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Changing/Switching airframes

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3 hours ago, Duck said:


As a PIT IP, I have been surprised by how terrible a large number of AF pilots are regardless of airframe.

T-6?  We had a handful of T-38 IPs that were terrible, most of them didn’t know it.  The studs were about the same.  In the F-16 the number was WAY smaller, but there was still an odd, um, “duck” in every squadron.  I don’t think there was a large number of poor pilots as I recall.

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Duck, you're feeding the troll, bro.

This type of discussion (heavy vs. fighter) is just like the mil vs. civ discussion that pops up over on APC once every 2 or 3 days.  No one ever wins this argument.

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2 hours ago, FUSEPLUG said:

Duck, you're feeding the troll, bro.

This type of discussion (heavy vs. fighter) is just like the mil vs. civ discussion that pops up over on APC once every 2 or 3 days.  No one ever wins this argument.

Yeah, Mr Plug has a point.  Plus we all know the mil guys are better.  😁

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Duck, you're feeding the troll, bro.
This type of discussion (heavy vs. fighter) is just like the mil vs. civ discussion that pops up over on APC once every 2 or 3 days.  No one ever wins this argument.

I’m sorry, I can’t help it.

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Is anyone really arguing that flying heavies is hard (I’m a heavy guy. It’s not hard)?

Just quit being a dick to your tanker that’s all. Sometimes they have to turn through the sun. 

And sometimes your tanker just sucks. 

And sometimes the fighter guy breaks the boom nozzle off in his hole. 

Carry on. 😎

Edited by Homestar
That’s what she said
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the longer i've done this the more i've appreciated the roll that everyone plays.

heavies hard sts? no. at least not most of their flying, but they're needed and important. and that's not some "everyone gets a trophy" bs that's the honest truth.

no one operates in combat in a bubble. shit even F22 dudes are getting threat calls from the lowly heavy AWACS.

night 0 shit? yeah that might be a little different...for a few nights...but even that's gonna be a whole lotta teamwork

anyway not sure what the point of this post is gotta go back to the "emirates" thread for the juicy gossip c ya!

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the longer i've done this the more i've appreciated the roll that everyone plays.
heavies hard sts? no. at least not most of their flying, but they're needed and important. and that's not some "everyone gets a trophy" bs that's the honest truth.
no one operates in combat in a bubble. shit even F22 dudes are getting threat calls from the lowly heavy AWACS.
night 0 shit? yeah that might be a little different...for a few nights...but even that's gonna be a whole lotta teamwork
anyway not sure what the point of this post is gotta go back to the "emirates" thread for the juicy gossip c ya!


But what about the role that they play?

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11 hours ago, BobisBell said:

I'm not trying to stir shit up, just trying to see what is true and what isn't. Kept on reading and hearing people say heavies is just as hard as fighters, which is not true. ON THE OTHER HAND a heavy pilot can switch to a fighter and do just as well. It's generally more of the airframe requiring less skill and not the pilot, but I could be wrong.

quoted for truth (emphasis added)

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Is there ever a time where you can get the 3 year ADSC waived for switching airplanes?? Say, going from a C-5 to a T-6?

 

I looked at the reg. It’s clear as mud

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5 hours ago, Homestar said:

Is anyone really arguing that flying heavies is hard (I’m a heavy guy. It’s not hard)?

Just quit being a dick to your tanker that’s all. Sometimes they have to turn through the sun. 

And sometimes your tanker just sucks. 

And sometimes the fighter guy breaks the boom nozzle off in his hole. 

Carry on. 😎

Not all heavies are equal, sometimes big AMC forgets about us herk guys and I would venture to say that being  a herk dude down in the tactical mission set while when we aren’t getting boned by TACC has it’s useful challenges, certainly not easy by any means.  

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12 hours ago, pilotguy said:

Is there ever a time where you can get the 3 year ADSC waived for switching airplanes?? Say, going from a C-5 to a T-6?

 

I looked at the reg. It’s clear as mud

Yes. The reg contradicts itself. Standard. But guys have gotten it waived down to 2 year PCS commitment 

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7 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Yes. The reg contradicts itself. Standard. But guys have gotten it waived down to 2 year PCS commitment 

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2107/afi36-2107.pdf

Quote

16 Advanced Flying Training (AFT): courses in the following categories: - Initial qualification (any fixed, rotary wing aircraft, or unmanned aerial system) - Requalification (any fixed, rotary wing aircraft, or unmanned aerial system) - AETC Pilot Instructor Training (PIT) (NOTE: Pilots who cross-train without a break in flying between AETC non-Major Weapons System aircraft, after completing initial training do not incur any additional commitment.)

3 years (see notes 1, 2, 10, 14, 15, and 20)

NOTES: 1. The following provisions apply:

b. All manned or unmanned pilots, navigators, and air battle managers who began aviation service after 30 September 1997 will not incur any additional Advanced Flying Training (AFT)/Instructor Qualification ADSCs which extend beyond 6 or 10 years as applicable, of continuous or cumulative rated service. Rated service begins at the completion of training and awarding of wings for the rated specialty. They will still incur Permanent Change of Station (PCS), Professional Military Education (PME), and other non-AFT related ADSCs.

So I've heard that as long as you are under your UPT ADSC then it is only a 2 year PCS commitment.  What do you mean that it needs to be waived?  Anyone have first hand experience?  

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Negative. You do not have to be under 10 year adsc. I’m personally working my own case this month and will report results back, and only know tO do this cause my buddy got his waived. 

I guess not waived but extra year removed

Edited by BashiChuni

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This was discussed over in the adsc thread, but short answer: you gotta watch out for note 1c, because it says that an initial qual in a new airframe (like the one you would get when cross flowing to your new MDS) will cost you the full 3 year adsc, even if it goes past your initial UPT ten year commitment. 

Yes, note 1b and 1c directly contradict themselves, but when I brought that up to afpc, they stuck with 1c and I picked up an extra year when I got my T-38 initial qual. But it sounds like others have gotten it waived or reduced, so ymmv.  Hope for the best (no extra adsc) but prepare yourself for the worst (full 3 year adsc for a form 8 that says "INIT QUAL" on it). 

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On 5/8/2018 at 11:51 PM, Duck said:


And I completely understand you calling it as you see it with your massive military aviation experience.

As a PIT IP, I have been surprised by how terrible a large number of AF pilots are regardless of airframe.

What airframe do you teach on? If it's the T-6, I doubt you're seeing many fighter guys come through other than the occasional senior officer who has 50 hours in the last 5 years. 

Edited by Seriously
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What airframe do you teach on? If it's the T-6, I doubt you're seeing many fighter guys come through other than the occasional senior officer who has 50 hours in the last 5 years. 

T-6s and although you are right about Active Duty, there have been tons of reservists who have just left fighters. For what it’s worth I left PIT over a year ago.

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T-6s and although you are right about Active Duty, there have been tons of reservists who have just left fighters. For what it’s worth I left PIT over a year ago.


Not much has changed since you left.
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So I'm a T-1 UPT dude that dropped RPAs and I've been doing that for over 6 years now. I've really enjoyed the mission and I re-categorized a few years ago. With that being said, due to a number of recent reasons I've decided to try and pursue any active duty deployment or 3-4 year tour flying any manned airframe that will take me (rather than staff, working for a general, and standard box checking). I've got a really strong performance record, a lot of IP/FE experience in RPAs, FTU experience, and I've remotely destroyed a lot of stuff of doing CAS/DT (so far, these haven't counted for much).

Right now, I'm working every angle I have to try and score a gig teaching T-1s or T-6s (requires a waiver due to not having 100 AC hours, but its been done). I'm also trying to sell my base leadership and ACC on taking a gamble and letting me be a co-pilot in the E-11. If both of these options fail, I see IFS or teaching fixed wing planes at the Academy as the last options I know about. Spec Ops Fighter Pilot and Spec Ops Fighter Pilot flying the A-29 were both ruled out today. I'm looking for other ideas/options I haven't considered on the active duty side. And thanks to the bros who have already passed gouge my way. :rock:

Edited by GoodSplash9
Poor word choice...reference below comment.

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I've remotely blown a lot of stuff


Sorry, couldn’t help it.

As another RPA returnee to manned, I wish you the best of luck. You are in a different situation since you were UPT direct and don’t have a MWS to return to. I do remember seeing white jets as an option for 11Us on the AFPC assignment slides, and if they are hurting like they say that’s probably your best bet.

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Just to make sure I’m tracking the nomenclature, you changed your AFSC from 11 to 18, right? Pitching in from the cheap seats, I would imagine your odds are pretty low of flying manned aircraft. If that’s the case, you’re now in that column on the spreadsheet and not the pilot one. 

Also (unsolicited advice), do you really think it makes sense to take you to a UPT base after six years of zero flying and put you in charge of students? I don’t think that makes much sense in terms of safety.

I appreciate you wanting to fly manned and I wish you the best, but temper your expectations. Best of luck!

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3 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Just to make sure I’m tracking the nomenclature, you changed your AFSC from 11 to 18, right? Pitching in from the cheap seats, I would imagine your odds are pretty low of flying manned aircraft. If that’s the case, you’re now in that column on the spreadsheet and not the pilot one. 

Also (unsolicited advice), do you really think it makes sense to take you to a UPT base after six years of zero flying and put you in charge of students? I don’t think that makes much sense in terms of safety.

I appreciate you wanting to fly manned and I wish you the best, but temper your expectations. Best of luck!

That's all fair...Right now, it seems like the Air Force needs every single pilot they have. I guess my honest question would be do the standards at PIT let unsafe IPs graduate and go teach at UPT? I know FAIPs are really current in their airframe, but they don't exactly have a wealth of judgement, decision making, or instructional skills when they show up to PIT in general. FYSA, there have been at least 2 dudes in my situation that went on to teach T-6s and did really well (they were around the 4-5 year mark).

With that being said, I appreciate your frank answer. I'm really motivated to do this, so I'm going to press until the doors are all shut. If that happens, flying Guard units will likely be the next endeavor.

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I think white jets are certainly possible, safe, and reasonable for you. There’s a RPA guy who just graduated UPT, IFF, and going f22s. 

Current PIT student dude who just left MQ-9s doing fine (he was prior MWS though and never 18x)

anythings possible especially when big blue is getting more desperate. I’d keep pressing to test. 

Hell they just sent a lot of casual 18x LTs direct to start UPT next month instead of RPA pipeline. 

Edited by BashiChuni
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On 5/11/2018 at 9:43 PM, GoodSplash9 said:

So I'm a T-1 UPT dude that dropped RPAs and I've been doing that for over 6 years now. I've really enjoyed the mission and I re-categorized a few years ago. With that being said, due to a number of recent reasons I've decided to try and pursue any active duty deployment or 3-4 year tour flying any manned airframe that will take me (rather than staff, working for a general, and standard box checking). I've got a really strong performance record, a lot of IP/FE experience in RPAs, FTU experience, and I've remotely destroyed a lot of stuff of doing CAS/DT (so far, these haven't counted for much).

Right now, I'm working every angle I have to try and score a gig teaching T-1s or T-6s (requires a waiver due to not having 100 AC hours, but its been done). I'm also trying to sell my base leadership and ACC on taking a gamble and letting me be a co-pilot in the E-11. If both of these options fail, I see IFS or teaching fixed wing planes at the Academy as the last options I know about. Spec Ops Fighter Pilot and Spec Ops Fighter Pilot flying the A-29 were both ruled out today. I'm looking for other ideas/options I haven't considered on the active duty side. And thanks to the bros who have already passed gouge my way. :rock:

We just had two bros get T-6 and T-1 waivers/instructor slots, they were A tour dudes who didn’t recat though, and only been out of manned for 3 ish years. I’m a UPT-D dude from the 2015 round, just got my drop sheet for my new assignment, expecting a return to manned at the end of the year. They denied waivers for 3 of the latest UPT D guys to recat. We are all getting forced back. 

Dont give up hope brother. 

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