Trends in Air to Air Combat

[di1630]

They’ve openly said the B-21 is the first 6th gen aircraft…I just assumed the CCA capes were a given.

The F-35 will be the last traditional fighter we produce.


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[Clark Griswold]

The F-35 will be the last traditional fighter we produce.

No inside knowledge but seems likely it with tech and operational trends known in the open world
I think there’s still a place for a traditionally sized fighter with pilot/crew but to be relevant it probably would need to be built specifically to always or almost always operate with CCAs


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[di1630]

No inside knowledge but seems likely it with tech and operational trends known in the open world
I think there’s still a place for a traditionally sized fighter with pilot/crew but to be relevant it probably would need to be built specifically to always or almost always operate with CCAs


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F-35s will be updated for decades so fighters aren’t going away, I’d just expect improved cca’s and a continued shift away from “our manned fighters vs their manned fighters” mentality.



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[Clark Griswold]

F-35s will be updated for decades so fighters aren’t going away, I’d just expect improved cca’s and a continued shift away from “our manned fighters vs their manned fighters” mentality.



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Concur
Just for the factor of expense the traditional sized fighter will continue
I wonder what the right mix will be throughout the next generation strike package
Large to medium and Manned, loyal wingmen and autonomous vehicles all linked to enablers and supporting assets.
My guess is 50/50 to 60/40 sounds right manned to unmanned. Large to medium probably 1 to 4.


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[Clark Griswold]

4.5 / 4+ news

https://www.twz.com/air/f-15ex-nails-pentagon-test-campaign-survivability-concerns-remain

 

[Sua Sponte]

On 10/29/2024 at 10:59 AM, di1630 said:

 

F-35s will be updated for decades so fighters aren’t going away, I’d just expect improved cca’s and a continued shift away from “our manned fighters vs their manned fighters” mentality.



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Nah, Elon said it's junk and drones are the way to go.

[Clark Griswold]

Nah, Elon said it's junk and drones are the way to go.

Just a guess but as he is read in I think his opinions will shift a bit
Our enemies still fly and are planning to fly manned aircraft well into the next 20+ years, that says something even a genius like him can hear


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[Sua Sponte]

5 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Just a guess but as he is read in I think his opinions will shift a bit
Our enemies still fly and are planning to fly manned aircraft well into the next 20+ years, that says something even a genius like him can hear


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His weaponized autism gets the best of him. He’s still the guy who’s selling beta full-self driving software on Teslas after years of it being in beta. 

[Clark Griswold]

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202411/1322762.shtml?id=11

Two seater 5th gen

[FourFans]

On 2/19/2025 at 12:42 PM, Clark Griswold said:

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202411/1322762.shtml?id=11

Two seater 5th gen

With canards.  So it's a fighter with training wheels AND a backseat driver...

[Clark Griswold]

20 minutes ago, FourFans said:

With canards.  So it's a fighter with training wheels AND a backseat driver...

Fighter / Interceptor plus CCA C2 platform methinks.

[ClearedHot]

 

[fire4effect]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

 

18 month developmental timeline is impressive.

[ClearedHot]

2 hours ago, fire4effect said:

18 month developmental timeline is impressive.

It is and that is aided by additive manufacturing which scares the crap out the OEMs.

Hopefully the trend continues and we can distribute the manufacturing process to smaller companies that can 3D print key components and drive down costs while speeding acquisition.

[disgruntledemployee]

9 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

It is and that is aided by additive manufacturing which scares the crap out the OEMs.

Hopefully the trend continues and we can distribute the manufacturing process to smaller companies that can 3D print key components and drive down costs while speeding acquisition.

The intricate stuff they can make with additive process is amazing, that and the advances in materials makes this a fascinating field.  Anyone got a teen looking into STEM, point em this way for a looksie.

[ClearedHot]

7 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said:

The intricate stuff they can make with additive process is amazing, that and the advances in materials makes this a fascinating field.  Anyone got a teen looking into STEM, point em this way for a looksie.

HP is a leader in building some of these high end printers...printing in a type of vinyl that uses one of the most common manufacturing materials in the world.  Other companies like Beehive are 3d printing jet engines out of metal powder.  As you correctly point out, STEM and AI are the path to wealth for any young people who want to make a difference.

[fire4effect]

6 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

HP is a leader in building some of these high end printers...printing in a type of vinyl that uses one of the most common manufacturing materials in the world.  Other companies like Beehive are 3d printing jet engines out of metal powder.  As you correctly point out, STEM and AI are the path to wealth for any young people who want to make a difference.

Definitely the wave of the future. Tooling fixtures for bending say tubing or shaping other components are pretty straightforward. If we're talking blades in an engine repeatability of mechanical properties is the difficulty. 3D printed blade sitting next to a traditional blade may appear identical, but grain structure is completely different. Even repeatability internally from one 3d blade to the next may be inconsistent. So, tell your young people to get on with the program and solve these problems.🫡 Sounds like Beehive has a workable solution for things like missiles.

[ClearedHot]

10 hours ago, fire4effect said:

Definitely the wave of the future. Tooling fixtures for bending say tubing or shaping other components are pretty straightforward. If we're talking blades in an engine repeatability of mechanical properties is the difficulty. 3D printed blade sitting next to a traditional blade may appear identical, but grain structure is completely different. Even repeatability internally from one 3d blade to the next may be inconsistent. So, tell your young people to get on with the program and solve these problems.🫡 Sounds like Beehive has a workable solution for things like missiles.

I don't work for Beehive but have visited their facility a few times.  At AFA they rolled out their 100LBN thrust engine which is a game changer.  If you know anything about affordable munitions space the brewing fight with China has spawned several program to mass produce cruise missiles and other munitions at a cost 1//10th to 1/20th of legacy munitions like Tomahawk, JASSM and JASSM-ER.  The opening 72 hours of a fight with China are likely to consume nearly every weapon in stock (50,000 units), so the services have launched an effort to greatly increase quantities at a much lower price point.  Companies Like Anduril are trying to mass produce Barracuda for less than $200K.  Believe it or not the high cost component in these systems is the engine and current providers charge around $120K per unit.  Beehive is driving to get that cost (en masse), down to $25K.

[Clark Griswold]

Felon showing off the goods

https://www.twz.com/air/su-57-felon-brandishes-its-loaded-weapons-bays-for-the-first-time


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[Sua Sponte]

Is this the jet that had drywall screws in the wings?

[Clark Griswold]

Is this the jet that had drywall screws in the wings?

Yeah, it is technically the T-50 not the actual Su-57 which presumably is what Algeria will receive next year
The prototype T-50s appear to not have the build quality the Su-57 one would expect a 5th gen to have, I guess Lowe’s is a sub for the T-50



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