June 24, 20196 yr On 6/21/2019 at 10:51 AM, Sledge Hammer said: Curious to hear what the thoughts are on that. Especially from the 17 guys.
June 24, 20196 yr Curious to hear what the thoughts are on that. Especially from the 17 guys. 60 degree AOB per our vol 3, 70 max per the -1. They definitely appeared to exceed that, and i’m guessing it was deliberate. It’s hard to tell from the video, but it also looked like they dropped below 300 AGL at the end of the video.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
June 25, 20196 yr 10 hours ago, ihtfp06 said: It’s hard to tell from the video, but it also looked like they dropped below 300 AGL at the end of the video. "Hard to tell"? You're damn right it is hard to tell. And you need to think twice before you throw out something like that and cast aspersions, especially when it is a guess and you don't know it for a FACT.
June 25, 20196 yr Altitudes look fine. Does look like they overbanked, but not sure if they misjudged the turn and got spooked by the mountain, or if they caught a gust that pushed them past 60 AOB. No solid horizon to definitely say how far they banked, but it'll show in the MFOQA data, so I guess we'll see if that's really non-punitive data.
June 25, 20196 yr These fucks need to watch the Alaska crash video, they aren’t max performing anything, they are playing Russian roulette. If I was their CC I’d gather all the facts and if shown the pictures are correct, I’d Q3, ground and PCS the crew to a radar station in the arctic. Edited June 25, 20196 yr by matmacwc
June 25, 20196 yr It looks like they screwed up the turn and got closer to the ridge than planned. We don't necessarily have the thrust or energy to pop over a ridge if the turn goes bad, so that leaves bank.The jet keeps flying, and if they did overbank, they brought it back pretty quickly. Better to overbank than be a smoking hole in the side of a mountain. Keep positive g and everything stays where it's supposed to on the back.60 degrees of bank at 300AGL is routine in the -17. I don't see a straight line correlation to the Alaska crash, unless the overbank was intentionally planned/flown and the crew was hotdogging for the camera. Funny how the opinion of this event (OMG overbank Q3 the crew and ground them) is so different than the KC-46 landing halfway down the runway way off centerline (eh just a debrief item, stabilized approach is for dummies).
June 25, 20196 yr The chances the camera was there during the sequence of events you explained makes it iffy. For those who don’t know, open source. https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/c-17-crash-report-exposes-cracks-in-usaf-safety-cult-351032/
June 25, 20196 yr 4 hours ago, jazzdude said: Funny how the opinion of this event (OMG overbank Q3 the crew and ground them) is so different than the KC-46 landing halfway down the runway way off centerline (eh just a debrief item, stabilized approach is for dummies). It’s interesting how we all tend to fill in the information gaps with our own biases and experience. It’s impressive to see the video, but it’s still insufficient data to make a case either way.
June 25, 20196 yr 4 hours ago, matmacwc said: The chances the camera was there during the sequence of events you explained makes it iffy. For those who don’t know, open source. https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/c-17-crash-report-exposes-cracks-in-usaf-safety-cult-351032/ Star Wars canyon is a popular spot for photogs to hike up and sit nearly every day of the week, oftentimes with only the hope of seeing something fly thru. Don’t underestimate the power of the aviation fanboy.
June 25, 20196 yr Well we all (AMC) got a new FCIF on aircrew discipline and adherence to standards that mentions both low levels and stabilized approach criteria. So...move along.Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app
June 25, 20196 yr This aircraft is clean wing and going over 300 knots (usually 310 ground planned) entering the low level. There’s not much to compare this to Elmendorf. All I’ve heard the past year and a half is how we need to get out of the strat airlift mindset, be more tactical, full spectrum readiness, blah blah blah. When you ask guys to train to that, this is going to happen. In the ACC world we debrief safety of flight and training rule violations after every training sortie. Do we go asking for people’s wings every time they fess up to a violation? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
June 25, 20196 yr I see two intentionally stalled C-17s in my comparison, didn’t think it was that hard.
June 26, 20196 yr 9 hours ago, torqued said: It’s interesting how we all tend to fill in the information gaps with our own biases and experience. It’s impressive to see the video, but it’s still insufficient data to make a case either way. Exactly... plus we all make fun of Farmer Bob under the MOA who calls in "the aircraft flew over my house at 50 feet!" and GPS trail reveals you were 2500' AGL and climbing 5 miles away. Would need radar / tapes / something other than YouTube to see if it was truly stalled.
June 26, 20196 yr Well we all (AMC) got a new FCIF on aircrew discipline and adherence to standards that mentions both low levels and stabilized approach criteria. So...move along.Oh good they rolled the KC-46 approach to Le Bourget and the C-17 all into one. Perfect.
June 26, 20196 yr . . . if you wonder why the Air Force doesn't have a functional ASAP program, just read the reactions in this thread.
June 26, 20196 yr 8 hours ago, Scooter14 said:Oh good they rolled the KC-46 approach to Le Bourget and the C-17 all into one. Perfect. Stand by for “back to basics” SII. It’s been at least 5 years since management last reminded us to do our fucking jobs.
June 26, 20196 yr I see two intentionally stalled C-17s in my comparison, didn’t think it was that hard.So every time you roll your Viper to 85 degrees of bank, it’s stalled? I’ve only ever been to 90 in the C-17 in the sim, we got no stall indications because we were clean and fast, just like the jet in the video. Not sure where you’re making the assumption they stalled the jet...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
June 26, 20196 yr Stalling still has nothing to do with AOB or airspeed right? I went to public school.
June 27, 20196 yr True, a wing can stall at any airspeed or attitude. I also am a public school product and just a dumb pilot.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
June 27, 20196 yr . . . if you wonder why the Air Force doesn't have a functional ASAP program, just read the reactions in this thread. I don’t see what you are getting at. As an aside, our safety officer is briefing the Le Bourget ASAP tomorrow, so there’s that.
June 27, 20196 yr Stand by for “back to basics” SII. It’s been at least 5 years since management last reminded us to do our ing jobs. Seems like just yesterday...Sent from my iPad using Baseops Network mobile app
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