Are the guys who signed up for this happier than the guys coming from manned cockpits?

Quiet Scoobs.

it also said they were exploring the idea of UPT direct… Again.

ing awesome. my timing is impeciable

Are the guys who signed up for this happier than the guys coming from manned cockpits?

Slightly, but I suspect most of that is a function of not knowing what they're missing. Based on my conversations with the dudes at my last squadron, I expect most of the 18X Lt's to separate at the end of their 6 years. The prior enlisted and late-rate dudes are a different animal, but they're significantly closer to 20.

If the AF made it more family friendly by increasing Qol and decreasing hours would people stay?

https://militaryadvantage.military.com/2015/05/dual-service-couples-could-see-housing-allowances-slashed/

Are you a mil-to-mil couple? You could be losing half of your BAH. No, it's not Obama stealing your cash, it's McCain's idea. As a mil-to-civ guy who gets jealous of two married captains raking in the cash, I think this is a ridiculous idea.

It's like the congressmen were sitting around the table saying, "How can we reduce retention even more? Hmmm, how about cutting the salary of much of our force by upwards of $15k a year?"

If the AF made it more family friendly by increasing Qol and decreasing hours would people stay?

You'd see some improvement in retention, but not much I think. The plan right now is to double output here at Holloman. We're about to cannibalize ops squadrons for dozens of their instructors to increase FTU manning. So ops manning will take a nasty hit the next year, and it's going to be the experienced dudes and dudettes squadrons can least afford to lose, especially en masse. So in the medium term, you'll have ops squadrons flooded with Lt's and not enough IPs to teach them MQT. It is going to be a very rough 2017 for dudes flying the line. To compound the problem, the current bottom of the barrel for 18Xers is terrifying. We had several dudes at my last squadron who I wouldn't trust to tie their own shoes. When we double the number of 18Xers, we're going to see the average quality go down. In the long term, perhaps increased manning will alleviate some issues, but I think we're 4 years out on that, best case. Either way, I don't plan on sticking around to find out. Bottom line: there's a hole in the bucket and the planned repair is to pour twice as much water in.

You'd see some improvement in retention, but not much I think. The plan right now is to double output here at Holloman. We're about to cannibalize ops squadrons for dozens of their instructors to increase FTU manning. So ops manning will take a nasty hit the next year, and it's going to be the experienced dudes and dudettes squadrons can least afford to lose, especially en masse. So in the medium term, you'll have ops squadrons flooded with Lt's and not enough IPs to teach them MQT. It is going to be a very rough 2017 for dudes flying the line. To compound the problem, the current bottom of the barrel for 18Xers is terrifying. We had several dudes at my last squadron who I wouldn't trust to tie their own shoes. When we double the number of 18Xers, we're going to see the average quality go down. In the long term, perhaps increased manning will alleviate some issues, but I think we're 4 years out on that, best case. Either way, I don't plan on sticking around to find out. Bottom line: there's a hole in the bucket and the planned repair is to pour twice as much water in.

if the quality is such shit on some of these pilots its about time they revisit the warrant officer solution

I think this is simple...Put the GCS at places people want to go and you'll get more volunteers. It's be said over and over again, but if you put those bad johnnies at MacDill, Eglin, Luke, McChord, Charleston, Hickham, Hanscom, Patrick, <insert sweet Navy coastal base here>, etc then I bet you'll see more people interested than if it's "wait, so I don't get to fly airplanes anymore AND you're sending me to Cannon? Sweet. I'm out."

I think this is simple...Put the GCS at places people want to go and you'll get more volunteers. It's be said over and over again, but if you put those bad johnnies at MacDill, Eglin, Luke, McChord, Charleston, Hickham, Hanscom, Patrick, <insert sweet Navy coastal base here>, etc then I bet you'll see more people interested than if it's "wait, so I don't get to fly airplanes anymore AND you're sending me to Cannon? Sweet. I'm out."

Lol Luke a sweet base? ;)

Lol Luke a sweet base? ;)

Google "ASU coeds"

To compound the problem, the current bottom of the barrel for 18Xers is terrifying.

You can say the same for bottom of the barrel AMC guys that are flying RPAs too. Every flying community has people who don't belong flying.

Any push for numbers is likely to decrease quality. Ask UPT instructors. They are being forced to push guys through that would have washed out not too long ago.

You can say the same for bottom of the barrel AMC guys that are flying RPAs too. Every flying community has people who don't belong flying.

Any push for numbers is likely to decrease quality. Ask UPT instructors. They are being forced to push guys through that would have washed out not too long ago.

I know, but this is worse since in most cases we are starting with a lower baseline of talent(18s) and motivation(11s) than you see in UPT. Add to that we've been in push mode for years and we are about to go to double push mode.

My grandad used to say "the world needs ditch-diggers too".

In this case, the world needs seat-meat for transit and ISR orbit management, too. MCC's know who they need to pay attention to more than others.

My grandad used to say "the world needs ditch-diggers too".

In this case, the world needs seat-meat for transit and ISR orbit management, too. MCC's know who they need to pay attention to more than others.

Not getting too much into mission specifics, but with new AORs our squadron often doesn't have the manning to limit certain pilots to NSTR orbits/particular supported units and transit. It also isn't a way to develop said "talent," when there is limited time for training. Don't get me wrong, we do our best to put good pilots in the game when we know its playoff time... but the playoffs are becoming more and more random.

Google "ASU coeds"

True. I guess compared to the other options it was the only one non costal so I was confused.

True. I guess compared to the other options it was the only one non costal so I was confused.

Not everyone wants to live on the coast...

True. I guess compared to the other options it was the only one non costal so I was confused.

Hollomon as well.

My grandad used to say "the world needs ditch-diggers too".

grandad?

edit for better picture

Edited May 30, 201510 yr by 12xu2a3x3

The McChord VML list came out today, 8 RPAs alone, 50% of the assignments (rest white jets).

Apparently, the last viper VML had > 50% of those eligible elect to 7 day opt.

The McChord VML list came out today, 8 RPAs alone, 50% of the assignments (rest white jets).

AMC wide I suppose...KLRF just dropped 9 ish RPAs.

Apparently, the last viper VML had > 50% of those eligible elect to 7 day opt.

Yeah, wanna know why? Because dudes are seeing the writing on the wall. The VML just prior to the last one (the spring 15) was a bloodbath; out of about 160 pilots on that VML (obviously not all currently in the cockpit - staff returns, etc), guess how many ops to ops assignments there were, as in going from a 3 year tour to another 3 year tour. Just guess.

One.

One ops to ops in the entire VML (and that includes going to teach at the b course). About 20 guys got to go to Korea, so about 20 left and if they were first assignment Korea guys they obviously got to stay in the jet. Everyone else? AETC tours teaching UPT or PIT (including PIT assignments following UPT - not a two plus two, but two full AETC assignments in a row), staff gigs, A29s, etc.

So when the community hears the AF crying about this major 11F/viper pilot shortage, but then nobody gets to actually stay in the jet (did have some guys go from Kunsan to Osan because it was the only way to stay in) dudes are bailing. Which I totally understand, because for a guy/gal to bust their ass for the 3 years it takes just to get to MQT, then work for 3 years in the sq, to then get nothing for it and face a career of 11F "required" assignments that aren't in the F16 - why would you stay?

*The most recent VML wasn't as bad as that one, but the porch is still telling us that expect only one pilot per base to go ops to ops, everyone else gets non-viper assignments. So the outlook is not very good, and folks in the community are tired of being told the AF needs them so badly, but then figuring out it isn't in the jet.

...out of about 160 pilots on that VML ... One ops to ops in the entire VML (and that includes going to teach at the b course)....

Damn. Those are downright terrible stats.

Anyone know the number or percentage of non-flying "11F required" billets vs. 11F flying billets? Seems like the ratio just keeps getting worse...

So when the community hears the AF crying about this major 11F/viper pilot shortage, but then nobody gets to actually stay in the jet (did have some guys go from Kunsan to Osan because it was the only way to stay in) dudes are bailing. Which I totally understand, because for a guy/gal to bust their ass for the 3 years it takes just to get to MQT, then work for 3 years in the sq, to then get nothing for it and face a career of 11F "required" assignments that aren't in the F16 - why would you stay?

Personnel mismanagement seems to be a common theme across the Air Force. It's not AFPC's job to be fair, but when they it up so badly that almost everyone wants to leave it becomes an issue.

At least 11F isn't under the pred gun.

The McChord VML list came out today, 8 RPAs alone, 50% of the assignments (rest white jets).

MC-12 had about the same on the fall vml (had almost 40 RPAs drop in one week).

Not sure if the remaining pilots have received assignments yet.

MC-12 had about the same on the fall vml (had almost 40 RPAs drop in one week). Not sure if the remaining pilots have received assignments yet.

Very soon; expect the number to be closer to 30% than 50% for the remaining MC-12 personnel. The 11F community stepping back from filling white jets will alter the situation slightly.

Bendy

Edited May 30, 201510 yr by Bender