Gun Talk

[StoleIt]

Dudes,

Searching through 144 pages is rough...just need some quick well-thought out (ha!) advice. Getting into the AR world, ordered my first RRA Elite Comp last month. After days of exhaustive research, I am still at a loss as to what optics to put on. I did a bunch of research at AR15.com, but I thought I would post here to get some input. Wondering if I should go the EoTech and 3x Mag route or should I go with an ACOG that has a RMR piggybacked or even a RMR or Micro T1 mounted offset? Primary use will be for the apocalypse/home defense, but I am guessing that isn't going to happen anytime soon so I will be shooting a bit at the range. 0-100 will be fun with a RDS/HWS, but I would also like to be able to shoot a bit further using some type of scope. Thoughts? Thanks fellas.

Sounds like budget isn't much of an issue with you since you are talking about optic combos here that cost more than the gun you just bought so here is my take:

Unless you are shooting 3-Gun/Competition the offset optic is stupid/unnecessary (to include the offset iron sights).

If you don't mind the extra weight then the red dot with a magnifier on a swivel mount is always popular. Make sure you pick your mounts correctly so you don't wind up with the red dot straddling the upper and top rail.

Personally, price is no object I would go with the ACOG with the RMR on top. You are talking $2k here but hell you brought it up...so why not? If you want to be slightly more thrifty a bunch of ACOGs have built in iron sights on the top of the optic also.

I have an ACOG on one of my Ar's and an Aimpoint M2 on the other. They are both great optics but the ACOG would be my SHTF option.

[Beaver]

Well, if money is no object then get a Schmidt and Bender Short Dot.

And a better gun.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Beaver

[B52gator]

And a better gun.

What would you suggest?...for future reference

[JarheadBoom]

What would you suggest?...for future reference

If money is no object...

Noveske

LMT

There's probably a few other marques that would fit the description, but those are the ones I think of when someone talks "cost is no factor" ARs.

BTW, m4carbine.net is a far better AR reference site IMO...

[Timbonez]

Well, if money is no object then get a Schmidt and Bender Short Dot.

And a better gun.

If money is no object...

Noveske

LMT

There's probably a few other marques that would fit the description, but those are the ones I think of when someone talks "cost is no factor" ARs.

BTW, m4carbine.net is a far better AR reference site IMO...

+1 to What Beaver and Jarhead said. Colt, KAC, BCM, LMT, Noveske, Daniel Defense, and a few others are all top of the line. Build quality and small parts are all superior to a RRA, DPMS, and Bushmaster (the three most popular civilian AR makers). With that being said, I would say hold on to your RRA and shoot it.

Do you need an optic right now? Why not spend more time learning the iron sights first and then move to an optic? Also, do you really need magnification? What distances are you going to be shooting at and what type of shooting is it going to be? If you're looking for benchresting and accuracy, then you will want magnification. If you're looking for something to put well aimed/placed hits on paper you will be better off if a 1x optic. Take a look at the Aimpoint Micro H-1. It's just like the T-1, but it's cheaper because it forgoes some of the extra stuff you probably won't use... like night vision device settings. It's an effective and light 1x optic. Use the left over money for ammo and practice/training.

http://www.aimpoint.com/products/all-products/product-singleview/product/Micro%20H-1/

Edited July 3, 2012 by Timbonez

[B52gator]

+1 to What Beaver and Jarhead said. Colt, KAC, BCM, LMT, Noveske, Daniel Defense, and a few others are all top of the line. Build quality and small parts are all superior to a RRA, DPMS, and Bushmaster (the three most popular civilian AR makers). With that being said, I would say hold on to your RRA and shoot it.

Do you need an optic right now? Why not spend more time learning the iron sights first and then move to an optic? Also, do you really need magnification? What distances are you going to be shooting at and what type of shooting is it going to be? If you're looking for benchresting and accuracy, then you will want magnification. If you're looking for something to put well aimed/placed hits on paper you will be better off if a 1x optic. Take a look at the Aimpoint Micro H-1. It's just like the T-1, but it's cheaper because it forgoes some of the extra stuff you probably won't use... like night vision device settings. It's an effective and light 1x optic. Use the left over money for ammo and practice/training.

http://www.aimpoint....ct/Micro%20H-1/

I have heard nothing but good things about RRA which is why I went with them. I did look at the ones you mentioned and when (not if!) I get another AR, I am going to go more high end. Anyway, as far as optics goes I think having something is better than nothing. At least a 1x RDS/HWS of some sort. Like I stated, primary use is going to be home defense, SHTF, type stuff, I want to be set-up primarily for that...but I will probably never use it in that scenario. When I do pick up another AR down the road, then I can have one built for HD and another built for mid-range to long range shooting. For now I plan on taking it to the range and shooting with the irons and RDS 0-100 as much as possible. I think it would be fun however to shoot beyond that which is why I posed the original question, before I drop a lot of coin, I want to be informed. I should probably mention that my vision is shit, I don't know if that has any bearing on the answer. I am thinking right now I will probably just go with a RDS and work up from there. I can always sell it if I want to upgrade to something different (ACOG, 1-4, etc). Any further advice is appreciated.

[Timbonez]

The reason why you have heard nothing but good things is that, like I said before, it is in the top 3 most popular AR makers. People who buy those rifles hear from a friend how awesome it is and then they buy one themselves. These are the same people who will likely only put 1000-2000 rounds, in 100 round installments, through the rifle. Detaching yourself from hearsay and doing a little research on each brand will reveal how different each manufacturer puts together their rifles and which ones follow the technical data package set out by the Army. While following the TDP and being mil-spec is not the be all and end all of making a quality rifle, it creates a minimum baseline that all manufacturers should strive for. RRA, Bushmaster, and DPMS fall short of many of the requirements spelled out in the TDP. In particular, RRA: uses a weaker steel for their barrel (4140), only chrome lines particular models' barrels, doesn't parkerize under the front sight post, uses a commercial receiver extension rather than a mil-spec one, uses a commercial bolt carrier instead of a full auto one, 1:9 twist rate instead of 1:7, etc. They are cutting corners. It doesn't make sense to buy a rifle that is similarly priced to rifles that are superior.

In the grand scheme of things, though, most people would probably be fine with a one of those more popular brands. In general, the shooting community doesn't actually shoot enough to notice the difference or run into malfunctions. That is why I said you should hold onto your RRA and enjoy shooting it. It will more than likely serve you well, but there are superior ARs. Right now, I own a Noveske and a LWRC mated to a no-name lower (trying to sell the LWRC). If I could do it all over again, I would probably buy a Noveske again or a Colt 6920.

To answer the rest of your post, I think sticking with irons and a RDS is the best course of action. That would be best suited for home defense where your possible engagement ranges are very short (unless you live on a ranch or in Orange County). Later on you can always buy a magnifier for your RDS or buy a magnified optic.

[M2]

Picked up a pristine Marlin Model 60 at the fun show this morning, $125 out the door and except for a few minor marks on the stock (which I've already fixed), it looks new.

I picked up a Ruger 10/22 a few months back and I can't wait to compare them. Most of what I've read is while there are more "goodies" for the Ruger, the Marlin is a better shooting rifle. The biggest difference is that it's tube-fed, and not magazined like the 10/22; but I am keeping it stock with the iron sights as most people recommend that.

Range report to follow...

Cheers! M2

[StoleIt]

M&P9 VTAC range report:

It shoots better than I do (which isn't hard since I am a terrible pistol marksman).

The sights take a little to get used to since they are a lot taller than normal sights.

Seems like the 4th to the last round or so I am getting a failure to feed. Then when I go to clear the weapon the round is pointing vertical or straight down in the mag so I can't even rack the slide to clear it. Happened a couple times. Still have less than 10 mag's through the gun total though so I am not jumping to any conclusions. I have two mags that came with the gun, need to number them and see if it's one or both of them doing it. And then go from there.

[brickhistory]

Walther P-1 (Or A Long Strange Trip)

I finally got to shoot this today.

Back in January, Bud's was running a special on these as surplus for, I think, $399, so I ordered one.

My alibi was I was moving from northern Virginia in late February to Omaha, Nebraska, but as Bud's had a great reputation on-line and with me for fast service, I figured no problem.

Wrong as usual. A sub-contractor was actually running this with Bud's marketing for them. Ordered, then an auto-delay of several weeks as soon as "submit" was hit. Crap...

Fortunately, my FFL (hat tip to Dominion Arms in Manassas if the mods will allow a plug) agreed to hold the gun until I could get back to move my family when school was out in June.

Meanwhile, I moved to Nebraska. Virginia is a very gun owner friendly state. This new one, surprisingly to me, not so much. There's a purchase permit required before you can even buy a gun which is a $5.00 gouge to get some bucks, but ok. After that, the state is ok with it. Omaha, however, is down right anti-gun. They require a new resident to register all guns with the police department (right, I'll get right on that...) and the gun license can't be used until you do register the newly purchased gun with the PD. The solution, of course, is not to buy within the city limits.

A way around all this BS, strangely enough, is to obtain a CCW, which I am doing. Wait six months as a new resident, take a class, shoot, fill out way too many forms, and bam!, the purchase permit and the registration is moot. Of course, in the meantime, I can't exercise my 2d Amendment right for six months.

I thank my friends across the Missouri River for stashing my firearms until I complete the hoops.

Now on to this review.

The pistol with one clip arrived in a cardboard box, wrapped in some wax paper inside a plastic bag. It came with one magazine of 8 round capacity. The standard grips are black plastic/bakelite. I replaced 'em with after-market wood grips as the photo shows.

The guns were sold surplus, so the luck of the draw existed. I, for once, got lucky. If mine had ever been issued, I would be surprised. Not a mark, scratch, or slightest bit of wear to be found. Mine was stamped "4/80" meaning it was manufactured in April, 1980. I have never seen a firearm as completely, utterly dry and unlubed as this one. After dissembly, not the slightest trace of oil/grease/gunk could be found. The barrel was pristine and clean. Lubed and checked, it was time to shoot.

The P1 is an aluminum descendant of the steel-framed P38 and is the same thing with lighter metal.

This is a big gun. As big as a Government model 1911 but in a 9mm flavor. That size soaked up recoil magnificently. There was basicially none. I imagine a steel-frame version would barely buck at all. The workmanship and fit of the gun is really, really good. Nothing loose, nothing rattled, no rough edges.

If I got the history right, the P38 was the first successful double-action semi-auto pistol. The slide is open-top like the Beretta M9 which I think borrowed heavily from this way back when.

The double-action trigger is heavy. As in cranky lawnmower rope pull heavy. There's no "accidently" pulling the trigger on this with the hammer down. In single action, it is great. A light (for a service pistol) clean, crisp break. No creep at all.

The design seemed to be idiot-proof. Like the trigger, the magazine release is not something you are going to manipulate accidently. It's a small slide-like switch at the bottom butt of the grip. Hard/impossible to do one-handed, but clever in placement and design, it only took a few magazines to get used to it.

The sights are big. A white dot on the front with a smallish white horizontal line between the two sides of the large rear sight. Kinda Heinie-like, but not exactly. I'd rather just go without it, but it's already painted on, so no worries.

The gun was accurate. I put 150 rounds (by the way, this is an older design so no "modern" +P or hotter loads) at a B-27 target at 25 feet. All but 2 flyaways were in the 9 ring and most in the upper 10 ring. Most were untimed, placed shots with only a few magazines used on rapid fire and/or double-action. Accuracy suffered accordingly during those.

Don't know what the problem was, but at first the slide wouldn't lock back when a clip was empty. As the morning progressed, it did. Break in the springs and/or magazines?

One problem that really is an issue is this got hot. At 100 rounds, the frame was hot. The wraparound wood grips helped as I imagine the side-covering only plastic grips would allow the frame in the grip to transfer that heat to my palm.

At 120 rounds, the trigger was hot. By the end, it was painful and raising a blister so it was time to call it a day with this one.

Take down is pretty standard; drop the magazine, slide to the rear, rotate the takedown lever down, slide forward, barrel out of the slide, and there you go.

There are is a small spring on each side of the slide instead of the one in the center as in most semi-autos. Of course, since the barrel is sticking out there on its own and not inside the slide where the recoil spring can push against the mechanism, this was Walther's early 1940s way of solving the problem. One of the reasons why +P ammo is frowned upon. That and the frame isn't going to stand up to the higher pressures over a lifetime as it wasn't designed for them either. This gun does have the "hex screw" in the frame which was a way to increase frame strengh, but still, just don't do it.

So, for a historical service weapon, I'm happy with it. It's well-made, it's in great shape, it shoots great and it makes the 5th Walther in my cabinet. The standard issue of the German Army and most police forces until replaced in the 1990s and later, it proved it's longevity and reliability.

It would never be my "go to" gun for anything other than the range, but I like it and recommend it for the right price and in the right condition.

Edited July 9, 2012 by brickhistory

[Timbonez]

Nice write up, Brick. I always enjoy your thorough reviews.

[Fuzz]

A way around all this BS, strangely enough, is to obtain a CCW, which I am doing. Wait six months as a new resident, take a class, shoot, fill out way too many forms, and bam!, the purchase permit and the registration is moot. Of course, in the meantime, I can't exercise my 2d Amendment right for six months.

That's ok, trying to get my CCW in Oklahoma, by law they have 60-90 days to issue you your license, I'm 2 weeks past the 90 days so I contacted the OK SBI, and they said it would be another 4 weeks. When I cited the law stating I should already have my answer; they just said yeah we know.

[ChkHandleDn]

I received my Interarms AK-47 from Atlantic Firearms last week. Great customer service, fast shipping. I'm not exactly M2-level/an AK expert, but my first impressions of the rifle was that I made a good choice. Fit and finish were excellent. No front sight cant, no mag wobble with the surplus steel mag supplied. Barrel is from Green Mountain and receiver is marked with Elk River, wood furniture is surplus but in great shape. Shot about 150 rounds of Wolf 123 gr with zero issues in a 25yd range. Overall, very happy with the purchase.

On another note, I just started my AR build much to my wife's chagrin. I told her it was going to be for her but she was less than thrilled. I ended up going with a BCM BCG, PSA M4 16" Upper with YHM rail, PSA LPK and Gadsden Lower:

They had free shipping and the prices were just too good not to pass up.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Mi Scusi!

[M2]

Well, after being dicked over by someone on a local gun forum on a milled Russian AK parts kit, karma decided to reward me for my suffering at the hands of a fool...

I stopped by an Academy sports store on my way home from work to pick up some more ammo for the Marlin I bought and shot this past weekend, and guess what was sitting in the display case? You got it, a XDs!

As you may know, I have been looking for one for months now, and even at this past weekend's gun show all the vendors I talked with said they were near impossible to get. But it's always better to be lucky than good, and today I was really lucky!

Although I knew it was pretty much certain I would buy it, I asked to handle it first at which point it was certain I would buy it! The thing fits perfectly in my hand, it's probably the smallest possible .45 ACP weapon that still feels like a real pistol! I can easily get a solid 2½ fingers on the grip and it is near perfectly balanced. It is slim (1" wide) and I have no problems getting a strong grip on it. Honestly, it is everything Springfield claimed it to be and more!

Price was $529.99 + tax, and of course I had to buy some SD ammo because I wasn't going to carry this baby home unloaded! I most likely will take it out to the range on Saturday and see how it feels to my XD-45 Service, which has been my favorite 'go-to' pistol for years but which may now have some strong competition from its little brother!

I will take some pics of it next to the XD and post them up for comparison's sake, but I am happy (and redemption has occurred) as this is the one firearm I wanted to purchase in 2012!

Cheers! M2

[brickhistory]

Looking forward to the XDs report. Will get it and/or the M&P Shield as soon as I'm legal again. M&P fits my hand, but .45 is way nicer than 9mm.

[M2]

Here are the pics...

First, the XDs next to my XD-45 Service:

Comparing the slide lengths:

And the grip lengths:

Staring down the barrel of loaded guns:

Next to my Taurus PT709 Slim:

Next to a Taurus PT738 TCP (same size as a LCP, P3AT, etc):

So not a "micro" in any sense, about the same size and width as my Taurus Slim but carrying 5+1 .45ACP versus 7+1 of 9mm.

If most reports of it being a good shooter for its size are true, I can easily see this being an alternate carry weapon in addition to an excellent BUG.

Cheers! M2

[HossHarris]

How's it compare to a 3" 1911 (other than holding fewer rounds)? Looks to be about 4" barrel?

Edited July 11, 2012 by HossHarris

[cragspider]

M2 that awesome that you actually found one let alone take it home with you. Looking forward to the range report on this one.

[M2]

How's it compare to a 3" 1911 (other than holding fewer rounds)? Looks to be about 4" barrel?

Hoss, I don't own one but since an Officer-length 1911 is 3.5" and this XDs is 3.3", I would say they barrel-wise they are close; but the XDs is slimmer and the grip shorter.

I don't trust short 1911s, every one I've shot has had issues feeding ammo/ejecting casings. They're nice looking, but the reliability just doesn't seem to be there from my experience. I don't think the 1911 was meant to be that short...

Hopefully I'll have a range report this Saturday.

Cheers! M2

[Royal]

I don't trust short 1911s, every one I've shot has had issues feeding ammo/ejecting casings. They're nice looking, but the reliability just doesn't seem to be there from my experience. I don't think the 1911 was meant to be that short...

M2, have you shot the P238?

[M2]

M2, have you shot the P238?

Nope, but I have shot other compact 1911-style pistols, and none gained my confidence to a level of staking my life on one.

Plus, while I do own a Taurus PT738 TCP; I am not the biggest fan of .380 either for just shooting or self-defense. My Tuarus cost me about $250 if I recall correctly, that Sig is almost three times that...

Cheers! M2

[bagasticks]

Just finished my M1a build.. M1a scout, mounted in a Sage ALCS/EBR chassis, Vortex hider, Magpul buttstock, hogue grip, Aimpoint Pro Patrol. Range reports coming.. I can state that it was just under 1" moa before the optic (Rock Island gets around .50 moa on this rig with a 22" barrel and a Leupold before the issue it to our boys down range).

[M2]

OK, I just got back from shooting my new XDs and here’s a report…

Things went pretty much as expected, I put 90 rounds through it, mainly Winchester White Box FMJ but also some Federal Hydra-Shok JHPs (I won’t carry a pistol until I’ve shot some SD rounds through it) and it was absolutely flawless.

Not a single hiccup, everything fed and ejected as expected. Almost boring in its reliability, which is a good thing. I wish all my guns were so “boring” in this regard!

So, the pros. First, as I stated, it’s typically Springfield. 100% reliable, accurate and I was amazed at how comfortable the recoil was for such a small pistol. It is easy to get on target and keep it there, I fired numerous mags in quick succession and kept all the rounds on target.

The cons? Well, that’s a tough one. It does spit brass a good ways away, but I didn’t have any in the face like a few have reported. They were a good ten feet to my right, but honestly the only time that’s an issue for me is at the range when I collect the stuff for reloading.

My second “criticism” is that I wish Springfield would give us a magazine loaded like the one I got with my XD. I was using an aftermarket 1911 loader which worked fine (the springs were stiff on both mags), but a XDs version of a Springfield XD loader would be gratefully appreciated (Springfield, are you listening?)

Otherwise, about my only other “complaint” is that the gun got dirty. But I was thoroughly impressed with it. I brought my XD-45 Service along to compare the two, and the bigger pistol is more accurate (longer barrel) and easier to shoot (heavier); but I’ve also got a lot more trigger time with it so shooting it comes more natural for me.

But as for the XDs, it is everything Springfield claims it is and more. It is characteristically a XD…well built, reliable, and extremely accurate. Even with only 90 rounds I know it is a dependable carry weapon and have no qualms in doing so. Six rounds may not be as good as 13 my XD holds, but not all situations allow carrying such a large pistol (although I have been doing so for six years now without any issues). I will still most likely garb my XD first but if things warrant a smaller weapon, the XDs works period, dot, no question about it.

Cheers! M2

[brickhistory]

Nice report.

How about the size of the grip? With a .45, my thought would be that if you can't get all fingers on it, it will be awkward/uncomfortable to shoot?

That's my complaint about a PPK or the Taurus PT series. With the shorter clip, I have to curl my pinkie under it and I don't much care for that.

Is it big enough and if not, does or will Springfield make an extended magazine?

[StoleIt]

Just finished my M1a build.. M1a scout, mounted in a Sage ALCS/EBR chassis, Vortex hider, Magpul buttstock, hogue grip, Aimpoint Pro Patrol. Range reports coming.. I can state that it was just under 1" moa before the optic (Rock Island gets around .50 moa on this rig with a 22" barrel and a Leupold before the issue it to our boys down range).

Nice! How much does it weight? My M1A loaded with Sadlak gucci parts got sub MOA but it weights a metric shit ton.

.648 MOA

100 yard 3 shot group.