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Promotion and PRF Information

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10559764_911560018915500_678645134935875

Edit to add: With DP carrying so much weight at this level, Wing Commanders are really the ones promoting people, which is probably a good thing.

Edited by Homestar

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The "non-select" phone call came Monday. Unfortunately, a Wg/CC DP wasn't enough... But here's a toast to the selects. To those who didn't - To those who did! A round on me...

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Don't have all the stats.. but overall 72% promotion rate. As far as AFSOC... the "P" had a promotion rate of 28%....just wow. Also know of one WIC (DG) passed over as well. Guess it's not an O5 patch anymore.

Overall those with only a "P" promoted at 36% across the board

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Here's some more stats I pulled from the promotion list:

1,451 total selects

- 145 were BTZ with school

- 72 were I/APZ with school

- 1,234 were I/APZ

Personally, I'd like to know more about the DP non selects... Is this because SRs are trying to play the system? Or items missing from their promotion folder? I'm sure these guys are good dudes, and we're supposed to have checks and balances to double check that the DPs go to the right people.

-9-

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Edited by Nineline

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So it's good to be a Mission Support guy with no PME and a DP.

The MSG and no PME qualifiers are red herrings.

Truth be told, it's good to be a line officer with a DP regardless of any other qualifiers (IPZ speaking).

-9-

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Edited by Nineline
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The "non-select" phone call came Monday. Unfortunately, a Wg/CC DP wasn't enough... But here's a toast to the selects. To those who didn't - To those who did! A round on me...

Were you IPZ? If so, damn, that sucks. Any negative indicators (if you don't mind sharing)--failed PT test in the past, LOR, etc?

Quick math shows me that 58% of those IPZ got DP's...without doing the math for the previous years, I wonder how this compares to the recent past?

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Were you IPZ? If so, damn, that sucks. Any negative indicators (if you don't mind sharing)--failed PT test in the past, LOR, etc?

Quick math shows me that 58% of those IPZ got DP's...without doing the math for the previous years, I wonder how this compares to the recent past?

The DP allocation was 40% last year for IPZ, and this year was 60%.

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Anyone know when the PRF accounting date was for this year's LAF O-5 eligibles? No .mil access right now.

Also know of one WIC (DG) passed over as well.

IDE-complete (in any form)?

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Anyone know when the PRF accounting date was for this year's LAF O-5 eligibles? No .mil access right now.

IDE-complete (in any form)?

October, I think.

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October, I think.

Concur. The last 3-4 years it has always been the first couple of weeks in October. So for you non-top 25% Captains/Majors out there who want a decent shot at making O-5, become familiar with what the PRF accounting date is and work with your leadership (and AFPC) to plan accordingly. PCS'ing to your new job less than a few months before the IPZ PRF accounting date is (in most cases) not recommended...so try not to get lost (and screwed) in the shuffle.

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So for you non-top 25% Captains/Majors out there who want a decent shot at making O-5, become familiar with what the PRF accounting date is and work with your leadership (and AFPC) to plan accordingly.

Lots of those types have planned accordingly and will continue to do so by going to the ARC to make O-5.

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Were you IPZ? If so, damn, that sucks. Any negative indicators (if you don't mind sharing)--failed PT test in the past, LOR, etc?

Quick math shows me that 58% of those IPZ got DP's...without doing the math for the previous years, I wonder how this compares to the recent past?

Yeah, this was IPZ. My record was clean - PT tests in the high 90's too. First thing that comes to mind is a 6- and 12-month deployment bookended by mild or weak Senior Rater push lines. Beyond that, it's an admin fail or ..just.. anyone's guess.

There was another comment about positioning non-selects for the APZ board. I'm laughing, because -in this case- I've been TDY en-route to PCS for the last three months. If I had a chance to be in anyone's top XX%, that ship has sailed.

Offer still stands - selects and pass-overs get a round on me!

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I'm interested to hear how the twice passed over guys fared. Out of 3 guys I know, 2 were offered TERA, and 1 was continued. The one continued has prior RPA experience. Hmmmm.

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Concur. The last 3-4 years it has always been the first couple of weeks in October. So for you non-top 25% Captains/Majors out there who want a decent shot at making O-5, become familiar with what the PRF accounting date is and work with your leadership (and AFPC) to plan accordingly. PCS'ing to your new job less than a few months before the IPZ PRF accounting date is (in most cases) not recommended...so try not to get lost (and screwed) in the shuffle.

Assuming you have any control over when you PCS. I PCS'd right before the majors board...no DP. I knew I wasn't a shiny penny, but I didn't think I was in the bottom 25% of my year group.

Well, at least I got promoted...so that's something. Plenty of room for the crusty old majors, twice passed over, teaching the new guys how to fly the jet at the FTU, I guess. Or, if even half the folks who got DPs and school slots who talk about getting out actually do it, the pool will be much shallower for my O-5 board.

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Anyone know when the PRF accounting date was for this year's LAF O-5 eligibles? No .mil access right now.

IDE-complete (in any form)?

Yes

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Assuming you have any control over when you PCS. I PCS'd right before the majors board...no DP. I knew I wasn't a shiny penny, but I didn't think I was in the bottom 25% of my year group.

Well, at least I got promoted...so that's something. Plenty of room for the crusty old majors, twice passed over, teaching the new guys how to fly the jet at the FTU, I guess. Or, if even half the folks who got DPs and school slots who talk about getting out actually do it, the pool will be much shallower for my O-5 board.

For Major (with high promotion rates), the PRF accounting date isn't 'as important' (why I focused on O-5 board). As a Major, if you're not in the top 25% then you weren't a school select in your O-4 board (and these days getting picked up for IDE without being a select is very difficult) means that there's not always much of a difference necessarily between a guy in the top 1/3 or a guy in the middle, and that can mean the difference in getting a DP/strong push or not. Most likely the guy signing your PRF, and more importantly the O-5's and O-6's in your chain, are most likely to push harder for a person they know and have seen work hard for the last 2-3 years vs a guy who just PCS'd a few months before they rack and stack the guys meeting their IPZ board.

As for AFPC screwing people over on PCS'ing people right before their PRF accounting date, my personal experience (and anecdotal evidence from my buds) is that they try and not do this, especially when you or your CC reminds them of the fact and that delaying the PCS for a few months could mean the difference in your career. YMMV, but if you don't understand the process and aren't at least trying to fight for yourself then you only have yourself to blame for not taking ownership of the process as best you could. Now for those who don't want to make/don't care about making O-5 then sure, do what you want. Unfortunately, these days some really good people are being shown the door early for not getting promoted, which totally sucks, but is the reality. So why not at least try and help yourself as much as you can by just speaking up?

Just my $.02

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I'm interested to hear how the twice passed over guys fared. Out of 3 guys I know, 2 were offered TERA, and 1 was continued. The one continued has prior RPA experience. Hmmmm.

I know of 1 x continued 11B, 2 x non-continued/TERA 11Bs & 1 x non-continued/TERA 12B.

Continuation this year = stay in or decline & get out with nothing but a kick in the ass.

non-continuation = TERA if eligible (lottery!) or sep. pay if not TERA eligible.

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I know of 1 x continued 11B, 2 x non-continued/TERA 11Bs & 1 x non-continued/TERA 12B.

Continuation this year = stay in or decline & get out with nothing but a kick in the ass.

non-continuation = TERA if eligible (lottery!) or sep. pay if not TERA eligible.

How is someone not TERA eligible at their APZ?

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I know a dude 11M 2ABZ prior enlisted, took pilot bonus putting him at 18 years = no TERA

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I know a dude 11M 2ABZ prior enlisted, took pilot bonus putting him at 18 years = no TERA

You get continued/not continued after you are passed over twice, ie 1ABZ (not 2ABZ)...so say this guy was prior-E with 3 years TAS, got commissioned, and was passed over twice for O-5, he would be roughly at the 18 year mark, putting him in sanctuary for the standard 20 year retirement. So unless he was only enlisted for 2 years or so, or he is within a couple months of the 18 year mark after being passed over twice, your post isn't making sense. Perhaps I misunderstood or am missing something in the regs?

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Sanctuary doesn't exist for ad. Search it out

Edited by HossHarris
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Sanctuary doesn't exist for ad. Search it out

Just stop.

10 U.S. Code § 632 - Effect of failure of selection for promotion: captains and majors of the Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps and lieutenants and lieutenant commanders of the Navy

(a) Except an officer of the Navy and Marine Corps who is an officer designated for limited duty (to whom section 5596 (e) or6383 of this title applies) and except as provided under section 637 (a) of this title, each officer of the Army, Air Force, or Marine Corps on the active-duty list who holds the grade of captain or major, and each officer of the Navy on the active-duty list who holds the grade of lieutenant or lieutenant commander, who has failed of selection for promotion to the next higher grade for the second time and whose name is not on a list of officers recommended for promotion to the next higher grade shall—

(1) except as provided in paragraph (3) and in subsection ©, be discharged on the date requested by him and approved by the Secretary concerned, which date shall be not later than the first day of the seventh calendar month beginning after the month in which the President approves the report of the board which considered him for the second time;

(2) if he is eligible for retirement under any provision of law, be retired under that law on the date requested by him and approved by the Secretary concerned, which date shall be not later than the first day of the seventh calendar month beginning after the month in which the President approves the report of the board which considered him for the second time; or

(3) if on the date on which he is to be discharged under paragraph (1) he is within two years of qualifying for retirement under section 3911, 6323, or 8911 of this title, be retained on active duty until he is qualified for retirement and then retired under that section, unless he is sooner retired or discharged under another provision of law.

The officer promotions AFI also references sanctuary multiple times for AD officers.

3.10. Effects of Nonselection for Promotion. Generally, officers not selected for promotion to captain through lieutenant colonel for the second time are separated in accordance with AFI 36- 3207, Separating Commissioned Officers, unless they: 3.10.1. Are retirement eligible or within 2 years of qualifying for retirement (i.e., in the sanctuary) as of the mandatory date of separation (DOS) established for officers twice nonselected for promotion by that board.

Edited by Fifty-six & Two

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