old crow Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Failure to do so should result in your commander RiverDancing on your nut sack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourFans Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 You animated LockheedFix!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slacker Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 By the way, this isn't King George's army... If you don't like the blues policy, do like me and do your best to voice your oppinion and defy it the best you can. If everyone plays "good" and just agrees with idiodic policies, then they will never change. Someone has to look them in the ey and tell them "hell no!". I must have missed the Air Force Complaint Box or the town hall meetings. If I were you, I would send a digitally signed email right to the CSAF relaying your disgust with his policy. Is this still the military? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I must have missed the Air Force Complaint Box or the town hall meetings. If I were you, I would send a digitally signed email right to the CSAF relaying your disgust with his policy. Is this still the military? Let me stir the pot a bit if I may- It's OK to not follow guidance while deployed to the Deid by wearing white socks, not tucking in your PT shirt, not wearing a disco belt, etc (as a 50+ page thread complaining about people enforcing these items suggests) but by God you better be wearing blues on Monday. We don't get to pick and choose what lawful orders we follow. FYI I never said it wasn't a lawful order; just pointed out to nsplayer that it wasn't in an AFI- just a policy. Me personally- I do what I'm told. I wear what I'm told to wear. I bitch and moan internally or amongst my peers. But in the end I abide by the rules because, like most of you, I don't want to listen to a bunch of shoeclerks harrassing me about not following directives. This wasn't directed at you, Slacker. You just happened to be the last post in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) To use an old axiom, it's not the rank boys, it's the man! If you let some enlisted puke challenge your rank, they will do so and you deserve the embarrassment. Instead, get it in your fucking head right now that you are an officer in the USAF, and the days of the AFROTC or OTS bullshit are over! Man up and grow a pair! Maybe it's because I was prior, but I would not take any bullshit like that when I was a butter bar. Neither should anyone else. Don't be afraid to use your rank and/or authority, it is why you were given a commission. Cheers! M2 That only works when your superiors don't hammer your nuts for pulling rank on an NCO, which happens with some regularity. Edited to add an example: http://www.afblues.com/?p=668 By the way, this isn't King George's army... If you don't like the blues policy, do like me and do your best to voice your oppinion and defy it the best you can. If everyone plays "good" and just agrees with idiodic policies, then they will never change. Someone has to look them in the ey and tell them "hell no!". Voice opposition, yes. Defy, no. Edited March 17, 2009 by pawnman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigDug Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) By the way, this isn't King George's army... If you don't like the blues policy, do like me and do your best to voice your oppinion and defy it the best you can. If everyone plays "good" and just agrees with idiodic policies, then they will never change. Someone has to look them in the ey and tell them "hell no!". When commanders feel like they're losing control, that's when they tighten the reigns - making life miserable for everyone. Follow the simple orders (wearing blues on Monday is really a simple order) and don't whine (aka - voice your opposition) about it in public (I'd argue that whining here is probably appropriate). If the old man sees people defying his order to wear blues on Mondays, you can bet that the new order will be to wear blues every day you're not flying - or even worse, even on days when you're flying (change into a flight suit for the flight and back out again when you're done). I don't like blues either - but it's a simple fricking order man!! What I'm trying to say is QUIT YOUR WHINY B!TCH!ING AND PUT YOUR EFFING BLUES ON EVERY MONDAY MORNING!!!! I believe "back to basics" was the purpose of this Monday blues exercise - back to the basics of doing what the F*** you're told! Stop screwing it up for the rest of us with your pathetic defiance!!! /soapbox Edited March 18, 2009 by DigDug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 DigDug, great point about the boss feeling like he's losing control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brabus Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 If I were you, I would send a digitally signed email right to the CSAF relaying your disgust with his policy. Then he'll be able to read it in 6-9 yrs when outlook actually displays the digitally signed email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fourtenwedge Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Monday, 16 March 2007--I was scheduled for water survival. Scheduling had put it down as an all day affair so even though its still March I thought maybe they are sending us out to the lake to do some swimming. Well, the SERE instructor informed us after the .ppt that the water was still too cold and that we'd have to return in 6 months for the field portion. Not a big deal. I walk back into work with my flight suit on and the first person I see is the 1st Shirt who asked me if I am flying to which I replied I just got out of wst class. The reply I received was, paraphrased of course, does wst class mean you cant wear your blues? At this point I realize that everything that comes out of my mouth will only fall on deaf ears and that what I say will be the wrong answer. So I told him that it was scheduled as an all day event with scheduling and that I assumed that we'd be hitting the lake after the classroom portion. But he told me that the classroom portion did not constitute me wearing a flight suit and that if we were going to the lake I could change before we left. I gave the smart ass reply after that which is always agreeing with the person, example setting, followed by it wont happen again, "You are right sir, I should have worn my blues this morning. As a supervisor I should set an example for those under me. It won't happen again, I'll go to lunch early and change right away." I see people all the time not wearing blues on Mondays and haven't seen anyone get in trouble,of course, I'm sure they have good reason. I thought mine was too. I guess I was at the wrong place at the wrong time on the day when the Shirt must have had something going wrong. I personally don't mind wearing blues and since the Monday Blues have been implemented I've always worn them, because I've never had anything scheduled for Mondays. Does it suck? Yeah. Needless to say that afternoon the Shirt sent out a nice email to the squadron about how people are blatantly disregarding orders by not wearing blues on Mondays and that supervisors need to keep their Airmen in check. I don't know, kinda seemed like overkill to me, but whatever. I know now that when I return 6 months from now to wst I'll be wearing blues until I put on my poopie-suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) At this point I realize that everything that comes out of my mouth will only fall on deaf ears and that what I say will be the wrong answer. Well you got that part right... You've got to talk to these people as if they were your wife/girlfriend/significant other/whatever. Needless to say that afternoon the Shirt sent out a nice email to the squadron ... Isn't that what Shirts primarily do? I swear after a TDY I have to sit in front of Outlook for the better part of an hour deleting all of the pointless emails that the Shirt sent out (usually forwarded) regarding things that I'm pretty sure no one cares about. Edited March 18, 2009 by Champ Kind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old crow Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Isn't that what Shirts primarily do? I swear after a TDY I have to sit in front of Outlook for the better part of an hour deleting all of the pointless emails that the Shirt sent out (usually forwarded) regarding things that I'm pretty sure no one cares about. Shirt Email = Microsoft Office Auto Delete Rule. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoo Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I walk back into work with my flight suit on and the first person I see is the 1st Shirt who asked me if I am flying to which I replied I just got out of wst class. The reply I received was, paraphrased of course, does wst class mean you cant wear your blues? At this point I realize that everything that comes out of my mouth will only fall on deaf ears and that what I say will be the wrong answer. So I told him that it was scheduled as an all day event with scheduling and that I assumed that we'd be hitting the lake after the classroom portion. But he told me that the classroom portion did not constitute me wearing a flight suit and that if we were going to the lake I could change before we left. I gave the smart ass reply after that which is always agreeing with the person, example setting, followed by it wont happen again, "You are right sir, I should have worn my blues this morning. As a supervisor I should set an example for those under me. It won't happen again, I'll go to lunch early and change right away." I see people all the time not wearing blues on Mondays and haven't seen anyone get in trouble,of course, I'm sure they have good reason. I thought mine was too. I guess I was at the wrong place at the wrong time on the day when the Shirt must have had something going wrong. I personally don't mind wearing blues and since the Monday Blues have been implemented I've always worn them, because I've never had anything scheduled for Mondays. Does it suck? Yeah. Needless to say that afternoon the Shirt sent out a nice email to the squadron about how people are blatantly disregarding orders by not wearing blues on Mondays and that supervisors need to keep their Airmen in check. I don't know, kinda seemed like overkill to me, but whatever. I know now that when I return 6 months from now to wst I'll be wearing blues until I put on my poopie-suit. As I've had a couple martinis, I'm going to wait until tomorrow to respond to this. Grrrrrrr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discus Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 As I've had a couple martinis, I'm going to wait until tomorrow to respond to this. Grrrrrrr... Oh no, by all means, please respond NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flyguy Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) You need to put him/her in their place if they are below you in rank...nicely but with a don't FK with me tone...(I would not question someone higher in rank than me unless it could save their a$$ or mine)........just say, why does it concern you, I know the regulations and I know how to follow them, anything else? Then just walk away..do not answer the question...unless they out rank you.....have a backbone. Edited March 19, 2009 by flyguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 You need to put him/her in their place if they are below you in rank...nicely but with a don't FK with me tone...(I would not question someone higher in rank than me unless it could save their a$$ or mine)........just say, why does it concern you, I know the regulations and I know how to follow them, anything else? Then just walk away..do not answer the question...unless they out rank you.....have a backbone. Haven't had a whole lot of experiences with Shirts, but the first one I ever had was awesome. Doesn't the Shirt pretty much speak for the commander though? I mean if the Shirt says something, is it just like it is coming from the Commander himself 99% of the time? (Serious questions, no sarcasm intended) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Haven't had a whole lot of experiences with Shirts, but the first one I ever had was awesome. Doesn't the Shirt pretty much speak for the commander though? I mean if the Shirt says something, is it just like it is coming from the Commander himself 99% of the time? (Serious questions, no sarcasm intended) The First Sergeant is responsible for the morale, welfare, and conduct of all the enlisted members in a squadron and is the chief adviser to the squadron commander concerning the enlisted force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 The First Sergeant is responsible for the morale, welfare, and conduct of all the enlisted members in a squadron and is the chief adviser to the squadron commander concerning the enlisted force. Thanks for the reply Vertigo. So the Shirt really shouldn't be saying anything to Officers in the first place huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Form 8 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 The First Sergeant is responsible for the morale, welfare, and conduct of all the enlisted members in a squadron and is the chief adviser to the squadron commander concerning the enlisted force. On paper that's correct. In practice, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I'm guessing that by addressing issues with officers, he can squash the enlisted defense of "well I saw capt so & so doing it." my only experience with a shirt was when i was casual, and it was definitely a positive one. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HossHarris Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Next, the man forwarded at least 6 email a day. It got to the point that he totally chaffed the squadrons mailboxs and the boss never reeled it in, so the CGOs started the quiet revolt and set up auto reply so he got one email that said "THANKS!!!" every time he sent us something. He stopped in less than a day, email traffic dropped to almost zero. That's a good one to keep in your bag of tricks for those soon to be an LPA.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coasta Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 My one and only experience in a flying squadron with a no kidding diamond-wearing first sergeant was the guy was an f-ing clueless REMF. And I mean that with absolutely no respect whatsoever. When we deployed to the stage in 05, we had guys at 7 different bases in the AOR. This clown made sure he went to all of them and made sure the stage guys had email set up for him at each base... as in firstsergeant.remf@auab.centaf.af.mil - for every base he visited, BECAUSE IN HIS 20 YEARS IN THE USAF HE HAD NEVER DEPLOYED OUTSIDE THE CONUS and thus had no clue the internet, and thus email, was available everywhere. His visits included breaking dudes crew rest to do 'room inspections' and making sure my mustache didnt extend past my upper lip, as well as the standard "explain that to me" conversations required to teach a MSgt everything about the war and how we fly and fight because he was entirely clueless and apparently has never seen CNN or read the Washington Post, let alone done any PME. This dudes wife had a no-shit nervous breakdown when she found out he was leaving, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS 20 YEAR CAREER! She apparently couldnt take the thought of him not running her life and emailing her 8 times a day for 4 months.... but I digress. Next, the man forwarded at least 6 email a day. It got to the point that he totally chaffed the squadrons mailboxs and the boss never reeled it in, so the CGOs started the quiet revolt and set up auto reply so he got one email that said "THANKS!!!" every time he sent us something. He stopped in less than a day, email traffic dropped to almost zero. Some of the best experiences I have had with Shirts were from the dudes who used to be, or are still flyers. They always seem level headed, flexible and ready/willing to help - but you still get forwarded emails, just at a more managable level. I guess I just had a retard for a shirt at some point... Chuck Oh man! I remember that dude. I unleashed on him when I was at Kuwait, then again at Turkey for his unsolicited "help." (Please note that teh CC was phoned immediately after each lashing) I had to explain to him that my guys were there to do a mission, were working 12+ hr/day, and that I didn't want him in the way. All the shoeclerkiness of the AF was on hold and my crew (mostly the dirtbags of the squadron) was given the tools/time they needed to accomplish their mission. I think the Kuwait C-17 stage was the last bastion of sanity I had in Active Duty until I closed that down for ramp repair. I remember the "Thanks" autoreply. As I remember it, even the sq leadership was involved--classic! Coasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitaryToFinance Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Back on the blues subject. I know you're technically allowed to wear black cowboy boots with your blues but really who does that? Maybe it's because people think of CO as being "out west" or maybe because 90% of the people at my base are missiles guys but I see it all the time. I always thought it was one of those weird things that nobody really did but every Monday I see at least 2 or 3 different people wearing cowboy boots and I think it really looks retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alarm Red Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Back on the blues subject. I know you're technically allowed to wear black cowboy boots with your blues but really who does that? Maybe it's because people think of CO as being "out west" or maybe because 90% of the people at my base are missiles guys but I see it all the time. I always thought it was one of those weird things that nobody really did but every Monday I see at least 2 or 3 different people wearing cowboy boots and I think it really looks retarded. The blue uniform itself doesn't look that great. I think the TSA has sharper looking uniforms. If someone wants to wear cowboy boots with blues, and they're more comfortable for them, I'm all for it. One thing that should be outlawed though is wear of the tie with short-sleeved blues. The only thing that could make that combination look worse is wearing white athletic socks with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Blues would look so much better if everyone wore crew neck t-shirts. This seems like the most obvious thing to change, but it never gets changed! Has the V-neck always been USAF policy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Seat Driver Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Blues would look so much better if everyone wore crew neck t-shirts. This seems like the most obvious thing to change, but it never gets changed! Has the V-neck always been USAF policy? Nope. As I recall, a certain former CSAF who was a former Thunderbird loved rocking out the V-neck so much that he made everyone were them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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