Guest Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1997/06/09/military-hopes-to-curb-exodus-of-discontent-pilots/267c1c1f-c684-44e4-9c91-281fc9bbbf47/?utm_term=.d93fdfba1879 Interesting. First "Phoenix" program worth considering, if it comes to fruition. Though if the Air Force actually pays airlines not to hire younger guys, that will create a shitstorm like no other. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookieRookie Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Do you have any details of the recent meeting? That article is from 1997. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Do you have any details of the recent meeting? That article is from 1997.Doh! APC passing it off as new news. Guess I should work on my reading comprehension. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookieRookie Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) Interesting enough there still is the MilPDS code for dudes that enrolled in Phoenix aviator back in the day. Edit: A quick Google search says the meeting is on Thursday May 18. Edited May 16, 2017 by LookieRookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 20 minutes ago, gearpig said: From the article: Though 20 years old, the idea of paying the airlines to not hire you may be easier than paying you to stay in. Sounds like a textbook class action. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimuth Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Heard the airlines didn't send their CEO's and sent "reps" instead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Let's hope soSent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 6 hours ago, gearpig said: Today was the day, it seems. Any leaks? http://www.janes.com/article/70524/pilot-shortage-concerns-us-air-force-bomber-chief I heard that the airlines are upset about USERRA and dudes getting hired and then taking years of mil leave. Apparently, the airlines were planning on bringing this up and might play ball if the AF can get changes to USERRA made. Nothing about this meeting will be in OUR best interest. I would bet that everything discussed was about how to help the AF and the airlines. Thus how to screw over pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Spartacus said: Apparently, the airlines were planning on bringing this up and might play ball if the AF can get changes to USERRA made. Although I am not in the know, I cannot imagine this being a possibility. USERRA is "law of the land", and will take an act of Congress to make significant changes. The AF is only one of seven uniformed services: have they coordinated with the other six? The airline industry isn't the only employer of military personnel. They don't get to decided the rules unilaterally. I couldn't get a couple of safety-related 847's approved through the bureaucracy my last 2 years in the AF. How will they manage to change USERRA? Edited May 19, 2017 by HuggyU2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatedont Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) The AF needs to get their affairs in order before running over to the airlines to complain about a shortage. When I looked at some slides from AFPC its not just pilots leaving. Aircrew in general and maintainers are punching out too. I'm talking Navy T-34 Mentor style of getting out... Edited May 19, 2017 by hatedont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprkt69 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said: Although I am not in the know, I cannot imagine this being a possibility. USERRA is "law of the land", and will take an act of Congress to make significant changes. The AF is only one of seven uniformed services: have they coordinated with the other six? The airline industry isn't the only employer of military personnel. They don't get to decided the rules unilaterally. I couldn't get a couple of safety-related 847's approved through the bureaucracy my last 2 years in the AF. How will they manage to change USERRA? Probably money, like LOTS of it and broken promises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe1234 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 You can't change USERRA, but you can change who even gets orders in the first place. There's nothing stopping the Air Force from, say, denying long term orders to a name that appears on a legacy seniority list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 You can't change USERRA, but you can change who even gets orders in the first place. There's nothing stopping the Air Force from, say, denying long term orders to a name that appears on a legacy seniority list.The problem with the AF vs the Airlines is there is ZERO benefit to either organization to help the other. One is going to lose out and the Air Force is playing with a losing hand...Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA187 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 11 hours ago, hatedont said: I'm talking Navy T-34 Mentor style of getting out... I flew the T-34C and this reference is lost on me...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseAg03 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I think he's talking about the boldface that was along the lines of "Canopy - Open, Toward Trailing Edge - Jump." I never flew it, but heard about their bailout boldface from squadron bros.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA187 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, MooseAg03 said: I think he's talking about the boldface that was along the lines of "Canopy - Open, Toward Trailing Edge - Jump." I never flew it, but heard about their bailout boldface from squadron bros. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Forgive me - I'm a Marine, perhaps a little more dense than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 hours ago, joe1234 said: You can't change USERRA, but you can change who even gets orders in the first place. There's nothing stopping the Air Force from, say, denying long term orders to a name that appears on a legacy seniority list. Except discrimination laws... This entire meeting baffles my mind. I don't see how either side can legally influence the other to do anything. If the Air Force leaders somehow convince the airlines to stop military hiring, that is illegal discrimination. If the Air Force stops giving long term orders to guard/reserve guys employed by the airlines, that is also discrimination. The only thing is the airlines could do is hire a representative number of military guys to better represent the total applicant pool. But even that would only slow the hiring of military pilots temporarily. The one thing this does accomplish is prove to guys looking to get out that big Air Force is not looking out for them and instead is actively trying to remove post-military employment opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 14 hours ago, Spartacus said: I heard that the airlines are upset about USERRA and dudes getting hired and then taking years of mil leave. Apparently, the airlines were planning on bringing this up and might play ball if the AF can get changes to USERRA made. Nothing about this meeting will be in OUR best interest. I would bet that everything discussed was about how to help the AF and the airlines. Thus how to screw over pilots. This line of logic on behalf of the airlines is bull. Compare a list of guys on long term mil-leave to guys on long term medical leave and tell me that the military leave is what is really breaking their system. Last I heard from a Delta pilot, the ratio of long term sick leave to long term mil leave was in the ballpark of 10:1. The airlines may complain about guys 'abusing' USERRA, but United sure didn't seem too heartbroken about using bankruptcy court to kill fixed pensions they should still be paying out today. If the shoe were on the other foot, the company would use every power the law gave them to maximize their profit. Why is it somehow wrong when employees do the same thing? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooter Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Duck said: The problem with the AF vs the Airlines is there is ZERO benefit to either organization to help the other. One is going to lose out and the Air Force is playing with a losing hand... Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums It's like a pilot with an ADSC trying to sort out an exit strategy... my heart smiles that the Air Force has a losing hand... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzdude Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I think he's talking about the boldface that was along the lines of "Canopy - Open, Toward Trailing Edge - Jump." I never flew it, but heard about their bailout boldface from squadron bros.Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHah, boldface in navy land. Crew, canopy, cords, crouch, dive, pullHope the horizontal stab doesn't hit you on the way out.Don't know why that penguin hasn't been pushed off the iceberg yet... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatedont Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, jazzdude said: Hah, boldface in navy land. Crew, canopy, cords, crouch, dive, pull Hope the horizontal stab doesn't hit you on the way out. Don't know why that penguin hasn't been pushed off the iceberg yet... Thanks for writing it out! Edited May 20, 2017 by hatedont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Hah, boldface in navy land. Crew, canopy, cords, crouch, dive, pullHope the horizontal stab doesn't hit you on the way out.Don't know why that penguin hasn't been pushed off the iceberg yet...What happened to the harness? Did it get removed?...cords, harness, crouch...Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzdude Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 What happened to the harness? Did it get removed?...cords, harness, crouch...Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network ForumsI think you're right, I guess that penguin did fall off after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 http://www.airforcehollywood.af.mil/Intro/Article-Display/Article/1187913/goldfein-meets-with-airline-executives/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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