Techsan Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Were you IPZ? If so, damn, that sucks. Any negative indicators (if you don't mind sharing)--failed PT test in the past, LOR, etc? Quick math shows me that 58% of those IPZ got DP's...without doing the math for the previous years, I wonder how this compares to the recent past? The DP allocation was 40% last year for IPZ, and this year was 60%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Anyone know when the PRF accounting date was for this year's LAF O-5 eligibles? No .mil access right now. Also know of one WIC (DG) passed over as well. IDE-complete (in any form)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcola Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Anyone know when the PRF accounting date was for this year's LAF O-5 eligibles? No .mil access right now. IDE-complete (in any form)? October, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 October, I think. Concur. The last 3-4 years it has always been the first couple of weeks in October. So for you non-top 25% Captains/Majors out there who want a decent shot at making O-5, become familiar with what the PRF accounting date is and work with your leadership (and AFPC) to plan accordingly. PCS'ing to your new job less than a few months before the IPZ PRF accounting date is (in most cases) not recommended...so try not to get lost (and screwed) in the shuffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 ^Nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hungus Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 So for you non-top 25% Captains/Majors out there who want a decent shot at making O-5, become familiar with what the PRF accounting date is and work with your leadership (and AFPC) to plan accordingly. Lots of those types have planned accordingly and will continue to do so by going to the ARC to make O-5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Vezencuando Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Were you IPZ? If so, damn, that sucks. Any negative indicators (if you don't mind sharing)--failed PT test in the past, LOR, etc? Quick math shows me that 58% of those IPZ got DP's...without doing the math for the previous years, I wonder how this compares to the recent past? Yeah, this was IPZ. My record was clean - PT tests in the high 90's too. First thing that comes to mind is a 6- and 12-month deployment bookended by mild or weak Senior Rater push lines. Beyond that, it's an admin fail or ..just.. anyone's guess. There was another comment about positioning non-selects for the APZ board. I'm laughing, because -in this case- I've been TDY en-route to PCS for the last three months. If I had a chance to be in anyone's top XX%, that ship has sailed. Offer still stands - selects and pass-overs get a round on me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techsan Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I'm interested to hear how the twice passed over guys fared. Out of 3 guys I know, 2 were offered TERA, and 1 was continued. The one continued has prior RPA experience. Hmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Concur. The last 3-4 years it has always been the first couple of weeks in October. So for you non-top 25% Captains/Majors out there who want a decent shot at making O-5, become familiar with what the PRF accounting date is and work with your leadership (and AFPC) to plan accordingly. PCS'ing to your new job less than a few months before the IPZ PRF accounting date is (in most cases) not recommended...so try not to get lost (and screwed) in the shuffle. Assuming you have any control over when you PCS. I PCS'd right before the majors board...no DP. I knew I wasn't a shiny penny, but I didn't think I was in the bottom 25% of my year group. Well, at least I got promoted...so that's something. Plenty of room for the crusty old majors, twice passed over, teaching the new guys how to fly the jet at the FTU, I guess. Or, if even half the folks who got DPs and school slots who talk about getting out actually do it, the pool will be much shallower for my O-5 board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Anyone know when the PRF accounting date was for this year's LAF O-5 eligibles? No .mil access right now. IDE-complete (in any form)? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Assuming you have any control over when you PCS. I PCS'd right before the majors board...no DP. I knew I wasn't a shiny penny, but I didn't think I was in the bottom 25% of my year group. Well, at least I got promoted...so that's something. Plenty of room for the crusty old majors, twice passed over, teaching the new guys how to fly the jet at the FTU, I guess. Or, if even half the folks who got DPs and school slots who talk about getting out actually do it, the pool will be much shallower for my O-5 board. For Major (with high promotion rates), the PRF accounting date isn't 'as important' (why I focused on O-5 board). As a Major, if you're not in the top 25% then you weren't a school select in your O-4 board (and these days getting picked up for IDE without being a select is very difficult) means that there's not always much of a difference necessarily between a guy in the top 1/3 or a guy in the middle, and that can mean the difference in getting a DP/strong push or not. Most likely the guy signing your PRF, and more importantly the O-5's and O-6's in your chain, are most likely to push harder for a person they know and have seen work hard for the last 2-3 years vs a guy who just PCS'd a few months before they rack and stack the guys meeting their IPZ board. As for AFPC screwing people over on PCS'ing people right before their PRF accounting date, my personal experience (and anecdotal evidence from my buds) is that they try and not do this, especially when you or your CC reminds them of the fact and that delaying the PCS for a few months could mean the difference in your career. YMMV, but if you don't understand the process and aren't at least trying to fight for yourself then you only have yourself to blame for not taking ownership of the process as best you could. Now for those who don't want to make/don't care about making O-5 then sure, do what you want. Unfortunately, these days some really good people are being shown the door early for not getting promoted, which totally sucks, but is the reality. So why not at least try and help yourself as much as you can by just speaking up? Just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonedRiver Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I'm interested to hear how the twice passed over guys fared. Out of 3 guys I know, 2 were offered TERA, and 1 was continued. The one continued has prior RPA experience. Hmmmm. I know of 1 x continued 11B, 2 x non-continued/TERA 11Bs & 1 x non-continued/TERA 12B. Continuation this year = stay in or decline & get out with nothing but a kick in the ass. non-continuation = TERA if eligible (lottery!) or sep. pay if not TERA eligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I know of 1 x continued 11B, 2 x non-continued/TERA 11Bs & 1 x non-continued/TERA 12B. Continuation this year = stay in or decline & get out with nothing but a kick in the ass. non-continuation = TERA if eligible (lottery!) or sep. pay if not TERA eligible. How is someone not TERA eligible at their APZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I know a dude 11M 2ABZ prior enlisted, took pilot bonus putting him at 18 years = no TERA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I know a dude 11M 2ABZ prior enlisted, took pilot bonus putting him at 18 years = no TERA You get continued/not continued after you are passed over twice, ie 1ABZ (not 2ABZ)...so say this guy was prior-E with 3 years TAS, got commissioned, and was passed over twice for O-5, he would be roughly at the 18 year mark, putting him in sanctuary for the standard 20 year retirement. So unless he was only enlisted for 2 years or so, or he is within a couple months of the 18 year mark after being passed over twice, your post isn't making sense. Perhaps I misunderstood or am missing something in the regs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HossHarris Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Sanctuary doesn't exist for ad. Search it out Edited June 13, 2015 by HossHarris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty-six & Two Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Sanctuary doesn't exist for ad. Search it out Just stop. 10 U.S. Code § 632 - Effect of failure of selection for promotion: captains and majors of the Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps and lieutenants and lieutenant commanders of the Navy (a) Except an officer of the Navy and Marine Corps who is an officer designated for limited duty (to whom section 5596 (e) or6383 of this title applies) and except as provided under section 637 (a) of this title, each officer of the Army, Air Force, or Marine Corps on the active-duty list who holds the grade of captain or major, and each officer of the Navy on the active-duty list who holds the grade of lieutenant or lieutenant commander, who has failed of selection for promotion to the next higher grade for the second time and whose name is not on a list of officers recommended for promotion to the next higher grade shall— (1) except as provided in paragraph (3) and in subsection ©, be discharged on the date requested by him and approved by the Secretary concerned, which date shall be not later than the first day of the seventh calendar month beginning after the month in which the President approves the report of the board which considered him for the second time; (2) if he is eligible for retirement under any provision of law, be retired under that law on the date requested by him and approved by the Secretary concerned, which date shall be not later than the first day of the seventh calendar month beginning after the month in which the President approves the report of the board which considered him for the second time; or (3) if on the date on which he is to be discharged under paragraph (1) he is within two years of qualifying for retirement under section 3911, 6323, or 8911 of this title, be retained on active duty until he is qualified for retirement and then retired under that section, unless he is sooner retired or discharged under another provision of law. The officer promotions AFI also references sanctuary multiple times for AD officers. 3.10. Effects of Nonselection for Promotion. Generally, officers not selected for promotion to captain through lieutenant colonel for the second time are separated in accordance with AFI 36- 3207, Separating Commissioned Officers, unless they: 3.10.1. Are retirement eligible or within 2 years of qualifying for retirement (i.e., in the sanctuary) as of the mandatory date of separation (DOS) established for officers twice nonselected for promotion by that board. Edited June 13, 2015 by Fifty-six & Two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Not sure how long enlisted. He is at 18 years and passed over twice. Wants to get TERA but continued to 20. That's all I know based on what he told me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 In light of my recent post, here is what I found on sanctuary for AD, not quite like the ARC but pretty darn similar. USC 10 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pagedetails.action?collectionCode=USCODE&searchPath=Title+10%2FSubtitle+A%2FPART+II&granuleId=USCODE-2011-title10-subtitleE-partII-chap1221-sec12686&packageId=USCODE-2011-title10&oldPath=Title+10%2FSubtitle+A&fromPageDetails=true&collapse=true&ycord=658 AFI 36-2501 http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2501/afi36-2501.pdf The AFI is pretty explicit with this quote on its definition of retirement sanctuary: Retirement Sanctuary—The 2-year period immediately prior to eligibility for retirement as a commissioned officer under any provision of law. Here is what it says about selective continuation: 7.9.1.1. Can retire, or is in the retirement sanctuary, as a commissioned officer by the mandatory date of separation for the associated promotion board. EXCEPTION: Officers possessing a critical skill may be offered continuation beyond their mandatory retirement date. Individuals not selected, or those who decline the continuation offer, will revert to their previous sanctuary or retirement status. Secondly continuation should take you to 20 TAFMS according to this paragraph: 7.15. Continuation to Retirement Eligibility. For retirement purposes, continuation is to 20 years TAFMS. Lastly, if you were selective continued, but the contract did not take you to 20 TAFMS, the AFI says this: 7.17. Terms For Involuntary Separation of Selectively Continued Officers. Consider officers for further continuation when continuation ends before an officer enters the retirement sanctuary or becomes eligible to retire. If an officer is not selected for further continuation, they will have at least 6 months notice before involuntary separation or discharge. Involuntarily separate officers who decline further continuation on the expiration of their current contract. So, selective continuation should normally take you to 20 yrs TAFMS, if it doesn't, but gets you inside of 18 then you are good to retirement. That is all null and void if you rape someone, pop a DUI, or some other law breaking. The BL is they can't show you the door inside 2 years of retirement eligibility if you remain in good standing. I highly recommend reading the whole AFI to keep your self smart in light of all of the current CC and personnel buffoonery that seems to be afoot these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Not sure how long enlisted. He is at 18 years and passed over twice. Wants to get TERA but continued to 20. That's all I know based on what he told me. Right. No TERA because he was offered continuation. So this isn't a matter of sanctuary or not...he was offered continuation to take him to 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olevelo Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 How is someone not TERA eligible at their APZ? I heard of a guy last year who did some sort of delayed entry program. So he met the promotion board with his year group he graduated with, but his delayed entry meant his tafms clock didn't start clicking till almost a year later. So he didn't quite have 15 years at the deadline (I believe the 7th month after the board). Again, I heard it from someone who heard it, but it seems like the only way it could happen. Or, I also read that the Chief of Staff can set an earlier date for folks to separate, which would presumably also affect who meets the 15 year requirement (those who entered late in the year), but that would be royally screwed up if they ever did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budderbar Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) How is a #3 of 6 stratification from first line rater/O-5 CC interpreted by promotion boards? Is my rater trying to send a negative message with a strat like this? I immediately took it as a negative as I interpret it to be "this guy is average at best". My senior rater/O-6 CC stratified me #3 of 10. Not sure what to make of it. Edited June 25, 2015 by budderbar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panchbarnes Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) How is a #3 of 6 stratification from first line rater/O-5 CC interpreted by promotion boards? Is my rater trying to send a negative message with a strat like this? I immediately took it as a negative as I interpret it to be "this guy is average at best". My senior rater/O-6 CC stratified me #3 of 10. Not sure what to make of it. #3 of 6 is still a strat. It depends on context too... of 6 CGOs/LTs/Capts/Snackos? You can leave it out of the PRF if you have stronger strats. You also have to look at the whole push line. Did you get a good PME and assignment push? Do you need to be challenged for future assignments? Are you a good or outstanding officer? Edited June 25, 2015 by PanchBarnes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11F Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 How is a #3 of 6 stratification from first line rater/O-5 CC interpreted by promotion boards? Is my rater trying to send a negative message with a strat like this? I immediately took it as a negative as I interpret it to be "this guy is average at best". My senior rater/O-6 CC stratified me #3 of 10. Not sure what to make of it. You know what's wrong with this is the fact that budderbar has to wonder what his commander is trying to say. I won't speak for communities I don't know, but at least within the fighter community, we are so good at providing unfiltered feedback in the tactical debrief, but so absolutely abhorrent at providing feedback on OPRs, job performance, bar-act, officership, etc. Budderbar should have had his commander sit him down and say, "Hey, just so you're not confused, here is what I'm trying to say on this OPR, and here is why, and here is how I am hoping a promotion board will interpret this. If you wouldn't have done this and would start doing this, here's how it should look next year." Feedback like this doesn't happen from a big AF program telling us to, it starts at a grassroots level like this. Cheers, Budderbar. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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