Report Slams Military's Recent Camouflage Uniforms

[Guest ThatGuy]

I have...I was an E in the Army Guard, and a poor college student as well. We didn't get a uniform stipend but those BDUs still wore out and I had to replace them out of pocket. I prob didn't have to replace them as often as, say, an AD crew chief, but I still went through several sets in the four years I served as an E-1 thru E-5.

In any case, making MultiCam the default utility uniform would mean greater production, and prices should come down due to economies of scale. Right now it's a "specialty" uniform and isn't made in the same numbers as the other uniforms.

Thanks Hueypilot for speaking about your experience. When I was an "E" I yearned for that gortex jacket that was a whopping $100 if not more back in 1999. I waited until I was sent to Korea. They issue parka's to everyone and that's when I was able to actually save money because I didn't have to pay car insurance, a cable bill, for gas, and a landline phone bill. Actually, we did have a landline phone in our room but it was like $10 a month I actually purchased a real gortex jacket before leaving, not the Korean kind. But I was shocked when I went off base and purchased an authentic Columbia jacket and Abercrombie jacket each for about the price of a gortex. The Columbia jacket had two layers and was essentially a two piece jacket and to me it would fair better than what you purchase from clothing sale. And the jacket was cheaper. To this day, I still have both of those jackets because I took damn good care of them. And yes, I still have my $100 gortex jacket as well. Wore that thing during my AFROTC days.

[tac airlifter]

He said the Marines put that to good use when the Fallujah went to hell while the Army was there and the Marines rotated in and made sure the locals knew heads were gonna roll with the new sherriff in town with their EGA badge.

Well this shows a complete and profound misunderstanding of Fallujah.

[Fuzz]

In any case, making MultiCam the default utility uniform would mean greater production, and prices should come down due to economies of scale, will stay the same cause the contractor knows it can gouge the shit out of the government and DoD members have no choice but to buy it.

FIFY

Edited June 14, 2013 by Fuzz

[Dupe]

...will stay the same cause the contractor knows it can gouge the shit out of the government and DoD members have no choice but to buy it.

There's a way around that: we license production to a handfull of firms. Competition drives price down. It's like buying beer in The Quarter vice at the Super Dome.

[disgruntledemployee]

Well this shows a complete and profound misunderstanding of Fallujah.

Whatever dude. I wasn't there on the ground and most likely neither were you. I was just paraphrasing a short lil story from a buddy, the jist of which is that the MARINES don't want to be associated with the Army and really hate it when they're called soldiers. A distinct uniform helps.

Back to bitching about our sucky ABUs.

Out

[954natv]

So what is the complaint here? The ABU's suck. The ACU's suck. The Navy camo sucks. Flight suits suck. Multi-cam is awesome! (same article metioned it cost more than the ABU and ACU to roll out) I dont want to buy another uniform! But the Marines....they have it together. Are we really envious of the Marine uniform situation? Well to start they have to buy their uniforms like us. They buy desert and woodland cammies because they switch them out during the year. And you think they are going to work on a dirty aircraft with those fresh pressed beauties? There is a coverall uniform for that too. Then if they are lucky enough to fly they will need desert and green flight suits (depending on the season). Here is where the real fun starts. Then they get into service uniforms with 3 pants types, several shirt types, the green jacket, the blues jacket (leatherneck) and the associated stuff that goes on them designated by what letter uniform they will need for the day. And then if you make major you will need the actual mess dress and it costs about a grand. And PT's because if they are going to the gym they are certainly not going to be in civilian clothes.(funny enough Marines cant go into the exchange in PT gear either) And if you fly in the morning you are going to need a change of clothes to do your secondary duties because you arent going to wear that flight suit all day. How about lunch off base with the gang? Nah you can't even stop for gas in a Marine uniform. And just when the horror of Blues monday was ending for the AF, the Marines launched Service friday and that is the whole show with tie and long sleeves.

So yeah we spent too much on the ABU, so now what? spend more to fix it? Maybe some "battlefield airmen" have a legit complaint but for me I'll stick with the crappy ABU's and falling apart flight suit.

[Guest ThatGuy]

So what is the complaint here? The ABU's suck. The ACU's suck. The Navy camo sucks. Flight suits suck. Multi-cam is awesome! (same article metioned it cost more than the ABU and ACU to roll out) I dont want to buy another uniform! But the Marines....they have it together. Are we really envious of the Marine uniform situation? Well to start they have to buy their uniforms like us. They buy desert and woodland cammies because they switch them out during the year. And you think they are going to work on a dirty aircraft with those fresh pressed beauties? There is a coverall uniform for that too. Then if they are lucky enough to fly they will need desert and green flight suits (depending on the season). Here is where the real fun starts. Then they get into service uniforms with 3 pants types, several shirt types, the green jacket, the blues jacket (leatherneck) and the associated stuff that goes on them designated by what letter uniform they will need for the day. And then if you make major you will need the actual mess dress and it costs about a grand. And PT's because if they are going to the gym they are certainly not going to be in civilian clothes.(funny enough Marines cant go into the exchange in PT gear either) And if you fly in the morning you are going to need a change of clothes to do your secondary duties because you arent going to wear that flight suit all day. How about lunch off base with the gang? Nah you can't even stop for gas in a Marine uniform. And just when the horror of Blues monday was ending for the AF, the Marines launched Service friday and that is the whole show with tie and long sleeves.

So yeah we spent too much on the ABU, so now what? spend more to fix it? Maybe some "battlefield airmen" have a legit complaint but for me I'll stick with the crappy ABU's and falling apart flight suit.

Kind of went across the border into Pakistan on us there my friend.There is a difference in wanting to use one of their uniforms opposed to inheriting all the same rules as the Marines. There is a reason why they have so many rules regarding wear of their uniforms and the AF does not. It's called "common sense." And typically, some grunt messed it up for everyone because they did something asinine in their uniform on or off base. You know what happens next...lol..everyone feels the pain. It's not okay to go mudding and flip my truck in uniform?

I went through joint pilot training and the CO told the AF pilots that we had to follow Navy uniform rules with the flightsuit. Say what? My AF IP said you can make stops in your flightsuit if you need something. Nobody liked that CO and when I say nobody, I meant his own damn UPT instructors. He had a piss poor attitude and if you had to fly with him for your ride to determine whether you stay or go in UPT then you might as well not even showed up for that flight because he was going to hook you. Kiss yo a$$ goodbye. His attitude was if you got to this ride you don't need to be a pilot. Needless to say that CO left and his replacement was the complete opposite and a football star in his academy days. Morale definitely improved if not peaked!

Edited June 15, 2013 by slick999

[M2]

Everybody was OK with BDUs from the early 1980s until the mid-2000s, why in the fuck can't the military figure out one standard utility/combat/field uniform for everyone now?

Seriously, the ABUs have been a huge joke since their introduction, and the Navy's are even more ridiculous. They don't even wear them in real combat zones, much like the Air Force they use Multicams. The Army at least didn't develop theirs by committee, but the ACU still sucks balls. And seriously, the only real reason the Marines developed MARPAT was to be different. They always have to be different.

Adopt the Multicams, bring back subdued patches so folks can have some sense of unit pride, and put an end to all this bullshit!

[Guest ThatGuy]

Everybody was OK with BDUs from the early 1980s until the mid-2000s, why in the ###### can't the military figure out one standard utility/combat/field uniform for everyone now? Seriously, the ABUs have been a huge joke since their introduction, and the Navy's are even more ridiculous. They don't even wear them in real combat zones, much like the Air Force they use Multicams. The Army at least didn't develop theirs by committee, but the ACU still sucks balls. And seriously, the only real reason the Marines developed MARPAT was to be different. They always have to be different. Adopt the Multicams, bring back subdued patches so folks can have some sense of unit pride, and put an end to all this bullshit!

During OEF and OIF the Air Force wore ABUs. I can't remember when the order came down to issue multicams but it was after 2011 I believe. During those conflicts is when the AF learned the ABU was not made or could withstand combat wear and tear. You know its bad when you can't pay a TCN to wear a set.

Edited June 15, 2013 by slick999

[Recut]

Have you ever received a uniform stipend as an enlisted member before? When you receive the same pay as an enlisted member give me a call and I will provide you with an education on uniform stipends.

I was an E and I sure as hell didn't use my annual uniform money for uniforms. I was a maintainer, too....... Disclaimer: I wore BDUs that I was issued for my 4.5 yrs as an E (and they lasted the whole time).......so if you were an ABU type and had to buy uniforms all the time cuz the ABUs wore out then disregard. I don't know, I've only worn the ABUs I had to buy out of pocket as an O once. On the other hand thinking about cost of BDU vs ABU, each new E rank with BDUs = sewing on ranks on all of your stuff so there was still a cost....

[Guest ThatGuy]

I was an E and I sure as hell didn't use my annual uniform money for uniforms. I was a maintainer, too....... Disclaimer: I wore BDUs that I was issued for my 4.5 yrs as an E (and they lasted the whole time).......so if you were an ABU type and had to buy uniforms all the time cuz the ABUs wore out then disregard. I don't know, I've only worn the ABUs I had to buy out of pocket as an O once. On the other hand thinking about cost of BDU vs ABU, each new E rank with BDUs = sewing on ranks on all of your stuff so there was still a cost....

Thanks Recut..ain't that the truth. Forgot about all the stripes and crap you had to get sewn on. I remember back in the day when you took your BDUs to the cleaners. I saved my money but I was still poor living in the dorm and working at the NSA at Fort Meade.

Edited June 15, 2013 by slick999

[Recut]

Thanks Recut..ain't that the truth. Forgout about all the stripes and crap you had to get sewn on. I remember back in the day when you took your BDUs to the cleaners. I saved my money but I was still poor living in the dorm and working at the NSA at Fort Meade.

Ha, that checks Slick.

Now, as far as this "one uniform" across the services.............that's what BDUs were. WTFO? Let's go ahead and reinvent the wheel!

[Guest ThatGuy]

Ha, that checks Slick. Now, as far as this "one uniform" across the services.............that's what BDUs were. WTFO? Let's go ahead and reinvent the wheel!

During our time wearing "BDUs" I remember the Marines at the NSA actually wore a differnt type of BDU cap which made them stand out compared to the other services. I have never owned or worn a set of multicams but they look like a set of dirty BDUs to me. Coming from nicely starched BDUs I just prefer the MARPAT because they look sharp.

Edited June 15, 2013 by slick999

[sputnik]

... but the ACU still sucks balls.

Why? The colors/pattern or something else? It's the most comfortable uniform I've worn, better than a flight suit when hot.

[Catbox]

During OEF and OIF the Air Force wore ABUs. I can't remember when the order came down to issue multicams but it was after 2011 I believe. During those conflicts is when the AF learned the ABU was not made or could withstand combat wear and tear. You know its bad when you can't pay a TCN to wear a set.

Correction my friend...In garrison the AF wore ABUs. If you went outside the wire you got ABSGs (because the ABU is essentially shrink wrap when exposed to heat) which despite the ridiculous pattern were actually pretty comfortable. They were made out of Nomex and you didn’t have to blouse the boots. They still had buttons but if you could get the ABSG "under-armor" shirt and the non bloused pants the whole set up wasn’t bad, especially when walking around.

Having said all that it was utterly ######ing stupid that we had to get a ridiculously expensive uniform (ABSGs apparently cost the gov't around a grand for a workable set) to use in combat because our Airman COMBAT Uniform was not useable in combat. It truly boggles the mind.

I'm wearing OCPs this time and they are ok...in my mind the most workable solution to the current mess.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Catbox

[Guest ThatGuy]

Correction my friend...In garrison the AF wore ABUs. If you went outside the wire you got ABSGs (because the ABU is essentially shrink wrap when exposed to heat) which despite the ridiculous pattern were actually pretty comfortable. They were made out of Nomex and you didn’t have to blouse the boots. They still had buttons but if you could get the ABSG "under-armor" shirt and the non bloused pants the whole set up wasn’t bad, especially when walking around. Having said all that it was utterly ######ing stupid that we had to get a ridiculously expensive uniform (ABSGs apparently cost the gov't around a grand for a workable set) to use in combat because our Airman COMBAT Uniform was not useable in combat. It truly boggles the mind. I'm wearing OCPs this time and they are ok...in my mind the most workable solution to the current mess.

Oh yeah, I remember seeing the ABSGs! This whole uniform mess happened because certain branches were spending money like drunken sailors. Now that the cash flow has been cut off we are moving back to what makes sense. I remember in Afghanistan we had our intel folks travel to a FOB. They were told to get Army uniforms before their trip, otherwise they would stick out like a sore thumb...WTF?

Why? The colors/pattern or something else? It's the most comfortable uniform I've worn, better than a flight suit when hot.

Lets take a vote to see what is the most comfortable uniform. The Flightsuit or the ABU?

[Lawman]

Why? The colors/pattern or something else? It's the most comfortable uniform I've worn, better than a flight suit when hot.

Your out of your mind. ACU has the feeling of cardboard and the issue t-shirt is unwearable in theatre because it melts to the skin.

The reality is somebody somewhere fell into the digital fad with ACU and let somebody sell them a bag of goods. "Don't worry, with modern digital tech the colors won't matter. This will confuse the eye and you'll blend right in.... It's like that movie Predator." And then checks were signed and the Army believed it could wear 1 color scheme everywhere and look smart.

Now after a decade of ass pain the "new uniform" info is trickling out, we will get Rees different patterns. One woodland, one desert, and one for garrison. Should be great to see how much that issue bag costs the average soldier in the days of sequestration.

[Guest ThatGuy]

The reality is somebody somewhere fell into the digital fad with ACU and let somebody sell them a bag of goods. "Don't worry, with modern digital tech the colors won't matter. This will confuse the eye and you'll blend right in.... It's like that movie Predator." And then checks were signed and the Army believed it could wear 1 color scheme everywhere and look smart.

LMAO Great post! I say everyone wears woodland year round kind of like the old BDUs. Correct me if I am wrong but in the pacific theater we would probably be wearing the woodland uniform. I know in Korea we would be wearing the woodland uniform but not sure about China.

Edited June 15, 2013 by slick999

[Guest ThatGuy]

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/house-approves-measure-to-have-military-branches-share-one-camouflage-pattern-1.225978

The Air Force, for its part, spent about $3.1 million on a camouflage "Airman Battle Uniform." But after criticism that it provided poor camouflage, the Air Force told airmen in Afghanistan that the uniform should not actually be worn in battle.

[Hacker]

I bet the manufacturers of all these different camouflage types are going to be pissed that their cash-cow contracts to make them may be going away.

[Lawman]

I bet the manufacturers of all these different camouflage types are going to be pissed that their cash-cow contracts to make them may be going away.

Ive got as much sympathy for them as I do for all the Contractors that spent the last however many years making 6 figures to manage a Warehouse full or Water Bottles with a staff of 8 at Bagram thinking that job was gonna last forever.

[M2]

During OEF and OIF the Air Force wore ABUs. I can't remember when the order came down to issue multicams but it was after 2011 I believe. During those conflicts is when the AF learned the ABU was not made or could withstand combat wear and tear. You know its bad when you can't pay a TCN to wear a set.

I wore BDUs enough during my 25 years to know how they were, and they weren't bad uniforms.

However, I am not saying to bring them back; just that the DoD needs to design one uniform and everyone (yes, including the Marines) wear it. This waste of every service designing (and redesigning) "combat" uniforms has to stop.

Why? The colors/pattern or something else? It's the most comfortable uniform I've worn, better than a flight suit when hot.

Talk to any Army bubba, they hate 'em. They prefer the multicam.

[Tonka]

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/house-approves-measure-to-have-military-branches-share-one-camouflage-pattern-1.225978

"Congress needs to exercise its oversight to make sure we don't do silly things,"

And this was the first thing that came to mind?

Edited June 15, 2013 by Tonka

[HU&W]

I wouldn't mind going back to BDU's. Especially if it meant the end to awful green boots with flight suits.

[HuggyU2]

I wouldn't mind going back to BDU's. Especially if it meant the end to awful green boots with flight suits.

Bite your tongue.