being against illegal immigration is xenophobia. Being against abortion is anti-woman. Being against lockdowns is anti-science.

 

The problem is that now the conservatives (voters, not politicians) are adopting the same strategy, all exacerbated by social media bubbles. Not good for anyone.

Disagree. Pushing your particular religious views onto the population as a whole is anathema to American values. No one is forcing Mike Pence to marry a man. No serious person is suggesting that his relIgion should change it’s beliefs. He is free to practice as he sees fit. Actively attempting to deny an entire segment of the population of rights the rest of us enjoy is certainly treating them poorly and is a shitty position to take. 

[dream big]

53 minutes ago, Homestar said:

This was the opinion of, like, a loooot of people back in 2000. A lot has changed since then. 

Agreed...including your 44th President: Barack Hussein Obama, until Summer 2012, right before his re election.  Who was his VP?  So please liberals ...spare us the self righteous BS.

[FLEA]

3 hours ago, Prozac said:

Disagree. Pushing your particular religious views onto the population as a whole is anathema to American values. No one is forcing Mike Pence to marry a man. No serious person is suggesting that his relIgion should change it’s beliefs. He is free to practice as he sees fit. Actively attempting to deny an entire segment of the population of rights the rest of us enjoy is certainly treating them poorly and is a shitty position to take. 

Marriage is a religious institution though. It should have never been recognized by the government to begin with. That's your real issue. 

[kaputt]

5 hours ago, dream big said:

Agreed...including your 44th President: Barack Hussein Obama, until Summer 2012, right before his re election.  Who was his VP?  So please liberals ...spare us the self righteous BS.

Beat me to it, but exactly. How easily people forget this. 
 

 

[Lord Ratner]

I'd like to add something here. I wish you non-AA pilots could take a peek at the political threads on our union message board. Seriously, BaseOps is some of the best, most respectful, nuanced dialog I've seen online. If everyone was as curious and calm as the folks here, the US would be in a great spot. Trump wouldn't be president and Biden wouldn't be the (D) candidate.

 

I hope the perspectives shared here are making it into real world conversations

Edited October 24, 2020 by Lord Ratner

[slackline]

This was the opinion of, like, a loooot of people back in 2000. A lot has changed since then. 

Show me where Pence has done anything to change his opinion.


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[slackline]

Perhaps you and Guardian are more alike than you think.
 
I guess I don't get the Pence thing. I'm atheist, yet I'm not confused by Christians who stands opposed to homosexuality. I disagree, of course, and have been pro-gay-marriage since I was in school, but is it really confusing when people follow the doctrine of their religion, as they have been doing for a couple thousand years?
 
Find me one example of Pence treating a homosexual poorly. Same goes for Romney. Two better men than 99% of the political class, yet maligned for a widely held and peaceful belief... You call it "hate" the same way many on the left misuse "racist" as an attack. The words matter. Policy and philosophy differences are not hate.
 
You can be against illegal immigration without hating immigrants. You can be against the second amendment without hating gun owners. And you can be against gay marriage without hating on the gays.
 
I can never tell if you are intentionally obtuse or not. On the one hand you immediate locate and call out logical fallacies or unsupported hyperbole in other people's posts. But then you fill your own posts with the same. It's confusing. But I'm easily confused

Please, show me how I’m misinterpreting what you said, and therefore “educating” you... You seemed to take offense to something that wasn’t said, so I clarified because you and Guardian are definitely alike in your seeming love to “educate” people from some position of perceived superiority. Honestly, it was a compliment. I should have been more generous with the praise first. Often, guys like you and Guardian do a great job holding people to high standards. Occasionally, you seem to come from some invisible high horse and ignore what people have actually said in some perceived attempt at showing everyone just how brilliant you are. You’re doing it right now... Your passive aggressive comments like, “I can never tell if you are intentionally obtuse...” are perfect examples.

Please, highlight my logical fallacies and unsupported hyperbole in the (acknowledged in my post) opinion above...

To answer one of your criticisms: I liken it to hate (I think hate is fairly strong, and most people don’t truly hate IMHO), never called it hate. My apologies for using the term “hate on” in this case. I think hating on something is different than hating something, but I don’t know a similar term thatto use that, as easily, gets the same idea across.

I made my point about Christ because he never specifically tried to limit people’s actions. He educated, counseled, encouraged, but never forced anyone to obey him. I fail to see how laws limiting who someone is allowed to marry isn’t oppression. I also, from a religious perspective, don’t agree with the LGBTQ community, but until they try to come around and start hurting other people’s lives, I don’t think the government has any place imposing its will on them. Pence disagrees on the semantics of the word marriage? Fine, allow civil unions that hold equal rights as a religious marriage... Easy, peasy.

Gay marriage is very different than second amendment or illegal immigration issues, so this is 100% an instance of you falsely correlating these things to try and slip your point across.

Explain to me, outside of religious terms, how gay marriage infringes on the safety, or rights of others, or unfairly taxes straight people. I can show you how a stance against immigration or guns points to people’s safety and/or rights. I happen to be in favor of gun rights, but think the conversation needs to be had on how to stop mentally ill people from accessing them. I happen to be in favor of ending illegal immigration, but don’t agree that it should be as difficult or as expensive for people to naturalize.

Pence could be an amazing member of whatever congregation he belongs to. I don’t think Pence is a bad person at all. I know lots of great members of my church. That doesn’t mean I want their rigidly unbending ideas on the world governing how I live my life...

If you think liberals are the ones that hate Romney now, I suggest you drive up and down I-15 in UT where there are billboards wishing him to go away. Paid for by conservatives because he’s openly opposed Trump...

Once again, I’m not trying to convince you to change your mind. Just showing where I perceive you’re being disingenuous. Notice the word perceive and perception. I use it a lot because I can never be sure I am fully understanding what people are saying on the WWW. Maybe I’m the one with reading comprehension issues, but that’s how your posts come across to me. The fact that baseops.net is an echo chamber for people who think similarly to you emboldens you to continue “educating” people. Keep calling me, or inferring that I’m a liberal. Doesn’t hurt my feelings. I feel like I’m in a tiny group of conservatives who sees this Admin for what it really is, a danger not only to our country, but the world. That’s two people (you and me) who think they’re each on the right side of an opinion. That’s all most of this is, an opinion...

I wholeheartedly agree with you that all of this is incredibly beneficial dialogue, and it needs to continue.


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[Sim]

https://youtu.be/04nqez0IvvY?t=2224

About 2 days old Interview with Rudi Giuliani that describes all of the finding so far of the Biden's crime family. 

People voting for Biden - watch to see whom you're voting for. 

 

 

(это пропагандистское послание было доставлено вам вашим дружелюбным офицером ГРУ.)

Edited October 24, 2020 by Sim

[Prozac]

9 hours ago, FLEA said:

Marriage is a religious institution though. It should have never been recognized by the government to begin with. That's your real issue. 

I agree 100%. We could start a whole thread on how outdated the idea that the government should be incentivizing marriage is. 

[Negatory]

9 hours ago, FLEA said:

Marriage is a religious institution though. It should have never been recognized by the government to begin with. That's your real issue. 

Sure. Another solution would be to get rid of the governmental benefits of marriage for straight people, but I dont see a lot of advocacy for that for some reason.

You can’t financially and legally marginalize human beings and say that you aren’t treating them poorly. If the argument was “marriage is a religious ceremony, so we will disband that as a government entity. Everyone is entitled to the governmental benefits of a union so we support the union regardless of your sexuality.” But the right wing would rather further entrench religion into politics.

I was fed the same BS and felt similarly to you all on this until my sibling came out as gay. It changes your perspective on what is malicious and what isn’t.
 

I assume you guys aren’t for sharia law (although guardian probably takes offense to me assuming this), but it is a totally reasonable and understood opinion of society for a huge part of the world, so we should respect that amirite?

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

I'd like to add something here. I wish you non-AA pilots could take a peek at the political threads on our union message board. Seriously, BaseOps is some of the best, most respectful, nuanced dialog I've seen online. If everyone was as curious and calm as the folks here, the US would be in a great spot. Trump wouldn't be president and Biden wouldn't be the (D) candidate.

 

I hope the perspectives shared here are making it into real world conversations

My union forum had to shut down any and all political speech. It’s amazing how low grown men and women will go, thinking they are getting their point across. One of the reasons I would support mandatory national service is that it mixes people from all walks of life and forces them to work together. Along the way, you learn to respect differences in opinion and culture, even though you may not share them. We need more of that right now.