The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[uhhello]

35 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

First mistake right there haha! Most TV news gives you brain worms very fast.

Well, its where the great majority of the US gets their news still.  On the flip side, if you flip on twitter or the like, you would be led to believe that "name your group" is being led away to concentration camps OR "name your group" will be leading your family to concentration camps.  Quite the pickle.  

[Ryder1587]

6 hours ago, FourFans said:

I think you mis-understand the argument.  It's not about Christianity.  It about the moral and ethical foundations of the country.  Our country was founded on Judeo-Christian values, principles, and morals.  In the same way as a house, if you try and move the structure off that foundation, the whole thing collapses.  Imagine Iran as a whole suddenly being forced to shift to Hindu, Buddist, or Christian values.  The society would collapse.  Same with America.  The difference being that in America, so many people have had liberty and freedom that they paid no price for, for so long, that they don't appreciate what they have, so they are ignorant to the facts of our society's structure.  There's reason Wokeness hasn't caught on in Russia, Iran, or China.  Freedom and liberty, unfortunately, often result in ignorant arrogance after a few generations.

So it's not about Christianity for Christ's sake, it's about Christianity because those values are the foundational structure of our country.

I see.  That makes sense.  The question becomes then how do you get back to those morales without forcing religion?  I’m not religious but I have those morales because I was raised to be a good person and treat everyone with respect.  The question is how does that become widespread?  There’s a huge lack of taking responsibility going on right now and how you turn that ship around is a great question.  I think the only people living in la la land are the ones saying things are going great.  I think it’s pretty obvious if we keep the current course the history books will talk about the fall of the US. 

[Biff_T]

5 hours ago, nsplayr said:

@Biff_T dude NGL you have a weird and consistent obsession with trans people and their issues. Has someone who is trans hurt you in some way or what are we talking about? You have brought this up in damn near every post recently even when seemingly unrelated things are being discussed just prior, and it’s strange.

I’m legit not trying to bash you but I don’t understand this aspect of your posts.

Because it's being peddled like crack to our society, especially the children. 

My best friend is a drug addict with mental issues.   He decided in November that, he's adding becoming a woman to his list of stupid things he's done since his life has spiraled out of control.  I can't do anything to help his kids.  I visit him several times a month.  On several occasions, he has answered the door tweaking out of his mind  looking like a man version of Cruella De Vil.  We've (my family, his parents and his ex wife) tried to help him so much throughout the last few years only to see him do this to himself and his family.  It's not some innocent game of dressup we're playing when we push this crazy shit onto society, especially to people with mental health problems.  That's why it's an issue for me.  After watching our leaders fumble through the Covid pandemic, I have zero faith in what they consider is medically safe.  If I just sit back and say everything about the trans movement is OK, I'm not helping my friend.  I know that one day, I'm going to find him dead from suicide or a drug overdose.  I'm also thinking about a child 20 years from now who decides that maybe cutting off their dong or tits at age 12 wasn't their best idea.   I'm tired of stupidity.  That's why I can't get behind (sts) the trans movement.  I have no faith in out government's ability to tell us about medical  issues, especially when it comes to permanently disfiguring our bodies.  

Thanks for being concerned though.  

Edited April 3, 2023 by Biff_T
Spelling bee failure

[Biff_T]

6 hours ago, nsplayr said:

even when seemingly unrelated things are being discussed just prior, and it’s strange.

 

14 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

 

I posted my carny theory after a YouTube video about Trans Vengeance was posted.  Immediately after.  

[FourFans]

1 hour ago, Ryder1587 said:

I see.  That makes sense.  The question becomes then how do you get back to those morales without forcing religion?  I’m not religious but I have those morales because I was raised to be a good person and treat everyone with respect.  The question is how does that become widespread? 

This would solve 60% of it:

On 3/31/2023 at 3:38 AM, FourFans said:

It's simple.

Incentivize men to stay in the home, providing with and for the mother with whom they create kids.

Protect the family unit, and America will survive.

 

[lloyd christmas]

9 hours ago, Ryder1587 said:

I see.  That makes sense.  The question becomes then how do you get back to those morales without forcing religion?  I’m not religious but I have those morales because I was raised to be a good person and treat everyone with respect.  The question is how does that become widespread?  There’s a huge lack of taking responsibility going on right now and how you turn that ship around is a great question.  I think the only people living in la la land are the ones saying things are going great.  I think it’s pretty obvious if we keep the current course the history books will talk about the fall of the US. 

The church community gives our society a lot more than just religion.  I see that in my family.  My wife needed a circle of friends after our last move.  She found that in our church’s small groups and their women’s group. It is where we go to spend time with people that hold our same values even if we aren’t in the same place in our religious journey.  

And that ties directly into the war on the nuclear family.  Families used to spend time together in church.  It is a place to grow together, to learn together and to work in service towards others together.  Most families don’t even eat together anymore.  

There is absolutely no doubt that our society would be in a much better place if more people were involved in church.  Not just sitting through service on Sunday but involved in church even if it’s not solely for religious reasons.  

[brabus]

What Lloyd said. The church was our society’s meeting place and source of morals and values (specifically the ones that transcend religion). Now social media and the MSM has replaced the church, both packed with anti-family and anti-moral garbage. And there in lies Pandora’s box - were never going back from SM (which is probably the worst thing to have ever happened to us in the modern era). So the only course correct now is parents need to sack up and actually work at maintaining a stable family and raising their kids correctly. They need to also help their local communities do this by being involved/aware about school issues.

All the millions of people who hate all the BS going on, but are too big of pussies to stand up and say/do something, need to sack up and stop being weak candy asses. Some of you reading this right now are those pussies, I guarantee it. Do some introspection, then get off your asses and do something about the BS. How can you be willing to get in a gun fight, but you won’t speak at school board meetings? Why aren’t you or your spouse running for school board, city council, etc? Why do you complain to your neighbor over beers about all the trans mental health issues being pushed on kids, but you say nothing about your kids “celebrate trans or you’re a bigot” homework? If these describe you, even indirectly, you’re fucking up. But the good part is you can recognize it, and fix it. 

[Prozac]

15 minutes ago, lloyd christmas said:

The church community gives our society a lot more than just religion.  I see that in my family.  My wife needed a circle of friends after our last move.  She found that in our church’s small groups and their women’s group. It is where we go to spend time with people that hold our same values even if we aren’t in the same place in our religious journey.  

And that ties directly into the war on the nuclear family.  Families used to spend time together in church.  It is a place to grow together, to learn together and to work in service towards others together.  Most families don’t even eat together anymore.  

There is absolutely no doubt that our society would be in a much better place if more people were involved in church.  Not just sitting through service on Sunday but involved in church even if it’s not solely for religious reasons.  

I think there is definitely a lot of truth here. Problem is, many of us are turned off by organized religion for one reason or another. Not interested in debating the finer points of religious beliefs here because people tend to have already formed very strong opinions on the subject, but suffice to say that my family has tried several different churches/denominations/non-denominations and have not found any of them to be representative of our values. I know I’m not alone in this. Fellowship doesn’t necessarily have to be about religion though. I sometimes wonder if a non-religious community center/definitely-not-a-church type of venue could serve the same role. Encourage the community to come together, talk about common goals and values, no phones(!), serve some bbq and local microbrews at the end, maybe host some community service events, but no religious bent, no judgment, no exclusion. Do it one afternoon a month instead of making everybody get up early every damn Sunday & I’ll bet you’d get a significant chunk of most communities at least talking to each other somewhat regularly. 

[brabus]

5 minutes ago, Prozac said:

I think there is definitely a lot of truth here. Problem is, many of us are turned off by organized religion for one reason or another. Not interested in debating the finer points of religious beliefs here because people tend to have already formed very strong opinions on the subject, but suffice to say that my family has tried several different churches/denominations/non-denominations and have not found any of them to be representative of our values. I know I’m not alone in this. Fellowship doesn’t necessarily have to be about religion though. I sometimes wonder if a non-religious community center/definitely-not-a-church type of venue could serve the same role. Encourage the community to come together, talk about common goals and values, no phones(!), serve some bbq and local microbrews at the end, maybe host some community service events, but no religious bent, no judgment, no exclusion. Do it one afternoon a month instead of making everybody get up early every damn Sunday & I’ll bet you’d get a significant chunk of most communities at least talking to each other somewhat regularly. 

I think what you describe exists all over, just have to promote them better and entice people to go. A tight knit community is a great way to help this problem - it will make people actually care about others outside of themselves. Every neighborhood needs the 1 or 2 houses who are always down to host a weekend hang out or a party for no reason (or reason, whatever). Everyone else bring what’s needed so the host isn’t paying for it all. It’s really that easy, just need Americans to get back to the time where you knew your neighbors and sought out their company. That exists is parts of the US, but it doesn’t exist in too many places. 

[Lord Ratner]

36 minutes ago, Prozac said:

I think there is definitely a lot of truth here. Problem is, many of us are turned off by organized religion for one reason or another. Not interested in debating the finer points of religious beliefs here because people tend to have already formed very strong opinions on the subject, but suffice to say that my family has tried several different churches/denominations/non-denominations and have not found any of them to be representative of our values. I know I’m not alone in this. Fellowship doesn’t necessarily have to be about religion though. I sometimes wonder if a non-religious community center/definitely-not-a-church type of venue could serve the same role. Encourage the community to come together, talk about common goals and values, no phones(!), serve some bbq and local microbrews at the end, maybe host some community service events, but no religious bent, no judgment, no exclusion. Do it one afternoon a month instead of making everybody get up early every damn Sunday & I’ll bet you’d get a significant chunk of most communities at least talking to each other somewhat regularly. 

It's called a club. There are millions of them. Pick an interest and go.

 

The problem isn't finding a group, the problem is showing up. Religion has always had the advantage of threatening you with eternal damnation if you don't go, and the social pressure from other parishioners if you skip out. Conversely, you don't get the same judgement or shame if you miss the pickleball meeting on Tuesday night.

 

You gotta show up. That's all it takes. Put the same group of people in proximity to each other repeatedly and regularly, and the community and all the associated bonds will form. But you have to miss other things. TV shows, concerts, other parties, rest at home, etc.

The internet has let us form more homogeneous groups, which is bad for diversity (mental, not skin color), and all the biological forces that build community are negated because they only work in person.

 

Our brains need it. This is why impoverished cultures don't have the same suicide rates that the West is contending with. We are hyper-connected, yet all alone.

[Prozac]

6 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

It's called a club. There are millions of them. Pick an interest and go.

 

The problem isn't finding a group, the problem is showing up. Religion has always had the advantage of threatening you with eternal damnation if you don't go, and the social pressure from other parishioners if you skip out. Conversely, you don't get the same judgement or shame if you miss the pickleball meeting on Tuesday night.

 

You gotta show up. That's all it takes. Put the same group of people in proximity to each other repeatedly and regularly, and the community and all the associated bonds will form. But you have to miss other things. TV shows, concerts, other parties, rest at home, etc.

The internet has let us form more homogeneous groups, which is bad for diversity (mental, not skin color), and all the biological forces that build community are negated because they only work in person.

 

Our brains need it. This is why impoverished cultures don't have the same suicide rates that the West is contending with. We are hyper-connected, yet all alone.

Absolutely correct. All of that works as advertised & is well worth the time & investment. But it still misses the mark somewhat when it comes to the wider community. I’ve talked & interacted with a lot of interesting people I would have otherwise never met at cycling, car enthusiast, aviation, country club, and other events/clubs. But at the end of the day, the kinds of people that are interested in the things I’m interested in tend to be somewhat homogeneous (Biff, look that word up before you pass judgment 🤣). I think there is probably some utility in casting a wider net & putting people with disparate interests together on a semi-regular basis. 

[HuggyU2]

9 hours ago, Prozac said:

I sometimes wonder if a non-religious community center/definitely-not-a-church type of venue could serve the same role. 

No, I don't believe it would work.  

[Danger41]

Much like California being a great place except for alot of the Californians, I see the same thing in the church. There are a ton of Christians that miss the forest for the trees and use certain verses as a cudgel to push shitty ideology. 
 

My brother was a drug addict that literally nearly killed me as a baby and would have killed himself if not for our churches youth pastor, pastor, and my dad (no shit talked him off a literal ledge with a gun in his hand). They got him in recovery, helped him along the way, and he became a very successful person. He also relapsed twice and the church family helped him. Conversely, I know families where the parents divorce and they are excommunicated from the church. I don’t want to get into a dogmatic argument about all of that, but that kind of thing does more damage to the church than damn near anything.

[FourFans]

19 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

No, I don't believe it would work.  

-edit to stop derailing this-

Edited April 4, 2023 by FourFans

[nsplayr]

4 minutes ago, FourFans said:

Simpletons who refuse to examine history @Prozac @nsplayr are even more saddening to me…

Am I involved in this conversation at all? Super confused by tagging me here.

@FourFans do you have any idea what my beliefs on this topic are? Do I attend church regularly with my family? Do I think that religious groups on the whole are a positive influence on society? What are my views on loneliness, social connection, or the importance of unifying goals and values to a group?

Why don’t you go ahead and tell me Mr. Smart Guy, because you’re such a fucking wise student of history and I am but a smooth-brain simpleton 😂

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, FourFans said:

Agreed.  How people can examine history and somehow think that concepts even approaching the realm of socialism or communism will work is sincerely sad.

Simpletons who refuse to examine history @Prozac @nsplayr are even more saddening to me: They observe the obvious lessons and still decide the facts don't apply to them.  They get to determine their own reality...which everyone else must acknowledge, affirm, and support...regardless of facts, science, and history.

 

Awww shucks. And here I thought the discussion was headed in a positive direction for once. So let me get this straight: If I choose not to attend church, I must be a socialist/communist? Is that the crux of your argument? ‘Cause I gotta say, you sound like the totalitarian prick here. ‘Yeah, it’s a free country…..until you choose a path different from mine’. If you’re an officer I feel bad for the poor saps who have to follow your orders. You must just be a joy to work with. Hopefully you aren’t in charge of Jack shit. Please accept this small gift to enjoy at your leisure: 

[FourFans]

Oh look, thin skin.

-edit to stop derailing this-

Edited April 4, 2023 by FourFans

[Prozac]

32 minutes ago, FourFans said:

Oh look, thin skin.

Interesting how the conversation changes when you two are the ones are on the receiving end of hyperbolic generalizations, instead of you the frivolously casting around those same sorts of statements about conservatives.   How's it feel to be on the other side of that stick?  Frankly, I don't give a shit how butt hurt you get about politics.  You both throw a lot of exaggerated shade at conservative arguments.  If you can't take it, don't throw it.

Supporting my statement about history: Our current administration is taking our country on the steady march towards nationalistic tyranny that innumerable nations and states have taken before.  Any student of history that goes farther back then the 20's century can easily see that.  When someone appears to blindly support the march we're on without offering a logical and rational support for their beliefs when asked, then yeah, I'll call that person's belief structure foolish.  

So yes, I called you both simpletons based on what appears in previous posts to be a rather blind allegiance to a liberal belief structure, not because it's sound and good for our country, but because it's liberal.  Notice how I didn't say jack shit about your personal beliefs?  Yeah, because I don't know what they are, even though I've asked...multiple times...and you both refuse to elaborate one WHY questions.  Yes, @nsplayr did elaborate quite a bit of WHAT answers (which I greatly appreciate) but not at all on the WHY you belief what you do...which is what I continue to ask.

Oh yeah, neither of you know a damn thing about my personal beliefs either, as neither of you have ever asked.  But hey, feel free to make shit up about me, generalize how conservatives are dumb, and coddle those bruised egos.  If you're ever in NW Florida, look me up and we can settle those hurt feelings on the jiu jitsu mats.  Nothing cures a case of irrationality quite like waking up after getting choked out.  I've been there myself, and I'd be happy to help you both out.

Have fun with your emotional anguish and that cool bag of dicks though.  Should I assume you're cool if those dicks are on girls instead of men?  This is the woke thread after all.

Did you eat a lot of paste as a child? 

[FourFans]

I broke rule number one about arguing on the internet.  

As we've resorted to childish taunts, I'm clearly hurting sensitive feelings.

I'll stop de-railing the woke thread. 

Back to the discussion of how to have community without religion.  Good luck with that.

Edited April 4, 2023 by FourFans

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, FourFans said:

I broken rule number rule about arguing on the internet.  

As we've resorted to childish taunts, I'm clearly hurting sensitive feelings.

I'll stop de-railing the woke thread. 

Back to the discussion of how to have community without religion.  Good luck with that.

Might be for the best Mr. Internet Tough guy. I think I've engaged with you in pretty good faith, but for whatever reason you got hostile and started calling names 🤷‍♂️

If you want to use the quote function and debate about something I've said, feel free. If you want to ask specific questions, go for it. But probably leave out the part where you call folks simpletons, rubes, unpatriotic, etc. if you actually want a back-and-forth.

OTOH if you just want to have a karate fight on the beach or whatever...lol ok good luck with that.

Edit to add: Honestly that sounds pretty fun now that I say it like that 🥷🏖️

Edited April 4, 2023 by nsplayr

[Day Man]

1 hour ago, FourFans said:

I broken rule number rule about arguing on the internet.  

As we've resorted to childish taunts, I'm clearly hurting sensitive feelings.

I'll stop de-railing the woke thread. 

Back to the discussion of how to have community without religion.  Good luck with that.

break the wrist, walk away

[Smokin]

On 3/31/2023 at 10:54 PM, Day Man said:

any data to back that up?

Sorry, been busy.  How about these:

https://financesonline.com/single-parent-statistics/

https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children/

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/12/u-s-children-more-likely-than-children-in-other-countries-to-live-with-just-one-parent/

https://www.educationnext.org/education-gap-grows-adolescents-single-parent-families/

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2015/february/teens-from-single-parent-families-leave-school-earlier.html

Single parent homes are an effect of the change in American cultural values and there are significant consequences for subsequent generations.  It is not an excuse for subsequent generations, but in general they do have to work harder to catch up to their two parent home counterparts.

[Day Man]

35 minutes ago, Smokin said:

How about these:

thanks (sincerely)...I don't disagree (generally speaking) that 2 parents >1.

can you specify what you're referring to when you say "what is wrong with america?" crime? unemployment? poverty level? 

 

[filthy_liar]

6 hours ago, FourFans said:

I broke rule number one about arguing on the internet.  

As we've resorted to childish taunts, I'm clearly hurting sensitive feelings.

I'll stop de-railing the woke thread. 

Back to the discussion of how to have community without religion.  Good luck with that.

You didn't break any rules about arguing on the internet.  There aren't any.  I agree with a lot of your posts, but you've been had, as has most every human.  There are also no rules in politics.  Not a single politician gives a shit about you.  The sooner you realize that, the better off you are.  Republicans don't give a shit about you.  Independents don't give a shit about you or HeloDude.  Democrats don't give a shit about Prozac or nsplayer.  They care about two things:  wealth and power.  Aristotle supposedly figured this out a while back, I'm not sure why we're still stumped by this.

[filthy_liar]

36 minutes ago, Day Man said:

can you specify what you're referring to when you say "what is wrong with america?" crime? unemployment? poverty level?

I can.  People treat each other horribly.  Do you observe humans in day to day interactions?  Traffic, grocery store, etc.?  It's horrible.  People don't value humanity anymore in our society.  Screens have taken over that.  By screens I'm including social media.  They don't value "I did this to the best of my ability and this is the result."  They don't give a shit about that.  If they slung a hamburger together and got half your order correct that's a win and their boss thinks the same.  And that's the service industry.  I mean if you're talking about the distribution industry (supply chain), that's not any better.  America is circling the drain.  This country reminds me more and more of failed states or developing states that can't seem to get things right.  I first noticed this when I returned from Germany in 2014.  Do you really need someone to spell out what is wrong with America?  I didn't delve into the leftist shit - I'm just trying to cover the basic fabric of what use to be America.