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Why not just do a pulmonary function test and actually measure VO2 max then??

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Why not just do a pulmonary function test and actually measure VO2 max then??

Isn’t that what the bike test was supposed to do years ago?


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Isn’t that what the bike test was supposed to do years ago?


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Yes


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6 hours ago, rancormac said:

Why not just do a pulmonary function test and actually measure VO2 max then??

He said that they found it difficult to test en masse.  Which is one thing that makes sense.

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On 3/23/2019 at 3:10 AM, Klepto said:

You are all getting way, way off track. The purpose of the AF test, per it’s creator, is to measure Vo2 Max, which also according to him is the best indicator of health and future healthcare costs. That should answer most questions. Continue.

I think it comes back to though, is Mr. God Complex AFPT creator right when he argues that Vo2 Max is the best fitness indicator for prolonged physical health. I haven't seen a whole lot to back this other than studies that associate higher Vo2 with lower risk of pulmonary disorder or cardiac disease. 

Body composition though (purpose of the waste measurement) is huge. And the most recent science has painted the picture that the secret to body composition is actually weight training, not heavy cardio. I don't completely discount cardio, I'm saying the AF emphasis on it is misplaced. Who "looks" healthier, a marathoner or a sprinter?

marathon_sprinter1.jpg

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I really hate the age categories. The current Army test changes the age standards every four years, ie 18-21, 22-25, etc. It also counts push ups, sit-ups and the run equally. 

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7 minutes ago, 08Dawg said:

I really hate the age categories. The current Army test changes the age standards every four years, ie 18-21, 22-25, etc. It also counts push ups, sit-ups and the run equally. 

Measuring different stuff. AF is measuring Vo2 max and BMI.

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36 minutes ago, Klepto said:

Measuring different stuff. AF is measuring Vo2 max and BMI.

Not sure this invalidates his argument. Are you really measuring VO2 max with anaerobic events (like max piss-poor reps in a minute)? And he’s right: the age bands are ridiculous. A 39 year-old is leaps and bounds different than a 30 year-old. Can’t even imagine what the poor 49 year-old bastards go through. 

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I really hate the age categories. The current Army test changes the age standards every four years, ie 18-21, 22-25, etc. It also counts push ups, sit-ups and the run equally. 

Agree, as someone approaching the next higher age bracket, I can attest to how much aging occurs from 30-39.


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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, war007afa said:

Not sure this invalidates his argument. Are you really measuring VO2 max with anaerobic events (like max piss-poor reps in a minute)? And he’s right: the age bands are ridiculous. A 39 year-old is leaps and bounds different than a 30 year-old. Can’t even imagine what the poor 49 year-old bastards go through. 

I don’t know. I’m not the expert. Ask the AF PT guy. Just saying that’s what he says the reason for the run and waist measurement is. And apparently the age bands are because of science.

As for the pushups and sit-ups he said he never wanted them but the institution made him do it.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled complaining. I think it’s a dumb test too, and I actually tried to understand his reasoning instead of complaining into the abyss without any prior research, so there’s that. Dumb! 😂

Edited by Klepto
Added another “dumb” for effect.

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Agree, as someone approaching the next higher age bracket, I can attest to how much aging occurs from 30-39.


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Wait until your 40s. I’m much closer to 49 than I am 40. It doesn’t get any easier.



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Herkbum perfectly got that right. I retired about 18 months ago when I was 48 one month prior to my required test date (proper planning) - Phew! Getting older was tough for me as you had to put up with 10 years stretches of the same run requirements, etc. (weaker as I grew older due to extreme Army/AF training during my early years - my fault for overdoing it).

Overall assessment: Introduction of the PC era, ever changing PT criteria, Don’t ask, don’t tell/gender complexities, and the introduction of Face Book to Govt computers are more avenues for them to cancel your employment.

My conspiracy theory = Amazing weed out programs! And of course the latest use of “lack of confidence” when folks just can’t Command or dare I say can’t get along... Commanders being removed/fired quite a bit these past few years.(Besides the ones who deserve it/or do we suck more?) Easy answer: Don’t Suck! Glad I didn’t have to do my that next PT Test, I would have sucked - perfect timing.

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Posted (edited)

Got the unofficial word today that fitness tests are going back to the way they used to be....in very short order.

More oversight and only a handful of people on base that can input scores.  Apparently the Air Force saw some cheating on a scale large enough to make us go back to the shitty days.  

This info came up in a wing standup and from emails from the MPF.

Edited by epsilon

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25 minutes ago, epsilon said:

Got the unofficial word today that fitness tests are going back to the way they used to be....in very short order.

More oversight and only a handful of people on base that can input scores.  Apparently the Air Force saw some cheating on a scale large enough to make us go back to the shitty days.  

This info came up in a wing standup and from emails from the MPF.

Oh awesome.  Not a year after the push to have squadron PTLs administer tests.  We trust evaluators in the squadron to administer checkrides to aviators in a job that can kill people if not done right, but we don’t trust them to administer PT tests.  This is what happens when you let nonners (AFSC neutral term to me) run the Air Force.  

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8 hours ago, epsilon said:

Got the unofficial word today that fitness tests are going back to the way they used to be....in very short order.

More oversight and only a handful of people on base that can input scores.  Apparently the Air Force saw some cheating on a scale large enough to make us go back to the shitty days.  

This info came up in a wing standup and from emails from the MPF.

So we're going to let people fail a PT test with no consequence if pass within 45 days... But we can't let folks test with their own squadrons?

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13 hours ago, epsilon said:

Got the unofficial word today that fitness tests are going back to the way they used to be....in very short order.

More oversight and only a handful of people on base that can input scores.  Apparently the Air Force saw some cheating on a scale large enough to make us go back to the shitty days.  

This info came up in a wing standup and from emails from the MPF.

State source.

Is this an installation thing? Literally just had a discussion with the AF-level policy author on this exact subject; no such policy change was mentioned. And they’d have to convince CSAF to crawfish on his guidance. Unlikely. 

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17 hours ago, epsilon said:

Got the unofficial word today that fitness tests are going back to the way they used to be....in very short order.

More oversight and only a handful of people on base that can input scores.  Apparently the Air Force saw some cheating on a scale large enough to make us go back to the shitty days.  

This info came up in a wing standup and from emails from the MPF.

This is my surprised face. 

Then again, it doesn’t change anything at my base, because when the policy changed to allow the squadrons to take care of PT testing, Wing leadership decided to “uphold standards” by continuing to use a Fitness Assessment Cell (ie the squadrons were not allowed to administer the test, there was literally zero change from the previous procedures).  Which is a roundabout way of the wing cc telling the Sq commanders “I don’t trust you or your people.”

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On 8/9/2019 at 7:23 AM, HU&W said:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/08/07/the-no-harm-no-foul-pt-test-air-force-considering-practice-examinations-to-lessen-stress/

AF is considering letting you choose if the score counts. If you failed, and you’re not overdue, it’s ‘practice.’

Backdoor RIF has served its purpose... sometime in the very near future, "hey, I hear a bike test is a great way to determine if you're fit and it won't kill a few folks each year and you keep taking the test until you pass."

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On 8/9/2019 at 7:23 AM, HU&W said:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/08/07/the-no-harm-no-foul-pt-test-air-force-considering-practice-examinations-to-lessen-stress/

AF is considering letting you choose if the score counts. If you failed, and you’re not overdue, it’s ‘practice.’

That ‘stress’ is about that keeps me passing the thing.

there isn’t a huge difference between running 12 minutes and 14.    One is a decent enough score to pass, the other is obviously a fail.

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 We trust evaluators in the squadron to administer checkrides to aviators in a job that can kill people if not done right, but we don’t trust them to administer PT tests.


I went a solid 8 years without a valid PT test. We pencil-whipped at the sq level, I remember having a beer at the sq bar, being asked by the PTL what he thought I could run 1.5 in. Same guy was a hardass IP because one evaluation mattered, the other we all knew was BS.

So m I wouldn’t doubt Pilots are doing that still if able. And it’s fine by me because the PT test is dumb. The fatties all get exempt anyhow.


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Push-ups, pull-ups, 1.5 run, waist.  

And they really believe this test accurately tells them anything about what physical condition someone is in?  As a business practice, is the investment in dollars and resources worth the data we get from the "fitness program"?  

A month before I turned 50, I did my mandatory PT test with one of my best friends, who was 47.  Of the other 7 in your PT group, one was early 30's, and the other 6 were early 20's.  

Me and my artificial hip came across the finish line at 10:16 with Brad about 20" behind me.  We stood there and heckled the other 7 with shouts of "old guys rule!"  Most of them were sucking wind.  I lapped one of them twice.  

While this is only one indicator, it was obvious that these kids in their early 20's were lethargic.  But was anything productive done with this data now that they were identified?  Or was the time away from work, and the money spent on the salary for the full-time civilian monitor with the expensive AED heart-attack-restart box worth it?  

I appears to be such a monumental circle-jerk that we simply couldn't improve during my 28 years in.  

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