Fighter TOLD/W&B

[ToHoldShort]

13 hours ago, GettinReady said:

Not a 22 guy, but the Viper’s flaps are tied to the gear handle. Is the 22 like this as well or is it a separate switch? It was never mentioned in the AIB, or maybe it was and i missed it when I skimmed through it. Still trying to rationalize how that «accident» could have happened. 
 

For anyone out there in T-38 land, do not early rotate. 

No separate switch for the flaps, similar to the viper were the fight control computer positions the flaps  with the gear down

[GettinReady]

On 3/28/2024 at 9:08 PM, ToHoldShort said:

No separate switch for the flaps, similar to the viper were the fight control computer positions the flaps  with the gear down

Thanks

Yep, makes total sense now.

Flaps up right after rotation seems like a great idea in a low energy state close to the ground. AIBs are usually less about teaching and more about blame. Maybe the safety report dug more into it. 

Edited April 5 by GettinReady

[tac airlifter]

On 3/27/2024 at 11:58 AM, BashiChuni said:

UPT O&Bs happen everyday, we have the resources

it's about focusing on going somewhere different and exposing SPs to new environments, not just the canned 100nm away stereo airfield.

 

100% right.  Instructors who enable students to experience every edge of the flight envelope make them ready & confident when the unexpected happens in an adverse environment.  

[HuggyU2]

2 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

 Instructors who enable students to experience every edge of the flight envelope make them ready & confident when the unexpected happens in an adverse environment.  

Totally agree. 

Yet there are still plenty of T-38 IPs that tell their students to fly with their feet flat on the floor... e.g. don't touch the rudder pedals. 

Edited March 29 by HuggyU2

[TreeA10]

On 3/29/2024 at 9:03 AM, HuggyU2 said:

Totally agree. 

Yet there are still plenty of T-38 IPs that tell their students to fly with their feet flat on the floor... e.g. don't touch the rudder pedals. 

It's been a while since I taught in the mighty Talon and while I agree the rudder is there for a purpose, operated incorrectly can have spectacular results.  For instance, I'm working the RSU on the center runway at Columbus when a formation landing comes in.  Approaching the flare, the Student wingman is drifting into lead and applies rudder.  This results in a near 90 degree roll as I transmit with enthusiasm "Go around burner.". The IP was way ahead of me, got the jet upright as it does a three point bounce and go.  I found them in the squadron later.  The IP acted unfazed but the student was still white as a sheet after his "significant emotional event."  There is a time, place, and technique for everything. Choose wisely.

Edited March 30 by TreeA10

[HuggyU2]

Hence the reason you learn to use the rudder in the MOA, at 8,000 AGL. 

The T-38 has quite the roll rate with 3/4 or greater aileron deflection. ... but I don't see anyone telling students not to use the ailerons. 
 

I'd wager $2 that the student in your story was one of those told to fly without ever using the rudders. 

Edited March 29 by HuggyU2

[Danger41]

I remember doing BFM with my feet flat on the floor in the C model B course and needed to move the nose an RCH to the right but couldn’t lift my feet off the floor. So close yet so far away.
 

RC - Weak Calves.

[Springer]

On 3/28/2024 at 5:25 AM, GettinReady said:

Not a 22 guy, but the Viper’s flaps are tied to the gear handle. Is the 22 like this as well or is it a separate switch? It was never mentioned in the AIB, or maybe it was and i missed it when I skimmed through it. Still trying to rationalize how that «accident» could have happened. 
 

For anyone out there in T-38 land, do not early rotate. 

This is what was great about the mighty Phantom's "Rotate for Dummies".  You started the TO roll with full aft stick and let the a/c decide when to rotate. 

 

Edited April 4 by Springer
I fucked up my spelling, what else can I say?

[08Dawg]

17 hours ago, Springer said:

This is what was great about the mighty Phantom's "Rotate for Dummies".  You started the TO roll with full aft stick and let the a/c decide when to rotate. 

 

I thought the Phantom was deemed so ugly, the ground just decided when to repel it.  

[stract]

On 3/28/2024 at 5:55 AM, SocialD said:

I was a punk when they rolled out the coat hanger abortion that was the first release of JMPS.  We didn't have any civilian help so it was left to the punks to get it up and running, fix any bugs and make it work.  I spent lots of time on the phone with Penguin (can't remember his last name...Roberts maybe) out at Hill, who was a former fighter guy and the guru on JMPS.  If I remember correctly, he said JMPS told wasn't certified because the engineers showed that sometimes ut produced an error of 1 knot on the abort speed.  This is how dumb they are with this shit.  I'd love to put everyone in the sim and force them to make an abort decision with exactly 1 knot difference.  Or even better, have everyone try to gonk told manually and have everyone get the correct numbers and an abort speed within a knot lol.  

Hey, Penguin is still here.  @brabus

What's going on with F-16 JMPS WRT FPM, TOLD, and validating SCLs has been eye-opening (learning just how bad/wrong/out of date certain data sources were).  Trying to help be part of the solution!

Also, the Flight Performance Modelers work at the other end of my building, they build the FPMs for JMPS and the newish TOLD app that is coming out for most airframes.  They were glad to have me to come bug about helo TOLD and interpreting H-60 E-M charts, lol.

Edited April 6 by stract