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Track Selects and Assignment Nights

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matmacwc    1,093
On 3/13/2017 at 9:58 AM, Duck said:

An unforeseen consequence of the lack of 11F presence in Phase II I would imagine as well as the ability to quickly build hours in the MAF. I also see more younger guys already building exit plans from AD.

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No, ever heard or PIC?  All hours are not the same.  100% of fighter hours are PIC from nearly the start.  I would think AFRC fighter hours would get you passed 1500 quicker.

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Duck    852
No, ever heard or PIC?  All hours are not the same.  100% of fighter hours are PIC from nearly the start.  I would think AFRC fighter hours would get you passed 1500 quicker.


"Ever heard or PIC?" Not sure what you're trying to get at...

I don't know brother. Leaving the ANG/Reserves out of it, almost all the AD heavy guys I know upgraded to AC in 1-2 years and had 1000 multi-engine PIC time less than 2 years after that. Some of my bros in the fighter world are just now hitting the 1,000 hour mark by their O-4 board due to bad deployment timing, the stand down in the CAF, etc. And for all my viper brothers it's all single engine time.

I realize the hours aren't the same, and as far as I know their isn't a consistent way of converting between the two. Is 1,000 viper hours equal to 3,000 C-17 PIC hours? What about T-6 IP time or T-38? These days it seems like it is all the extra stuff getting dudes hired (IP/EP, Safety, WIC, AIS... etc.

I'm trying to figure out why the kids don't want to be AD fighter pilots as much as they used to when I went through. I don't think you can discount that there is 0% 11F influence in Phase II while the students are at their most impressionable part in their aviation career.

What do you think?




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matmacwc    1,093

I think you are correct about the influence in Phase II, I also think the kids see fighter guys defiantly deploying for 6 months at a time and might be getting told the heavy bro's just out and back the crappy locations.  When I was a Phase III dude, we used to hang out in the T-6 flights that were about to track and just talk to them, don't know if it helped or not.  The students these days are much better informed than we probably ever were (I graduated in Sep 2001, yes, that month), I just wanted to fly fast and drink with my friends, didn't see that as an option with the heavy side of the house.  Now days, they can read this web site or immediately text their friends and CAF and MAF units to find out whats up, and whats up is the CAF dudes are complaining loudly, not sure about the MAF.

My point about flying hours is the new heavy pups getting hours that are not PIC don't necessarily help them get airline jobs, I'm sure it doesn't hurt though.  You did clarify upgrades and PIC time, in heavies, to me.  The fighter guys have gotten a .3 or .2 per sortie addition to their hours on airlineapps, that can push a dude over the hump early I would think.

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Magnum    13
2 hours ago, Duck said:

I'm trying to figure out why the kids don't want to be AD fighter pilots as much as they used to when I went through. I don't think you can discount that there is 0% 11F influence in Phase II while the students are at their most impressionable part in their aviation career.

What do you think?

In the immortal words of Snooze, "being a fighter pilot won't get you pu$$y no more."

And also Top Gun is really old.  The kids these days were born in the late 90's.  They don't even understand the SNL reference...

 

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euser    1
4 hours ago, Duck said:

 

I'm trying to figure out why the kids don't want to be AD fighter pilots as much as they used to when I went through. I don't think you can discount that there is 0% 11F influence in Phase II while the students are at their most impressionable part in their aviation career.

What do you think?
 

 

What turned me off of fighters was how shitty of a life fighter guys I know and have met make it out to be. All I've ever seen is complaining about a plethora of things like the constant getting shafted by big blue and it becoming so restrictive and reg loaded that it was no longer enjoyable and barely possible to do the mission. Most of the guys I knew said they enjoyed their time, but they were all quick to abandoned ship once the obligation was up. I don't mind a high deployment tempo or anything like that, my end goal is rescue (helicopters). I've just seen some big differences between the apparent enjoyment of the job between these two communities, and if I have to be there for at least 10 years I'd like to enjoy it. Obviously I've never experienced either community from the inside so I know I don't totally understand it, but its how its appeared to me from the outside looking in. That being said, I joined to do things no civilian organization is able to do, so I'd still take fighters over heavy.

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Duck    852

I know of guys on the heavy side gone 280-300 days a year. The mentality was if you weren't on the road, you weren't making money... Granted that was several years ago.


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VMFA187    79
20 hours ago, Magnum said:

In the immortal words of Snooze, "being a fighter pilot won't get you pu$$y no more."

And also Top Gun is really old.  The kids these days were born in the late 90's.  They don't even understand the SNL reference...

 

Valid.

I'm an instructor at Miramar - Where the movie was filmed, where we still send studs to go land on boats... And some of these kids going through haven't seen it.

Ridiculous.

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the g-man    28
I know of guys on the heavy side gone 280-300 days a year. The mentality was if you weren't on the road, you weren't making money... Granted that was several years ago.

 

 

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As a co in a single sq C-17 base... I was gone probably around 100 days last year. Only TDY, no deployments

 

 

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Lstcause257    6
As a co in a single sq C-17 base... I was gone probably around 100 days last year. Only TDY, no deployments
 
 
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Are you at Elmo? Rumor I heard is they are 180% manned because they became an associate unit to the AK guard.


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Bowser36    9
On 3/19/2017 at 8:07 PM, euser said:

I don't mind a high deployment tempo or anything like that, my end goal is rescue (helicopters).

Just realize you might not be as excited in six to nine years when you're married with kids and on your sixth deployment.

That said, glad you're excited to get out and contribute to the current fight. No matter the path you choose, you'll be busy.

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the g-man    28

Are you at Elmo? Rumor I heard is they are 180% manned because they became an associate unit to the AK guard.


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Nope. It's AMC on the east coast


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Day Man    577
30 minutes ago, the g-man said:


Nope. It's AMC on the east coast


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Why the pseudo-OPSEC? You already said you lived in Philly in another thread...

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Spaceballs    15
On 3/20/2017 at 7:21 PM, Bowser36 said:

Just realize you might not be as excited in six to nine years when you're married with kids and on your sixth deployment.

 

Edited by Spaceballs

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Spaceballs    15
On 3/20/2017 at 7:21 PM, Bowser36 said:

J

What turned a lot of guys in my class off of fighters were the fighter pilots that we did have in phase II. 

Edited by Spaceballs

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HossHarris    525
2 hours ago, Spaceballs said:

What turned a lot of guys in my class off of fighters were the fighter pilots that we did have in phase II. 

Only the best of the best get hand selected to go groom the next generation in aetc. 

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Duck    852
Only the best of the best get hand selected to go groom the next generation in aetc. 

Hand-picked... like a booger.


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FishBowl    54
On 3/19/2017 at 4:15 PM, Magnum said:

In the immortal words of Snooze, "being a fighter pilot won't get you pu$$y no more."

And also Top Gun is really old.  The kids these days were born in the late 90's.  They don't even understand the SNL reference...

 

Magnum,

While I agree with what you're saying, that kind of thinking is dangerous...

You're dangerous.

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hindsight2020    225
3 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Only the best of the best get hand selected to go groom the next generation in aetc. 

Yeah buddy. Sarcasm aside, communities can't complain about perception if their ambassadors suck. Can't blame the kids for that.

 

Edited by hindsight2020
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Cooter    25
On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 7:21 PM, Bowser36 said:

Just realize you might not be as excited in six to nine years when you're married with kids and on your sixth deployment.

That said, glad you're excited to get out and contribute to the current fight. No matter the path you choose, you'll be busy.

Just realize you might be MORE than excited after a dozen deployments, a year of school and two years of staff that you'd do anything to get back to that...literally anything.

Be careful what you wish for down the line, those three years combined are enough to make anybody want to suck start a 12-gauge...unless you're ONE of those people.  AND yes I do mean YOU people. 

"Counting down my 13 months to go" Cooter

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brabus    519
On 3/19/2017 at 7:07 PM, euser said:

What turned me off of fighters was how shitty of a life fighter guys I know and have met make it out to be. All I've ever seen is complaining about a plethora of things like the constant getting shafted by big blue and it becoming so restrictive and reg loaded that it was no longer enjoyable and barely possible to do the mission. Most of the guys I knew said they enjoyed their time, but they were all quick to abandoned ship once the obligation was up. I don't mind a high deployment tempo or anything like that, my end goal is rescue (helicopters). I've just seen some big differences between the apparent enjoyment of the job between these two communities, and if I have to be there for at least 10 years I'd like to enjoy it. Obviously I've never experienced either community from the inside so I know I don't totally understand it, but its how its appeared to me from the outside looking in. That being said, I joined to do things no civilian organization is able to do, so I'd still take fighters over heavy.

That's unfortunate this picture was painted for you.  Recognize you're likely talking to some very jaded fighter pilots at a UPT base who feel screwed over because they're one of the few 11Fs at UPT while a large portion of their bros are still raging in fighters on their 2nd or 3rd CAF assignment (and there certainly is valid reason for why that is) . I recommend you take their views with a very large grain of salt.  I also say this as a warning to any other UPT studs or prospective ones out there reading this.

That said, realize a few things you described above (high deployment rate, getting shafted by the AD, etc.) is common across all aircraft.  The fighter or heavy worlds do not have that market cornered...the AD will fuck everyone over equally for the most part.  FWIW, my heavy friends have spent significantly more time away from home than I have...as a general statement.  They may not do as many 6 month deployments, but they're routinely on the road 200+ days/yr.  Maybe that's not true every single year over the past decade, but it certainly is true for a large chunk of that period...at least amongst some friends I keep in touch with who fly anything from -17s to KC-10s.  Of course basing, timing, etc. all drive flexing in said numbers, but the point is I am home more as a fighter guy on average than my peers in several other communities.

Lastly, the lifestyle/job is fucking awesome, and that's why I'm going to continue to do it.  The AD is the problem and what makes life/work suck, it has nothing to do with community type.  In my opinion of course.

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HossHarris    525

It's  like having the most awesome job in the world, with an awesome team of coworkers. But having to do that job in a prison. 

Its a sweet gig. But you're still in a prison. 

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SocialD    385
14 hours ago, brabus said:

Recognize you're likely talking to some very jaded fighter pilots at a UPT base who feel screwed over because they're one of the few 11Fs at UPT while a large portion of their bros are still raging in fighters on their 2nd or 3rd CAF assignment (and there certainly is valid reason for why that is) . 

Not enough Christmas party planning?  

Edited by SocialD

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hindsight2020    225
5 hours ago, HossHarris said:

It's  like having the most awesome job in the world, with an awesome team of coworkers. But having to do that job in a prison. 

Its a sweet gig. But you're still in a prison. 

Yeah but in here, I can get you cigarettes. On the outside, I'm some washed up G-suit wearing has been. :D Life is simpler in Shawshank, never mind we men may find ourselves a bit, 'institutionalized'..

43a8ae8d44f701af8b19defd8d5c99f9.gif.e31b8eca3231e1388d76f975bfcaa8ea.gif

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brabus    519
7 hours ago, SocialD said:

Not enough Christmas party planning?  

Christmas isn't enough, you better have at least one change of command under your belt. 

 

Edited by brabus
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euser    1
22 hours ago, brabus said:

That's unfortunate this picture was painted for you.  Recognize you're likely talking to some very jaded fighter pilots at a UPT base who feel screwed over because they're one of the few 11Fs at UPT while a large portion of their bros are still raging in fighters on their 2nd or 3rd CAF assignment (and there certainly is valid reason for why that is) . I recommend you take their views with a very large grain of salt.  I also say this as a warning to any other UPT studs or prospective ones out there reading this.

Lastly, the lifestyle/job is ing awesome, and that's why I'm going to continue to do it.  The AD is the problem and what makes life/work suck, it has nothing to do with community type.  In my opinion of course.

Thats good to know. I've always taken it all with somewhat of a grain of salt having fighter pilots in my family, but they were all from back in the day. My Col back in ROTC did a good job at turning everyone off of the Air Force in general. I'm not sure if it was because he just had come from the high speed life of a fighter wing commander or what, but he basically made it sound like you had to be absolutely perfect in everything you do, or you weren't value added and he would derail your career. We were all pretty terrified of failing miserably and getting forced out.

I'm not sure of the workings behind that decision, but it seems odd that a training squadron is where they'd send the lower performers. I grew up Navy and many of my family/friends are Navy pilots, and from what I've gathered from them its typically the top guys going to the RAG/training squadrons for their shore duty. Is it just because the numbers are so low, or has it always been considered not great orders?

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