The Next President is...

[dream big]

8 hours ago, nsplayr said:

The only people who talk about and wishcast a civil war are on the right.

Law enforcement is not fomenting a civil war. You can’t just “Ooh, look what you made me do” into a civil war.

Clearly you’ve never met anyone from Antifa or Black Lives Matter 

[Guest nsplayr]

10 minutes ago, dream big said:

Clearly you’ve never met anyone from Antifa or Black Lives Matter 

Correct! They are not a big force in the country at large. I am way more involved in democratic politics than average and have never met someone who would describe those groups as one of their primary identities. I’m glad we agree. 

[BashiChuni]

43 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Correct! They are not a big force in the country at large. I am way more involved in democratic politics than average and have never met someone who would describe those groups as one of their primary identities. I’m glad we agree. 

who is funding those groups...it's not republicans...

[FourFans]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

who is funding those groups...it's not republicans...

Primarily democratic politicans and democrat supporters...oh, and SVB.  Shocking.

Presumably @nsplayr if he's 'way more involved in democratic politics.'  Unless he meant that as a little d democratic, not a big D Democrat.

BTW nsplayr, just because you haven't met them, doesn't mean they don't exist.  BLM made enough money for the shady purchase of a $6M mansion with donation money.  That's not insignificant, but it is highly corrupt...and largely funded by your party.  Accountability much?

Edited March 19, 2023 by FourFans

[O Face]

12 hours ago, FourFans said:

I have to agree with @nsplayr on this one point: We're nowhere near a civil war.  Such a thing would involve a vast majority of the population.  Right now I would argue that 10% or less of the US population composes the highly vocal left and right.  

Civil unrest?  More likely.

If we can elect some leadership that moderate and actually has some form of wisdom in their decision making, we'll be fine.  Our current administration is populated by muppets and morons, which is why we're in the economic, political, social, and international troubles we're in.

I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one, respectfully of course. There’s currently an awful lot of ballot initiatives for state boundaries to be redrawn, states joining other states (ie greater Idaho), and outright secession.  While this may seem like nothing but noise at the moment, the fissures in our union are undeniably growing.  
I recently read an old, fantastically researched, history on the Civil War by Catton. The first book is called “The Coming Fury” and focuses mostly on Congress 1860-61, the parallels to what we see today are quite shocking. 
Now I’m not betting we‘ll be engaging in gun battles with our neighbors any time soon, but I am saying, throughout time, the lines on the map have always changed, and they rarely change peacefully. 

[pawnman]

12 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

who is funding those groups...it's not republicans...

And who is funding groups like Q-Anon and the Proud Boys?

[GrndPndr]

"Hi, Joe Mediaowner here.  Just wanted to say thank you - thank you...  to everyone for all of the drama created by all of the well meaning folks out there.  One thing's for sure, when two sides start to argue, we really get to clean up (so to speak).   Of course, we didn't have anything to do with fomenting the dissent and differing opinions, but hey, if we can make things clear by explaining why you should be angry and show a little video with that, well you can count on us.  We have a saying - 'Bring the drama!' and we'll be bringing the drama to a webpage near you."

Joe M - out.

[dream big]

18 minutes ago, pawnman said:

And who is funding groups like Q-Anon and the Proud Boys?

They suck too. But as I’ve mentioned before (in this thread or one of the others), the extreme groups on the right get plenty of media coverage and often times are blown well out of proportion in terms of their scope and power; whereas the extreme groups on the left get a free pass in the mainstream press. How many businesses and lives are lost because of Qanon or Proud Boys compared to BLM Summer 2020? There is no comparison. 

[ClearedHot]

23 minutes ago, pawnman said:

And who is funding groups like Q-Anon and the Proud Boys?

I honestly don't know, but I do know they are not celebrated like BLM and ANTIFA.

Remember "mostly peaceful" protests that burned U.S. government facilities all over the country.

Sadly the extremes on both sides suck up all the oxygen from folks like you and me that reside in the middle.  Unfortunately for me the media is dominated by liberals and most of the networks focus on one side and make excuses for the other.

[BashiChuni]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

And who is funding groups like Q-Anon and the Proud Boys?

Q was a goofy online conspiracy cult. proud boys stood up as a joke

not equivalent to antifa or BLM

[GrndPndr]

Unsurprisingly, praying is okay for some, but not others. (see above)

https://notthebee.com/article/washington-school-board-reaches-2m-settlement-with-football-coach-fired-for-praying-on-field

[Biff_T]

6 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Remember "mostly peaceful" protests that burned U.S. government facilities all over the country.

All of the people kneeling in this picture have been in some form of government power for over 20 years.   They scream about changing the status quo.  They've had over 2 decades (sometimes more like Biden) to solve the problems that we are so divided as a country over.   The common American on both sides of the political spectrum needs to wake up.   We're fighting against each other when we should be fighting (voting out) the politicians who kept us here.  

[dream big]

1 hour ago, Biff_T said:

All of the people kneeling in this picture have been in some form of government power for over 20 years.   They scream about changing the status quo.  They've had over 2 decades (sometimes more like Biden) to solve the problems that we are so divided as a country over.   The common American on both sides of the political spectrum needs to wake up.   We're fighting against each other when we should be fighting (voting out) the politicians who kept us here.  

Yet they have such a loyal base that will vote for them no matter what. God help you if you try to shift that narrative. This perpetual cycle and the backlash that comes with calling it out scares me more than some idiot with a Viking Hat or a dude in Proud Boys 

[Sim]

On 3/18/2023 at 1:14 PM, nsplayr said:

Anyone on the left calling for a civil war is a dangerous moron that no one should listen to…

Indeed. 

[FourFans]

On 3/19/2023 at 2:40 AM, O Face said:

I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one, respectfully of course. There’s currently an awful lot of ballot initiatives for state boundaries to be redrawn, states joining other states (ie greater Idaho), and outright secession.  While this may seem like nothing but noise at the moment, the fissures in our union are undeniably growing.  
I recently read an old, fantastically researched, history on the Civil War by Catton. The first book is called “The Coming Fury” and focuses mostly on Congress 1860-61, the parallels to what we see today are quite shocking. 
Now I’m not betting we‘ll be engaging in gun battles with our neighbors any time soon, but I am saying, throughout time, the lines on the map have always changed, and they rarely change peacefully. 

Agreed.  However the context is vastly different.  The overwhelming majority of the population in 1860 was intimately familiar with warfare, combat, death, and hardship at the individual level.  Simply living anywhere west of the Allegheny Mountains was hard.  Death was commonplace, and owning lethal weapons was a demanded way of life.

Fast forward to our modern culture where life without toilet paper is considered difficult and owning a lethal weapon is actually a debated topic.  A civil war, true violent cessation, and the attempt of one part of this country to break away from the other would require hardship to be endured by all individuals.  Most importantly would be the economic hardship.  Imagine trying to live in California or New York without the US federal presence or without the food provided by the midwest.  Yes, cali produces things, but not the things that could support them independently.  New York doesn't produce jack shit.  We need each other.  Any kind of real state fracture will readily expose that fact, and pressing into it will require serious endurance and privation at the household level.  You think white suburban women came out of the woodwork to vote against trump?  Imagine what would happen if you actually deprive them of their soy lattes and avocado toast.

Frankly, modern American's don't have the balls for that kind of hardship...at least not over neighborhood politics.  Southern Californians DEFINITELY don't have the balls for that.  Modern Americans are all about kicking someone else's ass so long as that person is on the other side of a pond and can't actually hurt us.  People in 1860 knew what blood spilt on our soil felt and looked like (1776 was less than 100 years prior, and then war of 1812), and were prepared to live through privation in support of a belief, and a patriotism they held dear.  Modern Americans, writ large, are not.  Less than 10% of our population has experienced combat of any kind, and less than that in our governing bodies.

Our fractures will stop at political action, and I believe any re-organization (greater Idaho for example) will be largely peaceful and political, with any violence being restricted to localized policeable actions such as protests and riots.  Militias are not about to start fighting each other or the federal military.  Americans are both too smart and too comfortable to do that.  Our country is not going to try and break apart. 

Re-arrangement and re-organization is possible though.

My bet is that an international action sometime in the next five years will put all that to bed anyway.  As a country, we galvanize like no other.

Edited March 20, 2023 by FourFans

[Biff_T]

44 minutes ago, FourFans said:

Southern Californians DEFINITELY don't have the balls for that. 

Especially, in Los Angeles.  However, I heard that there is a band of small handed, mouth breathing, retired helicopter pilots living in OC that don't mind a fight.  Lol

You are 100% correct about people here.  No one could stomach 2 days without power.   Also, I'm pretty sure if there was any type of war down here, the looters would take out most of the targets on night one.  

 

[O Face]

2 hours ago, FourFans said:

Agreed.  However the context is vastly different.  The overwhelming majority of the population in 1860 was intimately familiar with warfare, combat, death, and hardship at the individual level.  Simply living anywhere west of the Allegheny Mountains was hard.  Death was commonplace, and owning lethal weapons was a demanded way of life.

Fast forward to our modern culture where life without toilet paper is considered difficult and owning a lethal weapon is actually a debated topic.  A civil war, true violent cessation, and the attempt of one part of this country to break away from the other would require hardship to be endured by all individuals.  Most importantly would be the economic hardship.  Imagine trying to live in California or New York without the US federal presence or without the food provided by the midwest.  Yes, cali produces things, but not the things that could support them independently.  New York doesn't produce jack shit.  We need each other.  Any kind of real state fracture will readily expose that fact, and pressing into it will require serious endurance and privation at the household level.  You think white suburban women came out of the woodwork to vote against trump?  Imagine what would happen if you actually deprive them of their soy lattes and avocado toast.

Frankly, modern American's don't have the balls for that kind of hardship...at least not over neighborhood politics.  Southern Californians DEFINITELY don't have the balls for that.  Modern Americans are all about kicking someone else's ass so long as that person is on the other side of a pond and can't actually hurt us.  People in 1860 knew what blood spilt on our soil felt and looked like (1776 was less than 100 years prior, and then war of 1812), and were prepared to live through privation in support of a belief, and a patriotism they held dear.  Modern Americans, writ large, are not.  Less than 10% of our population has experienced combat of any kind, and less than that in our governing bodies.

Our fractures will stop at political action, and I believe any re-organization (greater Idaho for example) will be largely peaceful and political, with any violence being restricted to localized policeable actions such as protests and riots.  Militias are not about to start fighting each other or the federal military.  Americans are both too smart and too comfortable to do that.  Our country is not going to try and break apart. 

Re-arrangement and re-organization is possible though.

My bet is that an international action sometime in the next five years will put all that to bed anyway.  As a country, we galvanize like no other.

Masterfully written response. And once again, I appreciate your insight. If I were placing bets, I’d go all in on your theory.

I do believe that we’ll see some state boundaries change in the not too distant future. I bet the good folks of Greater Idaho would be thrilled to sell organic potatoes and cruelty free/free range chicken to the people of Portland, instead of being governed by them.  How the boundaries get drawn and who gets to decide, however, will get messy.

The utter contempt and hatred that the urban centers heap upon their food producers is mind boggling, and I don’t believe will continue to be tolerated. Even if financial hardships must be endured. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by O Face
*

[GrndPndr]

Not sure if I feel sad with this one, or where I should file this...

 

[Sim]

Perfectly normal behavior, right? 

[ClearedHot]

14 hours ago, Sim said:

Perfectly normal behavior, right? 

Sadly that side of the aisle as has been repeatedly stated by our liberal friends on this forum, is "mostly happy" with Biden and his performance.   In the next two weeks he is going to announce he is running again, can you imagine what he will sound like in four more years?

[Guest nsplayr]

So here is the actual full video (~28 minutes) of Biden’s remarks at the Women’s Business Summit at the White House.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?526980-1/president-biden-calls-congress-pass-assault-weapons-ban-nashville-school-shooting

10:14-12:24 includes his opening comments about the shooting in Nashville. Feel free to judge him by those comments; I think they were very appropriate. Of literally all the things in the entire world Joe Biden can speak about well and compassionately, it would be having a child die cruelty too soon.

Before 10:14 he was introduced and warmed up the visiting crowd at the White House, which included kids, and after 12:24, he have his actual remarks about women and their businesses. Even the joking comment about Jenni’s Ice Cream  highlighted in bad faith above makes sense given that it’s not only a personal fav of his and an ongoing meme about him, but it’s also an ice cream business started by a woman that’s now wildly successful.

So given full context instead of the dickhead edit you see above, I have basically zero critiques.

Edited March 28, 2023 by nsplayr

[FourFans]

49 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

So here is the actual full video (~28 minutes) of Biden’s remarks at the Women’s Business Summit at the White House.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?526980-1/president-biden-calls-congress-pass-assault-weapons-ban-nashville-school-shooting

10:14-12:24 includes his opening comments about the shooting in Nashville. Feel free to judge him by those comments; I think they were very appropriate. Of literally all the things in the entire world Joe Biden can speak about well and compassionately, it would be having a child die cruelty too soon.

Before 10:14 he was introduced and warmed up the visiting crowd at the White House, which included kids, and after 12:24, he have his actual remarks about women and their businesses. Even the joking comment about Jenni’s Ice Cream  highlighted in bad faith above makes sense given that it’s not only a personal fav of his and an ongoing meme about him, but it’s also an ice cream business started by a woman that’s now wildly successful.

So given full context instead of the dickhead edit you see above, I have basically zero critiques.

You're seriously still standing behind this guy?

[Guest nsplayr]

8 minutes ago, FourFans said:

You're seriously still standing behind this guy?

Joe Biden is the parent of a service member who died, and also lost his daughter and first wife in a horrible car accident. I’m sure views on him are not 100% positive when polling gold star families, but I give him high marks on the grief counseling role that every POTUS inevitably has to do.

I’m also a mainstream Democrat and support his mainstream Dem-priority policy accomplishments.

If you’re a conservative I imagine you don’t, but it shouldn’t be hard to understand why a Democrat likely would.

Edited March 28, 2023 by nsplayr

[uhhello]

7 minutes ago, FourFans said:

You're seriously still standing behind this guy?

Don't manipulate video/transcripts to suit your narrative.  He has enough out there where you can truly see he is not fit to be leading.  It's simple.  

[uhhello]

1 minute ago, nsplayr said:

Joe Biden is the parent of a service member who died, and also lost his daughter and first wife in a horrible car accident. I’m sure views on him are not 100% positive when polling gold star families, but I give him high marks on the grief counseling role that every POTUS inevitably has to do.

I’m also a mainstream Democrat and support his mainstream Dem-priority policy accomplishments.

If you’re a conservative I imagine you don’t, but it shouldn’t be hard to understand why a Democrat likely would.

You think he is fit to serve currently?  How about in another year and a half?  I'm pretty middle of the road on most stuff, couldn't vote for Trump in the last go around but if it was down to Trump/Biden in 24......I think I represent a giant chunk of the voting bloc as well.