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To be fair, the PIT enterprise at RND produces a flying instructor that is orders of magnitude better than what the FAA's CFI-creation process is. I went to PIT as a salty O-4 who already had more than one IPUG program under my belt, and as @BashiChuni mentioned the "Instructor Fundamentals" academic course taught by the blue-suiters was the first time in my career that the AF had actually made an attempt to teach me how to instruct. It was probably one of the most useful academic courses in my entire AF career. It wasn't perfect, by any stretch, but it actually codified processes to both platform instruct in the briefing room, as well as gave specific tools on finding root causes and instructional fixes to in-flight performance. It actually explained and put names on a bunch of tools that numerous Patch-wearers and IPs had been trying to explain (but were not actually teaching me) in the process of mashing my balls to mush in hour 13 of the DCA IPUG debrief. That course at PIT could have actually used a healthy dash of improvement with some of the WIC processes that were vogue out in the ops world at the time (the "perception-decision-execution" method of root cause analysis, for example), but it was good. It is something that *all* new instructors at every level of the training pipeline could really use.

This. It’s been 15 years since my first ride in the Viper and I’ve done precisely one form approach for non-training reasons...and we split to land. Practice form approaches if you think it’s valuable, but I can’t think of a solid reason to practice the landings in a modern fighter. Even if you really shit the bed with fuel planning to a socked-in field with zero divert options, I’m pretty sure most of us would make it happen even if we’ve never done one. This same discussion is happening on the OFP Facebook page with dudes pitching in their “form land war stories” (barf). What do they all have in common? F-4s and Thuds. Get over it, dinosaurs.

..."and weather forecaster"... Wonder if he knew his forecast was cloudy with chance of $h1tstorm?

You really don’t think that’s a skill you should have? Especially as an A-10 guy? The odds of anyone getting BDA and losing radios and/or Nav equipment and needing a formation letdown through the weather would be higher in your community than any other I would think. And by your logic, why are you practicing BFM? I’m sure you’ve never done any no kidding BFM in combat. I bet you’ve strafed, maybe marked a few targets, and dropped PGM. However, I’m sure you’ve applied “BFM concepts” to a bunch of things. That is why I think form approaches are a good thing. Thoughts?

Formation landings are an unnecessary risk and have no reason to be done. They should be removed from UPT. When shit goes bad there’s very little chance of being able to recover from it. I have only done 1 in the CAF, and that’s only because it was on an old syllabus that no longer requires them.

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Thanks!

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Fantastic and we appreciate your efforts. So many TALCE’s working including ours. It was a great show of force and long long days of non-stop dedication. Will always remember HH-60 assessment flights and the Aegis cruiser being different colors on each side (like it was sandblasted), 60ft yacht miles inland by itself and railroad tracks pushed inland 20-30ft or more. New Orleans was a disaster, but mostly a man-made one. Hurricane was a direct hit/smashed MS with its right front quadrant. So many units, so many heroes. Thanks again to all who came on a dime and saved many!

There’s a big difference between a form approach and a form landing. If I was dragging someone through the weather, or being dragged, it will be with them as far away from me as possible (preferably route), and only until the we break out of the weather. Then I’m going around, chase, or pushing them out to combat trail depending where we broke out. I wont be going anywhere near the flare, especially if any of the flight controls are disconnected or there is damage affecting controllability. If there’s nowhere to get through the weather and they are flying in man reversion then they aren’t getting anywhere near me on the wing. They are flying somewhere safe and punching out. We don’t train for form takeoffs or landings. At the most you’ll do a form approach, but I can’t remember the last time I’ve talked to anyone that has done one. I don’t think there a reason to fly them below the DA/VDP.

We all agree in principle that there'd be a credibility problem with the direct-to-PIT business. Fortunately it is the exception, at least in 38s. Lots of 2+2s abound, which is better than nothing I suppose. Also recognize there are many on here for whom the program hasn't, and never will have, any redeeming qualities whatsoever. But that's a sunk cost of working within a demographic of self-important type-As; that's just a Tuesday in pilot land. Between the time you went through the 560th halls and today, the place has been the recipient of every possible 19th concocted good idea fairy shitshow imaginable, and will be the initial cadre for UPT2.5. Manning demographics in the middle of these constant whipsaws sometimes gets lost in translation. We're all innocent in Shawshank; everybody is trying to make brick, even when the Pharaoh won't send any straw. Just some context. Now back to our regularly programmed sport-kvetching. 😄

Are you saying there are PIT IP's that have not done a tour as a UPT IP? If so, that's crazy. It was not that way when I was in the 560th (except for a few O-5's and above, I believe).

There's no decision that's too conservative for the risk-averse faction of AF management.

They were the greatest

That's exactly what works damned near every time. The only time we've gone down to "turn" with a helo was to blow through and get them to wheel underneath to keep the aggressor in sight (just like we do with a "circle the Hogs"), inevitably leading to a climb as they look up. Then the other guy runs in for a low-to-high Fox II. Oh, and in the sim when they tell you there's blue helos in the scenario but they turn out to be ten hostile Hinds swarming under you. Then, when you get tired of them shooting at you, you drop into the middle of them and just turn the gun on whilst pulling six Gs. Absolutely Leeroy Jenkins. Got four of the bastards... even surprised myself.

@HuggyU2 what was it like learning to fly in the T-6 Texan 1?

Never never ever speak to a FBI agent without your lawyer in the room and never never ever hire a law firm where Eric Holder is a partner if you work for a Republican President. Spent 5 years in DC , I hated every second of it. Disbarments and indictments for everyone. But will not hold my breath to see perp walks of key members of the last administration. Two tiered justice system, if you think this would never happen to you but they went after a retired 3 star General our country and Constitution is doomed.

Alright ya'll figured I'd offer what I have. I spent at least a couple weeks trying to get in touch with a pilot at the 199th fighter squadron. Finally managed to get one of the AD pilots who passed me the email of the squadron DO Lt Col Horton. I emailed him and he informed me that the HI ANG does not keep a set schedule on their boards and the only way to get board information is indeed to go through the recruiters. He put me in contact with the recruiter that deals directly with their boards MSgt Manalo. PM me if you are interested and I will give you her contact info. I sent her an email and she reached out to make sure I had all the prerequisites done (AFOQT etc.) and then she sent me the requirements for the application package. She has a database started and will shoot out a mass alert to submit your package when the submission date drops for the UPT board. The 199th, 203rd, and 204th run joint boards so she will be the gate keeper for all 3 if you are interested in something other than the F-22's as well.