What's wrong with the Air Force?

[pawnman]

8 hours ago, daynightindicator said:

Is it an additional AFSC or sub-AFSC like 91/92?

My point was to make it a no shitter career field.

And while we're at it, let's stop requireing a W pre-fix to be a wing exec.  Is this common in other communities?  Over half the wing execs I've known have been patches.  I'm sure that it's a great use of all the tactical knowledge they gain at weapon school to correct OPR/EPRs and comb through awards and decorations...

[brabus]

I've only seen one fighter patch be an exec.  I'm sure it's happened more than that one guy, but it's safe to say such a thing is extremely rare.  That is insane 1/2 of the execs you've seen have been patches, what a colossal waste of expertise/knowledge.

[Champ Kind]

6 hours ago, pawnman said:

And while we're at it, let's stop requireing a W pre-fix to be a wing exec.  Is this common in other communities?  Over half the wing execs I've known have been patches.  I'm sure that it's a great use of all the tactical knowledge they gain at weapon school to correct OPR/EPRs and comb through awards and decorations...

 

1 hour ago, brabus said:

I've only seen one fighter patch be an exec.  I'm sure it's happened more than that one guy, but it's safe to say such a thing is extremely rare.  That is insane 1/2 of the execs you've seen have been patches, what a colossal waste of expertise/knowledge.

I could rattle off about ten without thinking too hard...

[daynightindicator]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

I've only seen one fighter patch be an exec.  I'm sure it's happened more than that one guy, but it's safe to say such a thing is extremely rare.  That is insane 1/2 of the execs you've seen have been patches, what a colossal waste of expertise/knowledge.

The ass-backwards thing is "leadership" is usually trying to hook those guys up with school slots, etc. by making them the wing/group exec.  We've had a few WG/CCs of late who have been very forward in telling their rated officers that they don't stack up well against the support officers around base.  My issue with that is that it's the WG/CC who decides which criteria to use in the rack'n'stack process!  Stop using volunteering and other useless BS as a criteria for promotion/school competition!  Stop telling instructor/evaluator/patch-wearers working 12-hr/day ADO gigs that some shoe has a better record because he's a "DO" of the FSS or other similar non-rate unit!

I had a WG/CC once tell me that being MCC for a large force employment (both combat mission or flag) wasn't "real leadership" and that unless you're in charge of dozens of airmen on a daily basis, that the non-rated O's would always have a leg up.  That right there is probably the issue.

Afterthought...one issue that differs from the fighter patch world is that since our WIC is a GSU, it's an uphill battle for our WIC instructors to compete in the 57th WG.  That drives some of the game where they try to get a guy a school slot prior to sending him/her to instruct at WIC.

[ViperStud]

I had my CC explain to me the reason I went off base #2 for school is because the wing commander would not allow a sitting SQ/CC go off base behind a non-CC.  Obviously being an IP/FE currently downrange meant nothing. Needless to say, said SFS/CC had no chance of getting picked up and didn't. 

 

We laughed over a scotch when I got home. At the time I was securing my guard gig and wouldn't have stayed in for any flavor of school. I say again, separate our promotions from the 0730-1630 support guys with the time/flexibility to be CGOC pres and organize a Habitat build every month. We are not the same. 

[snoopyeast]

The tail is wagging the dog.

[Karl Hungus]

1 hour ago, ViperStud said:

I say again, separate our promotions from the 0730-1630 support guys with the time/flexibility to be CGOC pres and organize a Habitat build every month. We are not the same. 

Been saying this for years.  An 11x, 14N, 17x, 37x, whatever are not equals, yet we pretend that they are.

[Sprkt69]

2 hours ago, ViperStud said:

I had my CC explain to me the reason I went off base #2 for school is because the wing commander would not allow a sitting SQ/CC go off base behind a non-CC.  Obviously being an IP/FE currently downrange meant nothing. Needless to say, said SFS/CC had no chance of getting picked up and didn't. 

 

We laughed over a scotch when I got home. At the time I was securing my guard gig and wouldn't have stayed in for any flavor of school. I say again, separate our promotions from the 0730-1630 support guys with the time/flexibility to be CGOC pres and organize a Habitat build every month. We are not the same. 

I totally agree. Just like the medical officers, make rated officers a different promotion board than the rest of the LAF. That may see minor improvements for aircrew, but it's still like putting a bandaid over severed legs. 

[matmacwc]

1 hour ago, Sprkt69 said:

I totally agree. Just like the medical officers, make rated officers a different promotion board than the rest of the LAF. That may see minor improvements for aircrew, but it's still like putting a bandaid over severed legs. 

Go back to the spouses club and Judge Judy.

[Sprkt69]

53 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

Go back to the spouses club and Judge Judy.

Did you just wake up from passing out on the toilet again? Or just jealous because you love Judge Judy and drinking "coffee"?

[ViperStud]

Be nice, children. KKMF

[matmacwc]

1 hour ago, Sprkt69 said:

Did you just wake up from passing out on the toilet again? Or just jealous because you love Judge Judy and drinking "coffee"?

Just low

[HU&W]

6 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

I totally agree. Just like the medical officers, make rated officers a different promotion board than the rest of the LAF. That may see minor improvements for aircrew, but it's still like putting a bandaid over severed legs. 

The DT's already own the development process. Give them the promotion process too.  Promote in the silos to O6 and then hire based on job and quals.

[dream big]

Our patch wearer got back from weapons school in January, a few months later he went off to the wing to be an exec.  Now the squadron lost their only patch.  That's what is wrong with the Air Force. 

[Prosuper]

14 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

I totally agree. Just like the medical officers, make rated officers a different promotion board than the rest of the LAF. That may see minor improvements for aircrew, but it's still like putting a bandaid over severed legs. 

Maybe you can steal from the Navy where the pilots have additional duties to include MX officer which fly all the OCF/FCF's after phase inspection and each pilot with their name on the side of a jet have to do EPR's and other personnel stuff for the MX troops working his jet such as signing off on a Art 15 for being a bone head and answering failed QA evals and DSV's. Maybe fight for a young enlisted kid who shows promise who is on the wrong side of the one mistake Air Force instead of waiting until they are GP/CC to deal with enlisted matters. Teenagers are fun to deal with and I know why MX and Tigers eat their young. This is more to the fighter side than the heavy side due to enlisted aircrew.

[RTB]

4 hours ago, dream big said:

Our patch wearer got back from weapons school in January, a few months later he went off to the wing to be an exec.  Now the squadron lost their only patch.  That's what is wrong with the Air Force. 

Seriously??  What Wing?  

 

 

[dream big]

46 minutes ago, RTB said:

Seriously??  What Wing?  

 

 

Yokota 

[FUSEPLUG]

8 hours ago, dream big said:

Our patch wearer got back from weapons school in January, a few months later he went off to the wing to be an exec.  Now the squadron lost their only patch.  That's what is wrong with the Air Force. 

He's a "bright and shiny."  I don't see the problem here.   

[Zoom22]

Whats wrong with the air force.. how many characters do I get? 

[magnetfreezer]

15 hours ago, dream big said:

Our patch wearer got back from weapons school in January, a few months later he went off to the wing to be an exec.  Now the squadron lost their only patch.  That's what is wrong with the Air Force. 

AFGSC is taking captain patches from multiple MDS after about a year in Tier 1 billets and sending them to Striker Vista - 2 years of career broadening, 1 year as exec/general's aide. Most likely followed by guaranteed school slot and staff, imagine coming back as a DO/CC after 6-7 years out of the jet.

[di1630]

All this patch talk goes deeper to another problem: going to WIC was never supposed to be a career enhancing milestone....it was so that an already good IP could go, get firsthand experience and bring it back to the sq.

If there were enough resources, everyone would go to WIC.

[Champ Kind]

3 hours ago, di1630 said:

All this patch talk goes deeper to another problem: going to WIC was never supposed to be a career enhancing milestone....it was so that an already good IP could go, get firsthand experience and bring it back to the sq.

If there were enough resources, everyone would go to WIC.

 

[pawnman]

8 hours ago, magnetfreezer said:

AFGSC is taking captain patches from multiple MDS after about a year in Tier 1 billets and sending them to Striker Vista - 2 years of career broadening, 1 year as exec/general's aide. Most likely followed by guaranteed school slot and staff, imagine coming back as a DO/CC after 6-7 years out of the jet.

It's going to be fun if they stick to the planned timeline.  Ram a guy through the B-course, put him in a squadron, and a year later make him an instructor.

For reference, our normal upgrade timeline is a year to AC, and at least another 6 months to flight lead, then instructor.  But the plan is to make them an instructor within a year of graduating the B-course in the new jet, but they'll never actually instruct anyone - they'll be leaving for whatever school they're selected for.

[ThreeHoler]

AFGSC is taking captain patches from multiple MDS after about a year in Tier 1 billets and sending them to Striker Vista - 2 years of career broadening, 1 year as exec/general's aide. Most likely followed by guaranteed school slot and staff, imagine coming back as a DO/CC after 6-7 years out of the jet.

Welcome to AMC.

[osulax05]

7 hours ago, di1630 said:

All this patch talk goes deeper to another problem: going to WIC was never supposed to be a career enhancing milestone....it was so that an already good IP could go, get firsthand experience and bring it back to the sq.

If there were enough resources, everyone would go to WIC.

I agree and wish new WOs in every community were given the chance to work in a true tier 1 billet where they will build, teach and lead the folks around them. However, I will never scoff at the idea of a WG/CC trying to improve the promotion/school chances of a patch. WIC grads for the most part  have proven themselves to be the type of leaders we want running things in the future.   Being an exec or DS is all part of the AF game to advance. We can hate on it as much as we want but very little will change until we get the right folks into WG/GP/SQ command positions.  Positioning a patch wearer to fill those positions is never a bad thing IMHO.