MKopack Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 In late 1966, a new threat was appearing to our Airmen serving in Vietnam with the North's introduction of the then state-of-the-art Soviet MiG-21 Fishbed. The MiG's had used slash and run attacks to which they were well suited, to avoid the air-to-air armed Phantom fighters and to press their attacks against the heavily bomb-laden F-105's. They scored their first kill in October of 1966 and in December had shot down two attacking F-105 Thunderchiefs. More importantly though, the small number of MiG's, being able to carefully pick their battles, and operating from the safety of airfields that the US military was not allowed to attack, caused 20% of all strike sorties to jettison their weapons prior to attacking their targets. But what if a plan could be put into place to fool the North Vietnamese into attacking a strike force of Thunderchiefs, that turned out not to be heavy strike aircraft, but air-to-air armed Phantoms - ready and waiting? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afnav Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The show 'Dogfights' has an episode on this operation. Very entertaining... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Thanks Mike, that's a great picture and it really says all that needs to be said about the foundation of leadership. The O-6 leading and the O-1s thru O-4s who are looking on with rapt attention and ready to follow him anywhere and do absolutely anything he said. Can you imagine a Chief walking in on that scene and making some stupid fucking comment about mustaches or sleeves or ball caps? This picture should be enlarged and hung up in every MPC in the world, for no other reason than to shame the leaders into leading when and where it counts. Maybe this picture should be attached to every stupid policy posted on bulletin board in the AOR. Maybe it should also be the response to every stupid email that comes out downrange. It should definitely get pinned to the CSAF's office door. He was a fucking stud. 'Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKopack Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 "The happiest part was that they had chosen to tangle with us. That is what we wanted. We outflew, outshot, and outfought them. Col. Robin Olds" Can't beat a next day news report either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaman Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 "They were aggressive, we tangled, they lost.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CAVEMAN Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Mkopack, I was going to ask you for a copy of the picture just as I was reading Rainmain's comments. Do you have proprietary rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAMInated Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Once green... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoleIt Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Now now...I am sure Col Old's turned around right after this picture was taken and told the LT to put his sleeves down before they lost the war due to poor attention to detail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKopack Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Mkopack, I was going to ask you for a copy of the picture just as I was reading Rainmain's comments. Do you have proprietary rights? Wish I did, I'd "grabbed" the photo from a blog at http://warandgame.co...lds/oldsseated/ some time ago. I'll drop him a line and see if we can find out where the photo came from. Edit - Getting closer. The photo was used in "American military aviation: the indispensable arm" By Charles Joseph Gross, where it is credited to "U.S. Air Force photo". Edited January 3, 2012 by MKopack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiFlyer Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Well, maybe things haven't changed so much after all. You'll notice the mustache was gone a few days later when he had to go to Saigon and meet the Generals on the 7th AF staff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Know the threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQZip01 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Wish I did, I'd "grabbed" the photo from a blog at http://warandgame.co...lds/oldsseated/ some time ago. I'll drop him a line and see if we can find out where the photo came from. Edit - Getting closer. The photo was used in "American military aviation: the indispensable arm" By Charles Joseph Gross, where it is credited to "U.S. Air Force photo". US Air Force photos are officially in the public domain. You can use them however you want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Well, maybe things haven't changed so much after all. You'll notice the mustache was gone a few days later when he had to go to Saigon and meet the Generals on the 7th AF staff! While the article states otherwise, I am pretty sure that was an earlier photo. As far as I can remember, Olds kept his mustache until he returned to the States. The one time I met Olds, I asked what ever happened to it; and he told me that when he reported to the CSAF the latter pointed at it and told him to get rid of it... Cheers! M2 p.s. Looks like Olds' book (pg 342) and Wikipedia confirm the story... Olds was known for the extravagantly waxed (and decidedly non-regulation) handlebar moustache he sported in Vietnam. It was a common superstition among airmen to grow a "bulletproof mustache," but Olds also used his as "a gesture of defiance. The kids on base loved it. Most everybody grew a mustache." Returning home, however, marked the end of this flamboyance. When he reported to his first interview with Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. McConnell, McConnell walked up to him, stuck a finger under his nose and said, "Take it off." Olds replied, "Yes, sir." Olds was not upset with the order, recalling: To tell the truth, I wasn't all that fond of the damned thing by then, but it had become a symbol for the men of the 8th Wing. I knew McConnell understood. During his visits to Ubon over the past year he had never referred to my breach of military standards, just seemed rather amused at the variety of 'staches sported by many of the troops. (It) was the most direct order I had received in twenty-four years of service! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CAVEMAN Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) While the article states otherwise, I am pretty sure that was an earlier photo. As far as I can remember, Olds kept his mustache until he returned to the States. The one time I met Olds, I asked what ever happened to it; and he told me that when he reported to the CSAF the latter pointed at it and told him to get rid of it... Cheers! M2 p.s. Looks like Olds' book (pg 342) and Wikipedia confirm the story... But did you catch the final line in that excerpt? As Colonel with 24yrs of service, "(It) was the most direct order I had received in twenty-four years of service! Yeap; the train wreck started a while back. According to the Smithsonian, the picture seems to be released with no known copyright restriction. Edited January 4, 2012 by CAVEMAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getzen2 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 But did you catch the final line in that excerpt? As Colonel with 24yrs of service, "(It) was the most direct order I had received in twenty-four years of service! Yeap; the train wreck started a while back. According to the Smithsonian, the picture seems to be released with no known copyright restriction. But I like the part right before that, "During his visits to Ubon over the past year he had never referred to my breach of military standards, just seemed rather amused at the variety of 'staches sported by many of the troops." Let them act amuck when they are laying it all out when it hurts nothing and it adds to getting shit done. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almansur Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Some big "hero-shots" at Flickr: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fud Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The one time I met Olds I would have killed to meet that man. I bet that was an experience. As to his mustache, it was grown after Bolo, and kept until he was told to "remove it" by the CSAF as I recall from his recent autobiography. There is a picture upon his return from Vietnam (in the middle of the book) where he is in his service dress briefing, and he was still sporting the stache. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backseatdriver Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Davies Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) What is it about moustaches that makes them verboten (edit: in the USAF)? Edited January 5, 2012 by Steve Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Because that's what the reg says. And the reg is God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 What is it about moustaches that makes them verboten (edit: in the USAF)? Apparantly they cause morale to increase and other unwanted effects... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If I recall (someone feel free to correct me, Im going back to AFJROTC back in high school on this), the origin of having a mustache regulation dates back to WW1. The reasoning behind it was to enable the user to get a proper seal on a gas mask, I assume it has just evolved from that. Sorry if that doesn't answer your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If I recall (someone feel free to correct me, Im going back to AFJROTC back in high school on this), the origin of having a mustache regulation dates back to WW1. The reasoning behind it was to enable the user to get a proper seal on a gas mask, I assume it has just evolved from that. Sorry if that doesn't answer your question. Oddly, the RAF has a rarely enforced reg on the books that prohibits officers from shaving their mustaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceman Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 What is it about moustaches that makes them verboten (edit: in the USAF)? Well they're not toally banned, just big manly staches are illegal. The reason is because not everyone has the ability to cultivate such an impressive display of testosterone, so it's not fair. On the other hand, the 95 percentile service member (gender immaterial) can manage a shitty Mexican Hitler Stache, so that is all that's allowed. It's called Equal Opportunity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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