What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Guest nsplayr]

6 minutes ago, pawnman said:

While I don't fully disagree...didn't the same system produce Chief Wright?

Why was one so great and another so terrible?

To me a system that claims to select for merit that produces a scattershot of amazing people and total douchbags is pretty clearly failing to live up to its claim.

[17D_guy]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

To me a system that claims to select for merit that produces a scattershot of amazing people and total douchbags is pretty clearly failing to live up to its claim.

Yea, that's why I made that comment about "merit based systems" in the other thread.

People get ahead for all kinds of reasons, easy to deal with, extra smart, favors...not strictly merit based.  Got a guy who's early to command I used to work with who was a complete douchebag who produced nothing but more meetings.

Col Shitbird loved him though.

[jrizzell]

While I don't fully disagree...didn't the same system produce Chief Wright?

Why was one so great and another so terrible?

Hopefully, she and her staff have learned, that continual daily engagement on Facebook is fraught with disaster. She’s been apart of two self-inflicted, and avoidable missteps.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[tac airlifter]

5 hours ago, pawnman said:

While I don't fully disagree...didn't the same system produce Chief Wright?

Why was one so great and another so terrible?

Chief Wright was also terrible.

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Chief Wright was also terrible.

Strongly disagree.

But if that's your take...who was the last good CMSAF?

[tac airlifter]

5 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Strongly disagree.

But if that's your take...who was the last good CMSAF?

No idea.  Not being enlisted I have spent my career ignoring the position.  My comment is based on personal interaction.

[Guest nsplayr]

3 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Chief Wright was also terrible.

Blasphemy against Enlisted Jesus! You, sir, are hereby excommunicated.

p.s. - I have no dog in this fight, I didn't know Wright nor do I know Bass or anyone else who's ever been CMSAF.

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

No idea.  Not being enlisted I have spent my career ignoring the position.  My comment is based on personal interaction.

OK...so you don't have any enlisted folks that work for you?  You don't have any in the squadron?

Sorry you had a bad interaction with the dude, but there is absolutely no question he improved the lives of enlisted members enormously during his tenure.

[tac airlifter]

15 minutes ago, pawnman said:

OK...so you don't have any enlisted folks that work for you?  You don't have any in the squadron?

Sorry you had a bad interaction with the dude, but there is absolutely no question he improved the lives of enlisted members enormously during his tenure.

It seems we have different opinions on the man.  However I know mine is an opinion, whereas you think there’s “absolutely no question” yours is fact.

edited to add: sorry if this comes of like a dick, wasn’t my intent but it totally reads that way.

Edited February 4, 2021 by tac airlifter

[17D_guy]

4 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

It seems we have different opinions on the man.  However I know mine is an opinion, whereas you think there’s “absolutely no question” yours is fact.

edited to add: sorry if this comes of like a dick, wasn’t my intent but it totally reads that way.

I'm a prior-E, so I have some appreciation for the position.  I also worked in mostly E environments my whole commissioned career (comm sq's, cyber ops sq's).

While your opinion was not absent, it is extremely minuscule among the Enlisted Airmen that I interacted with.

E-9 Cody on the other hand, I worked with one of his enlisted execs...oh the stories, also about his wife.  Anyone who wasn't a Molotov Douche would be better than that guy, so EJ got some push from that.

Do you mind elaborating on your interaction that caused your dislike?  I got saluted by him as he visited our unit and I was leaving and he was professional and nice.  Never thought I'd ever be in that position, so it was pretty cool to me.

[dream big]

On 1/31/2021 at 8:15 PM, ToHoldShort said:

Telling a one sided story blasting an airman without due diligence to research the other side of the story. And then editing the original post

 

 

She’s a huge social justice warrior and nonner; of course the dude was obviously the bad guy in this divorce mess.  Good lord does she have anything better to do? 

[Guardian]

Strongly disagree.
But if that's your take...who was the last good CMSAF?

Chief Wright was the most recent guy right? Glad that racist dude is gone. In a day and age where the AF is pushing to clean up the system he needed to be shown the door.

[pawnman]

45 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Chief Wright was the most recent guy right? Glad that racist dude is gone. In a day and age where the AF is pushing to clean up the system he needed to be shown the door.

Racist?

OK.

[Guardian]

Watch his video with Goldfien about all the stuff this summer. He calls his own kids by names of convicted thugs and bad dudes then talks about some pretty shady stuff which is about black supremacy and anti white. It’s racist.

Racism defined simply as the preference of one race over another or superior to another. His glorifying people of his skin color and then attributing their wrongs to his own kids isn’t the kind of example we should set for people in the Air Force. It’s not equality he was pushing. It wasn’t MLK character of a man he was pushing.

[Negatory]

27 minutes ago, Guardian said:

It wasn’t MLK character of a man he was pushing.

What specifically does this mean?

[Guardian]

Reference teachings of MLK.

The person that BLM’s values don’t align with.

[Bigred]

Being fairly new, I find it interesting how much attention is given to the CMSAF role and the person in it. In 19 years of the Navy, I couldn’t give you one name of a MCPON (Navy top enlisted).

I guess my point, the CMSAF seems it’s more about the person and less about the job. At least that’s my perception. 

[sixblades]

10 hours ago, Guardian said:

Watch his video with Goldfien about all the stuff this summer. He calls his own kids by names of convicted thugs and bad dudes then talks about some pretty shady stuff which is about black supremacy and anti white. It’s racist.

Racism defined simply as the preference of one race over another or superior to another. His glorifying people of his skin color and then attributing their wrongs to his own kids isn’t the kind of example we should set for people in the Air Force. It’s not equality he was pushing. It wasn’t MLK character of a man he was pushing.

If that’s what you gathered from that video and his body of work as the CMSAF, then you have serious problem. 

[Guardian]

If that’s what you gathered from that video and his body of work as the CMSAF, then you have serious problem. 

I agree

[SocialD]

10 hours ago, Bigred said:

Being fairly new, I find it interesting how much attention is given to the CMSAF role and the person in it. In 19 years of the Navy, I couldn’t give you one name of a MCPON (Navy top enlisted).

I guess my point, the CMSAF seems it’s more about the person and less about the job. At least that’s my perception. 

 

I was enlisted for 5 years and I only knew the CMSAF that I was required to memorize during basic training.  After that, I never knew (nor did I care) who the CMSAF was...still don't.  For that matter, I honestly couldn't care less who is the current CSAF.  Everyone has high hopes/they talk a big game...then nothing really changes.  I take that back, there have been plenty of changes, mostly requiring I do more and more work that others should be doing.

[ClearedHot]

Ungrateful peasants!

 

[SocialD]

4 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Ungrateful peasants!

 

But we all spent 14 days in Q-town quarantine, so we should all be good to go, right?  Or were we just wasting our lives sitting in that mold infested, shithole?  

[Hawg15]

13 hours ago, Bigred said:

Being fairly new, I find it interesting how much attention is given to the CMSAF role and the person in it. In 19 years of the Navy, I couldn’t give you one name of a MCPON (Navy top enlisted).

I guess my point, the CMSAF seems it’s more about the person and less about the job. At least that’s my perception. 

In the AF there is a culture of pretending a SGT of any sorts is superior to an officer under the rank of O-6, and if they are an E-8/9 then maybe even more authority than an O-6. It’s perpetuated across career fields and weak officers let it happen. They even support it by telling young officers they need to shut up and listen to the Sgts. 
 

I’m sure you have already noticed, that compared to the Navy and USMC, authority is non existent in the Air Force below the wing commander level. A piece of paper stamped by an A1C holds more merit than the command authority granted to most “commanders.” The need for a squadron commander to ask “mother may I” through the group and wing CC, and in some cases to a star (like covid ETPs), is absurd. 

[M2]

13 hours ago, Bigred said:

Being fairly new, I find it interesting how much attention is given to the CMSAF role and the person in it. In 19 years of the Navy, I couldn’t give you one name of a MCPON (Navy top enlisted).

I guess my point, the CMSAF seems it’s more about the person and less about the job. At least that’s my perception. 

You are correct.

 

[Blue]

On 2/2/2021 at 8:11 PM, Hacker said:

Standard AF answer. We only listen to the answers we want. Suppress the rest. She’s a terrible role model completely predictable, intentional product of the cancerous system of leadership that raised her, promoted her, and hired her. 

 

On 2/3/2021 at 8:49 AM, pawnman said:

While I don't fully disagree...didn't the same system produce Chief Wright?

Why was one so great and another so terrible?

Because the reality is the most important consideration in choosing leadership is making sure the candidates check the  appropriate diversity boxes.

Whether that is a misplaced priority is another discussion (I certainly don't agree with it).

When trying to fill a position like Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force, you're already looking at a pretty small pool of eligible candidates.  Now, add a requirement that the selectee must fit some diversity checkbox, and all of a sudden the pool gets even smaller.  It's basic arithmetic.

Sometimes, within the small pool you're still able to find a good candidate.  Sometimes you don't.  Selecting someone for a position like this is an imperfect process to begin with, and there is no sure-fire way to success.  But the smaller you make the pool by adding extra constraints, the more chance you'll end up with some clown who doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Blue
typo