xaarman Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) Everything bad is temporary. You can only change things if you want to stay in. Don't be greedy or selfish. Haven't you heard of our second core value, Service Before Self? Nobody joined the military to get rich. I can't be the only one who joined for the honor and privilege of serving my country. You all took an oath. Am I missing any? Edited February 21, 2016 by xaarman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 You forgot, "We don't really understand why people are leaving. Can you give us feedback (yet again) so we may make real, lasting change at the Air Force level?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Curious if he's meeting with takers and non-takers in the eligible pool. One of the emails that was resent had a dude's name taken off of it since he already took the bonus. It was weird cause the list has a few prior E's on there who I thought weren't bonus eligible. I assume it's an AMS pull of everyone who hasn't taken the bonus. But I don't have a damn clue, I just see the email traffic and wonder while I wait for my parole. The provision in the bonus contract that previously limited prior-Es due to total time in service at end of their UPT commitment was changed with this year's program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Seat Driver Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 13 hours ago, Herk Driver said: Where did you hear that? The takers and non takers are identified within AMS. The feet on the ramp policy was an AF policy...not individual senior raters taking any action. Copy, thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, xaarman said: Everything bad is temporary. You can only change things if you want to stay in. Don't be greedy or selfish. Haven't you heard of our second core value, Service Before Self? Nobody joined the military to get rich. I can't be the only one who joined for the honor and privilege of serving my country. You all took an oath. Am I missing any? I joined to serve my country not get rich, however I also joined an organization that touts integrity first but has a horrendous toxic leadership problem. Everything bad is only temporary if those in the leadership positions with the power to change it actually care, so far senior leadership seems content to keep their head buried in the sand as people run for the exits. People are bailing this ship left and right and nobody is asking why because they hold to the idiotic mentalities of "if you don't like it get out" or "there's always someone to take your place". Most people are tired of being deployed to fight a war with no long term strategy or staring down the barrel of a 365 after years gone already because nobody will throw the bullshit flag on useless or obsolete deployed billets. I'm tired of hearing my career field is overmanned and watch AFPC make forces cuts like a bull in a china shop, while I'm left trying to fill lines with no bodies available or quick turn the crew to their 2nd or 3rd trip in a row because there's literally nobody else. I watch my tanker bros come home from a 60 day deployment to turn right back out to another 60 day deployment a month later. I'm tired of leaders who refuse to step up and tell Congress we don't have the people and funding to perform the missions they task us with, while watching those same people bend over backwards day in and day out to ensure the mission doesn't fail while hoping that help is just around the corner. I'm proud to wear my uniform on a daily basis but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with our organization and it is most certainly not above scrutiny. Edited February 21, 2016 by Fuzz 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaarman Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) Definitely man, sometimes sarcastic tones doesn't translate well over the internets. Edited February 21, 2016 by xaarman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 1 hour ago, xaarman said: Definitely man, sometimes sarcastic tones doesn't translate well over the internets. My apologies, further proof for the need of a sarcasm font. The sarcasm mirrors reality so closely now a days, its hard to tell the difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 It's just a job. The Air Force is just a business. This way I don't get my feels hurt when the Air Force does stupid stuff. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 What meeting? Too lazy to scroll up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopyeast Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 On 2/21/2016 at 6:21 AM, Jaded said: You forgot, "We don't really understand why people are leaving. Can you give us feedback (yet again) so we may make real, lasting change at the Air Force level?" Soon after the last rounds of RIF/VSP mass exodus, some people came from the NAF to ask those of us still in what our thoughts were on the current state of the AF. Someone from the squadron told the NAF folks that the AF missed a golden opportunity by not asking the VSPers why they wanted to get out. This was met with the deer in the headlights look from the visitors. Probably because of the reasons listed above. Quitters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prozac Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Butters said: Retire in December. I will let you know. Not if stop loss gets here first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I know far more guys who have been hired than guys who are still waiting for a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwatch Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Nope, can't do both! Well, I could go to one then the other... Long story short I may not be able to work at BT&E due to Nepotism rules. Good, because if that is the case the Boeing check that goes in our account is getting bigger. My choice to do airlines now rests on the fact we want a bigger boat. I can be a QOL guy and make that happen. If I go stay at home dad I have to keep my 45 foot boat. Choices... Oh, and there was a 7 hour line for United at NGPA, thought the airlines would have hired all these pilots by now? PNW Aviation conference had over 600 people taking to Alaska trying to get 80-130 jobs. Pilots shortages suck. When I asked "where is butters", this is exactly what I was looking for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Wait, did Butters admit he might go airlines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jughead Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 19 minutes ago, matmacwc said: Wait, did Butters admit he might go airlines? Not only that, he doesn't need any prep.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 In his defense I know guys that got hired without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 But did they have Butter's magnetic personality? God knows we love you Butters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TnkrToad Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Some recent news, relevant to the bonus discussion: I must have been asleep at the wheel, but Republic Airways filed for bankruptcy six days ago, citing a pilot shortage. If they and other regionals fix their shortages by offering reasonable wages, this could provide all the more incentive for folks to bail from AD. http://www.forbes.com/sites/grantmartin/2016/02/26/republic-airways-files-for-bankruptcy/#b583c9712fc4 The CSAF testified before Congress yesterday re: pilot retention issues. According to the article, "The Air Force also wants to increase retention pay for both manned and unmanned pilots to $35,000 a year—a move Congress will have to sign off on." I almost laughed out loud when I read Welsh called it a "long-awaited" issue. I can't square that rhetoric with the reality of recent pilot force management. http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2016/March%202016/March%2003%202016/Welsh-The-Pilot-Retention-Problem-is-Here.aspx The last update of bonus take rate stats was posted on 8 Feb--almost four weeks ago. I suspect it's because they've gotten few new takers, so nothing new to report. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunya Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 If the regionals fix their pay, the AF won't just have a problem with retention; they'll have a problem with recruiting. I had a student in primary that left the regionals for the Navy mainly due to the low pay. O-2s make more than regional FOs. Can't quote stats, but there are certainly some AF pilots that joined because the civilian path wasn't financially realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 It's the governments problem requiring 1500 hours to fly for the airlines. People that spend that much money on flying don't want to work for 20-40k for 5 or more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 All of the airlines and the pilot unions should get together and approach the gov with a better plan than the one in place now for the faas knee jerk reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 "To address the problem, USAF is maximizing schoolhouse capacity in an effort to increase pilot production, it's revisiting the operational demand signal for pilots in non-flying jobs, and is working with RAND Corp. to assess the net effects of the airlines' hiring surge, said Welsh." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseAg03 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 "To address the problem, USAF is maximizing schoolhouse capacity in an effort to increase pilot production, it's revisiting the operational demand signal for pilots in non-flying jobs, and is working with RAND Corp. to assess the net effects of the airlines' hiring surge, said Welsh." I'm here, send me to any manned airframe. It's not just a retention problem due to external forces, they've pissed off thousands of experienced pilots by locking them in GCSs for the foreseeable future. I don't know one person in my situation (non-vol to RPA crossflow) who isn't looking for the fastest exit. You want to fix this shit? Get us back into a cockpit. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned1 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 My friends, it is only a matter of supply and demand. It is YOUR labor for sale. And you must demand a fair compensation for what is being required Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn15 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 The proposal to increase the bonus to $35K just barely covers inflation from 2000-2016. $25K in 2000 = $34,325 today. The other pay factor worthy of discussion is the ACIP. Hasn't increased in the critical 6-14 year range since 1990. $650 in 1990 = $1178 today. Pay won't keep everyone in, but it certainly won't hurt to take us back to pay rates on par or better than the 2000 era, which was the last time the AF was worried about retention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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