Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[Prozac]

Hope everybody keeps their powder dry. Still not confirmed projectiles we’re Russian. Even if they were, it’s doubtful the targets were in Poland. Reports are that rockets struck a farm. Russians aren’t exactly known for their precision targeting these days & may have been trying to hit something more militarily significant inside Ukraine. If it was an accident, I hope the response will be something other than a kinetic one. 

[ClearedHot]

7 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Hope everybody keeps their powder dry. Still not confirmed projectiles we’re Russian. Even if they were, it’s doubtful the targets were in Poland. Reports are that rockets struck a farm. Russians aren’t exactly known for their precision targeting these days & may have been trying to hit something more militarily significant inside Ukraine. If it was an accident, I hope the response will be something other than a kinetic one. 

Doesn't appear to be "rockets", and they know it was Russian...trust me...they know.

Happened during a large missile attack across the country (appeared to be targeting power production and distribution).  The impact site is just west of the Ukrainian border, due north of LVIV.  If it was a rocket then it had to come from Belarus which would open a completely different can of worms...

 

[Prozac]

1 minute ago, ClearedHot said:

Doesn't appear to be "rockets", and they know it was Russian...trust me...they know.

Happened during a large missile attack across the country (appeared to be targeting power production and distribution).  The impact site is just west of the Ukrainian border, due north of LVIV.  If it was a rocket then it had to come from Belarus which would open a completely different can of worms...

 

Not disputing any of that. Just arguing that it’s a much different story/response if they were actively targeting Polish infrastructure vs something landing where it shouldn’t have. Not saying there shouldn’t be a response, but a couple stray munitions are probably not worth committing the entire alliance to war over. If it was intentional? Different story altogether…

[Prozac]

55 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Will Russia deny...would serve them best to fess up and apologize immediately before the hawks start chanting Article 5.

Looks like they’ve decided to deny. Stating there were no Russian strikes in the area. These guys haven’t played the smart move once since they decided to invade. Standby for some pissed off Poles. 

[uhhello]

We know where it came from and impacted.  So we know who launched it.  If it was Ukranian launched, rational me thinks they would have come out with "lets continue to investigate" versus going the article 4 route

[ClearedHot]

7 hours ago, uhhello said:

We know where it came from and impacted.  So we know who launched it.  If it was Ukranian launched, rational me thinks they would have come out with "lets continue to investigate" versus going the article 4 route

They are starting to report the missiles were tracked from launch to impact by airborne NATO aircraft and they think it was a Ukrainian missile attempting to intercept a Russian missile.

[Danger41]

Ukrainian missile hits NATO country and article 5 gets invoked to roll the Ukrainians now?! Didn’t see that coming.

[McJay Pilot]

20 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

Ukrainian missile hits NATO country and article 5 gets invoked to roll the Ukrainians now?! Didn’t see that coming.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

[dream big]

14 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Ukrainian missile hits NATO country and article 5 gets invoked to roll the Ukrainians now?! Didn’t see that coming.

Man this is going to make Biden’s proposed 37 Billion Dollar aid package to Ukraine all the more interesting. 

[Prozac]

16 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Ukrainian missile hits NATO country and article 5 gets invoked to roll the Ukrainians now?! Didn’t see that coming.

Care to elaborate? I missed most of today’s news cycle although I did see where the going explanation is stray Ukrainian SAM. Haven’t seen anything about NATO suggesting retaliating against Ukraine in any way. 

[gearhog]

[gearhog]

Zalensky issues a statement clarifying the event and finally puts the matter to rest: Ukraine doesn’t make mistakes. Only NATO and Russia do. 

[Danger41]

7 hours ago, Prozac said:

Care to elaborate? I missed most of today’s news cycle although I did see where the going explanation is stray Ukrainian SAM. Haven’t seen anything about NATO suggesting retaliating against Ukraine in any way. 

[uhhello]

14 hours ago, Prozac said:

Care to elaborate? I missed most of today’s news cycle although I did see where the going explanation is stray Ukrainian SAM. Haven’t seen anything about NATO suggesting retaliating against Ukraine in any way. 

You didn't get your orders? 

[Boomer6]

On 11/16/2022 at 4:29 AM, ClearedHot said:

Doesn't appear to be "rockets", and they know it was Russian...trust me...they know.

 

[LookieRookie]

On 11/15/2022 at 12:29 PM, ClearedHot said:

Doesn't appear to be "rockets", and they know it was Russian...trust me...they know.

Happened during a large missile attack across the country (appeared to be targeting power production and distribution).  The impact site is just west of the Ukrainian border, due north of LVIV.  If it was a rocket then it had to come from Belarus which would open a completely different can of worms...

 

So we shouldn’t trust you?

[ClearedHot]

11 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

So we shouldn’t trust you?

That is your decision.

It wasn't a "rocket" and that was known immediately.  The insinuation from that statement was it was an unguided artillery rocket Russia have employed VERY large numbers of this type of weapon which is part of their ground and pound doctrine.  They rockets while powerful do not have the range to go from the current occupied territories to Poland, a distance of many hundreds of miles hence my comment about Belarus.

It was a missile, meaning there was a guidance package.  The incident occurred during a large Russian missile attack on Ukrainian power grid infrastructure.  NATO aircraft were airborne and observing at the time, they in fact knew and tracked the point of origin and ground track of many of the incoming missiles.  Ukraine's air defense system was active and likely saturated, it has been reported that the Ukrainians shot down as many as 70+ missiles in that raid alone.

Initial forensic examination (picture below), indicates this was an S-300, so regardless of who shot it, it was a "Russian" missile.  However which side shot it has not been "officially" released. I speak with folks forward very often and one has told me there was in fact an inbound missile on the same inbound aspect that was engaged by the Ukrainians, that hostile missile had missed its intended target and was going "long".  Many Russian missiles have suffered from serious guidance and propulsion issues with one particular class suffering a 60% failure rate (someone needs to unpack that one).   There is a team on the ground and the Ukrainians (and Russians), have been allowed to participate.  One supposition is there were two missiles, the Russian attacking missile and a Ukrainian S-300 launched to intercept.  Another possibility is the Ukrainian missile missed and went long into Poland and the same track line.  Yet another option is the S-300 simply came out of the tube and went stupid, again on the same track line.  The S-300 has had some spectacular failures so that is always a distinct possibility as seen in the videos below.

Interestingly it has come to light that the Russians are have been using some variants of the S-300 in the surface to surface role.  A very expensive and not very accurate way of delivering a 300 pound warhead.  That is not likely what happened in this case.

 

[Sua Sponte]

 

 

[ClearedHot]

Drone V Drone warfare...

And EPIC video of Russian Cruise missiles being intercepted over a residential area.

 

[ClearedHot]

Russian forces were suffering from 'electronic fratricide' within days of attacking Ukraine, a new report says

[Sim]

On 11/18/2022 at 4:35 AM, ClearedHot said:

it was a "Russian" missile.  However which side shot it has not been "officially" released.

https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-ap-fires-reporter-responsible-for-fake-story-alleging-russian-missiles-hit-poland

[Blue]

Don't usually get into the minutia of upvoting/downvoting, but @Best-22, why on earth would you downvote that article?

[gearhog]

 

UN just said over 100,000K Ukraine soldiers dead. Perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention, but that number is absolutely staggering. More than all US service member losses since WWII.

[gearhog]

On 11/22/2022 at 12:38 PM, Blue said:

Don't usually get into the minutia of upvoting/downvoting, but @Best-22, why on earth would you downvote that article?

Contributes nothing, only downvotes. Probably someone's alternate account. upvotesdDownvotes are no longer counted on this forum. Why even bother?

[Best-22]

4 hours ago, torqued said:

 

UN just said over 100,000K Ukraine soldiers dead. Perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention, but that number is absolutely staggering. More than all US service member losses since WWII.

It was the EC not the UN, and that statement was inaccurate/highly misleading and was almost immediately retracted: 

“Many thanks to those who pointed out the inaccuracy regarding the figures in a previous version of this video,” EC spokesperson Dana Spinant said in a Tweet a short while after the speech. “The estimation used, from external sources, should have referred to casualties, i.e. both killed and injured, and was meant to show Russia‘s brutality."

 

"But Russian propagandists immediately pounced on the 100,000 figure, with one accusing the EC of saying Ukraine is lying about how many of its troops have died since Feb. 24."

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-another-body-count-controversy