The Next President is...

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

The GOP encouraged Trump to launch NFT trading cards because they want him to alienate himself on his own, so it'll be easier for them to put DeSantis on the ticket. They don't want Trump again but they can't disown him, they got him to own himself.

[brabus]

11 minutes ago, LumberjackAxe said:

The GOP encouraged Trump to launch NFT trading cards because they want him to alienate himself on his own, so it'll be easier for them to put DeSantis on the ticket. They don't want Trump again but they can't disown him, they got him to own himself.

I hope they're that clever, and this move (and moves like it) accomplish that end state.  But the skeptic in me says this wasn't some epic play by the GOP, and at best they just got lucky. The other question is IF Trump is pushed aside and doesn't make it as the nominee, does Trump's hardcore base still get out and vote? I hope they're paying attention enough to know voting is crucial, even if it's for DeSantis and not Trump (for example), and not voting is the epitome of cutting off the nose to spite the face. But again, I'm not so confident in them doing the correct, unemotional thing.

[filthy_liar]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:40 AM, dream big said:

Most Americans want a government that leaves them the hell alone and protects/values American ideals.

I wished I agreed with you, but I don't believe I do.  Maybe in day to day nuanced situations.  But most Americans are urban/suburban dwellers, living by HOA covenants and all kinds of rules.  Doesn't make them evil by any stretch, but it certainly makes them dependent on a gov't mechanism that ensures they are fed if Kroger gets shut down for whatever reason.  Same for fuel, water, electricity, security, etc.  

I work in the city and live in a rural area.  They are basically two different countries.  Where I live nobody sweated it when the shelves were empty and the gas pumps were turned off due to some kind of hacking incident (IIRC).  Again, doesn't make the other 80% bad or wrong (people get amazingly defensive when I talk about urban/suburban vs rural living), but it makes them very much more dependent on the gov't ensuring that essential needs are met when things go bad for whatever reason.

[Biff_T]

21 hours ago, brabus said:

I hope they're that clever, and this move (and moves like it) accomplish that end state.  But the skeptic in me says this wasn't some epic play by the GOP, and at best they just got lucky. The other question is IF Trump is pushed aside and doesn't make it as the nominee, does Trump's hardcore base still get out and vote? I hope they're paying attention enough to know voting is crucial, even if it's for DeSantis and not Trump (for example), and not voting is the epitome of cutting off the nose to spite the face. But again, I'm not so confident in them doing the correct, unemotional thing.

[Lord Ratner]

On 12/16/2022 at 7:31 PM, Prozac said:

Time to admit that DJT was not, is not, and never will be representative of what we stand for as a country.

And Hillary or Joe are?

 

What country have you been living in? I've had to choose between different flavors of shit sandwich since, well, my whole adulthood. A lot of people decided that they'd rather have the narcissistic profiteering liar who seems to at least love the idea of America over the narcissistic profiteering liar who doesn't.

 

I think Romney was the only post-primary candidate since Bush/Gore who was worthy of the seat since I've been voting.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Lord Ratner

[Sim]

Rand Paul is the only choice for the  sanity.

Or a big FU to the establishment and do Trump again. 

[Smokin]

Rand Paul would be a bigger FU to the establishment than Trump and far more effective.  And would be about the only thing that could get our country back on the right track.

[brabus]

I would love for the GOP primaries to come down to deciding between Paul and Desantis - that would actually be different than the usual turd sandwich vs. douche choice.

[ClearedHot]

Double Standard Much?

At least 10 classified documents were found Biden's time as VP found in his private office at his think tank (Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement in Washington).  I am happy to see CNN step up and troll Biden with his own words, I am sure his mouth piece will spin this and make it Trump's fault.  Very interesting that these documents were discovered two months ago, BEFORE the mid-terms, but they just released it now.  I wonder when DOJ will launch a midnight raid and search the White House?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/09/politics/joe-biden-classified-documents-upenn/index.html

 

[slc]

Welcome to the party pal!!!  Holding my breath on that raid.........

[Lawman]

Double Standard Much?
At least 10 classified documents were found Biden's time as VP found in his private office at his think tank (Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement in Washington).  I am happy to see CNN step up and troll Biden with his own words, I am sure his mouth piece will spin this and make it Trump's fault.  Very interesting that these documents were discovered two months ago, BEFORE the mid-terms, but they just released it now.  I wonder when DOJ will launch a midnight raid and search the White House?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/09/politics/joe-biden-classified-documents-upenn/index.html
 

Oh it’s ok… it was in a GSA approved closet… That’s like totally secure storage.


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[FLEA]

4 hours ago, Lawman said:

Oh it’s ok… it was in a GSA approved closet… That’s like totally secure storage.


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Is it made by same people that make the GSA approved home bathroom e-mail servers?

[Lawman]

Is it made by same people that make the GSA approved home bathroom e-mail servers?

I’m just gonna start taking my hard drives home and keeping them in my gun safe… imagine the work I could get done if I didn’t waste time getting them from the big vault we have to keep all our shit in that I’m not collocated with.


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[kaputt]

Standing by for the FBI raid of the Biden household.

[Biff_T]

38 minutes ago, kaputt said:

Standing by for the FBI raid of the Biden household.

Standing by for them to find out that he's really been dead since 2019 and they've been pulling a "Weekend at Bernie's" on us this whole time.  

 

[ClearedHot]

A second set of classified documents has now been found.  The first set reportedly contained TSI/SCI SAR/SAP.  Where is the outrage?  CNN/MSDNC/and the other extensions of the DNC were not even covering it.  I think ABC finally broke down and had to acknowledge.  Odds he has a secret server in the basement of his Delaware beachouse...

[Prozac]

3 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

CNN/MSDNC/and the other extensions of the DNC were not even covering it. 

Huh? All over CNN man. And yeah, hope they get to the bottom of it. Obviously we have a systemic problem with high level officials handling classified. 

[ClearedHot]

38 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Huh? All over CNN man.

Now....earlier it most CERTAINLY was not.  I was sitting with a large group of folks and for the first few hours after it broke all the people around me were actually going between CNN/MSNBC and Foxnews/WSJ.  CNN and MSDNC were still leading (on air and on the website), about the efforts to get Santos to resign.  ABC was the first to crack and NOW of course the others will follow.

38 minutes ago, Prozac said:

And yeah, hope they get to the bottom of it. Obviously we have a systemic problem with high level officials handling classified. 

So you agree, a group of FBI agents should raid Biden's Delaware house tonight to see what might be stashed at that location.

 

Look at the front page of Yahoo RIGHT NOW.  Nothing about the documents but two articles critical of the GOP.

 

 

[HeloDude]

Yeah…CNN is reporting it and is definitely not trying to spin this as Biden is good and Trump is bad.

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Yeah…CNN is reporting it and is definitely not trying to spin this as Biden is good and Trump is bad.

Any of those facts in dispute? 

[FourFans]

50 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Any of those facts in dispute? 

Do any of them actually make a difference?  ANY classified material outside a secured environment, not to mention SCI, should equal severe consequences.  One standard.  The end.

Seriously.  Imagine realizing you had TS/SCI/SAP info in your closet at home.  What would get you first, the police or the heart attack?  

Edited January 12, 2023 by FourFans130

[Guest nsplayr]

1 hour ago, FourFans130 said:

Do any of them actually make a difference?

Yea actually they do, ask your security officer. Intent matters, cooperation or lack-thereof with an investigation matters, and deception matters. Not that you wouldn't get in trouble no matter what, but your intent, cooperation and any deception do matter a great deal in terms of how much trouble you'd find yourself in.

I have seen a dude who accidentally had a SCI document in his bag and had to deal with it. It was discovered by him and he reported it promptly, taking that doc out of an approved storage location was completely unintentional, there were mitigating circumstances, and he never lied about any aspect of the situation and fully cooperated with the security folks investigating it. AFAIK he continued flying and serving relatively unimpaired until I PCS'd and lost track of him.

Obviously the scope is different for high level officials, and there does seem to be a systematic problem that's plagued quite a few folks of all stripes, but again, the things I highlighted do, in fact, matter!

Edited January 12, 2023 by nsplayr

[Prozac]

33 minutes ago, FourFans130 said:Do any of them actually make a difference?  ANY classified material outside a secured environment, not to mention SCI, should equal severe consequences.  One standard.  The end.

Seriously.  Imagine realizing you had TS/SCI/SAP info in your closet at home.  What would get you first, the police or the heart attack?  

Yep.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong: bad. Should be investigated.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong & refusing the subpoena to give it back: objectively worse. Perpetrator should probably go to jail.
 

This isn’t that hard. 

[FourFans]

10 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Yea actually they do, ask your security officer. Intent matters, cooperation or lack-thereof with an investigation matters, and deception matters. Not that you wouldn't get in trouble no matter what, but your intent, cooperation and any deception do matter a great deal in terms of how much trouble you'd find yourself in.

I have seen a dude who accidentally had a SCI document in his bag and had to deal with it. It was discovered by him and he reported it promptly, taking that doc out of an approved storage location was completely unintentional, there were mitigating circumstances, and he never lied about any aspect of the situation and fully cooperated with the security folks investigating it. AFAIK he continued flying and serving relatively unimpaired until I PCS'd and lost track of him.

Obviously the scope is different for high level officials, and there does seem to be a systematic problem that's plagued quite a few folks of all stripes, but again, the things I highlighted do, in fact, matter!

 

10 hours ago, Prozac said:

Yep.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong: bad. Should be investigated.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong & refusing the subpoena to give it back: objectively worse. Perpetrator should probably go to jail.
 

This isn’t that hard. 

So, if we're talking about details and context: if the person involved is, in fact, the top classification authority (even if he has only a vague idea about the rules of classification), and has decided that letters from other heads of state are now unclassified, those documents then become unclassified, correct?

Removing political bias in the analysis: The Trump case is most likely that the sitting president decided to declassify certain documents that he wanted as momentos and then got cockly and arrogant about "his" momentos (oh, the ego on that moron) that he most likely declassified with a verbal order only (which is technically legal, though very poor procedure), while the Biden case is most likely that the non-sitting ex-vice president...or more likely his staff...unwittingly moved and stored classified documents inappropriately.  

Like it or not, the Trump case was, at least in theory, possibly legal.  The Biden case was most definitely not.

Both, in my book, were violations of proper processes (verbal declassification is only supposed to be used as an expedient, and should be followed by the written process) and should be investigated as such, intent or not.

I see no malice in either case.  Lets face it, neither of those old guys was salivating over nuclear secrets or special intel.  It was ignorance and arrogance in both cases. 

If the legal process is completely fair, should there not be an FBI search of Biden's house?  Especially considering that his son may have had direct access to said SAP documents?

But instead of logic and reason, let's go ahead and analyze things with our Red or Blue glasses on instead, because that makes things so much better...

Edited January 12, 2023 by FourFans130

[HeloDude]

9 hours ago, Prozac said:

Yep.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong: bad. Should be investigated.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong & refusing the subpoena to give it back: objectively worse. Perpetrator should probably go to jail.
 

This isn’t that hard. 

So should anything negative happen to Biden?