What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Champ Kind]

41 minutes ago, guineapigfury said:

I'm a former chief of mobility.  Putting the UDM role with the CSS is insane.  Units with a significant number of taskings need someone doing that job as their primary duty.  We ended up hiring a civilian and it made life much easier.

Fuck it...  Are you really telling me people aren't going to get out the door because there isn't someone spending their primary duty loading names into a 1970s system?  People will still be on the iron or the rotators on-time.  As for tracking MR stuff, that can easily be soaked up by the training shop.

[guineapigfury]

They'll go out the door, but without someone working full time they won't have the proper training, equipment or sometimes even correct destination on their plane tickets.  If support agencies (supply shop, CATM, LRS, etc) did their job it wouldn't be this way.  I had to move heaven and earth just to get my dudes OCPs, locks that actually fit the firearms case, small arms training (tacked it onto a training TDY), and convince LRS not to send my dudes to the wrong country just because someone on another continent jacked up a spreadsheet and couldn't be bothered to fix it.  I was on shift-work and frequently came in hours early or stayed hours late to have a face to face meeting with someone or their boss to resolve something that should have been fixable with an email.  We were the drone squadron at a bomber base, so that didn't help.  My blood pressure is going up just thinking about it.  Hopefully it's different for other communities.

[WTFAF]

Hopefully it's different for other communities.

I was able to get myself to/from the AOR multiple times despite the system (in & out-processing, rotator schedule, etc) holding me back. More efficiently as well, but then again I was a singleton. Dealing with larger units takes a little more coordination. Problem is the one-size fits all, lowest common denominator mentality has made the mobility job a bitch.

It doesn't have to be so hard.

[Champ Kind]

Sorry to get your blood pressure up man, but the short story fix to that is your Sq CC, group CC, and probably wing CV having some semblance of balls and telling the MSG or LRG CC (whatever your setup is) to unfornicate their processes to make deployments happen. I know... That's asking for a lot these days especially when dealing with BPZers just looking to not rock the boat and move on to the next thing.

[guineapigfury]

Not a problem, it was a couple of years ago.  I got some successful SQ/CC involvement with the ticket issue, but I was too hard-headed to ask for help on the other stuff.

[abmwaldo]

Sorry to get your blood pressure up man, but the short story fix to that is your Sq CC, group CC, and probably wing CV having some semblance of balls and telling the MSG or LRG CC (whatever your setup is) to unfornicate their processes to make deployments happen. I know... That's asking for a lot these days especially when dealing with BPZers just looking to not rock the boat and move on to the next thing.

That works until you're an ACC tenant unit on an AFMC base and the ABW/CC is more concerned with the union than military necessity. If you've ever tried to deploy 260+ folks at one time UDM is truly a full time job.

[di1630]

$12B could have bought a few more F-22s I think.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/02/politics/us-air-force-f-15-upgrades/index.html

[Muscle2002]

$12B could have bought a few more F-22s I think.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/02/politics/us-air-force-f-15-upgrades/index.html

The article doesn't mention the fact that the upgrades are for both C-models and E-models as they move to a common OFP. So while the author focuses on air-to-air, there are key capabilities coming with the improved hardware and software for the air-to-ground role.

[R-Dub]

1 hour ago, di1630 said:

$12B could have bought a few more F-22s I think.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/02/politics/us-air-force-f-15-upgrades/index.html

You're correct in your assessment of only a few jets.  

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2010/RAND_MG797.pdf

1 hour ago, Muscle2002 said:

The article doesn't mention the fact that the upgrades are for both C-models and E-models as they move to a common OFP. So while the author focuses on air-to-air, there are key capabilities coming with the improved hardware and software for the air-to-ground role.

Exactly right.  The 2010 RAND analysis estimated $20B (FY08) to get 75 F-22s.  This already ignores the current $1.2B software development and other developmental efforts currently on-going with the aircraft.  Not sure where CNN gets $12B for the F-15 efforts (the last I was aware was $10B was approved in FY15 for EPAWSS, common OFP, SLEP, and others), but you get ~450 aircraft (F-15C/D/E) good through 2048.  

 

I personally agreed with this decision when it came out due to the cost/benefit and return for the US tax payer, IMHBAO.

 

Edit: I don't spell so good...

Edited September 2, 2016 by R-Dub

[Prosuper]

On 8/21/2016 at 11:27 PM, abmwaldo said:

That works until you're an ACC tenant unit on an AFMC base and the ABW/CC is more concerned with the union than military necessity. If you've ever tried to deploy 260+ folks at one time UDM is truly a full time job.

At least on the mx side of your wing they had a shop just to make sure everybody had their fecal matter all together and we just got on the E-3 to rotate or drove down to KOKC to get a flight to Baltimore to catch the rotater. What screwed everything up was bringing in a commercial jet to Ktik and deal with a ATOC that are straight reservists that are out of practice which turned everything into an CF. Coming home dealing with the customs prick (ex ABM'r) at KTIK meant a 5 hour stay on base before you can go home. Remember pleading with a new ACC to stop at Bangor to clear customs but pressed home and stayed on the jet for 2 hours in the bird cage. 

[Sprkt69]

Anyone else read this? Replace the Navy speak with AF speak, and it represents the fighter community well.

https://fightersweep.com/6171/is-naval-aviation-culture-dead/

[pcola]

Awesome that it was written by a former SECNAV

[Blue]

All of the talk of increasing 11F production, just to make sure that 11F staff billets are filled, reminded me of this blog post from a couple years ago.  I feel like the whole damn defense apparatus of the country is somewhere between "Bloat" and full-on "Failure/Implosion."

https://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec10/lifecycle-bureaucracy12-10.html

"Tip of the spear" military forces and readiness are left twisting in the wind while the thousands of senior officers in the Pentagon and Services jostle for promotions. At the point of implosion, there are more captains, colonels and generals than actual war-fighters. (There are plenty of barbers, cooks, waiters and assistants, though, to serve the senior officers.)

Benefits for the survivors are left basically untouched while new hires are fired to preserve the budget for those with seniority.

At some point, the mission of the bureaucracy is completely lost, and the citizens' patience with institutional incompetence and self-aggrandizement finally runs out.

[ATIS]

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 0:25 AM, pcola said:

Awesome that it was written by a former SECNAV

Dr. Lehman was the 65th Secretary of the Navy and a member of the 9/11 Commission.

More importantly than SECNAV...Dr. Lehman was a Reserve A-6 Intruder B/N (Bombardier/Navigator) and continued to fly out of NAS Oceana even during his days as SECNAV. 

He was a little before my time...but from what I heard around the squadron spaces, he was popular...had his issues and distractions, but was a pretty effective SECNAV during one of the largest peacetime build ups of our nations military (the 80's).   

Here is a little taste of what I mean:

Posted by aaron on February 19, 2008

Got this kickass story from Gunner
John Lehman was the US Secretary of the Navy from 1981 to 1987. He was also in a rather unique position being an active Navy Reserve flier as a Bombadier-Navigator on the A-6 Intruder. In the rank of Commander, he certainly was nowhere near the highest ranking officer where ever he went. However, as Secretary of the Navy he established Naval policy, sat at the very top of the Navy chain-of-command and every Admiral in the Navy answered to him. Never the less, when we put on the Navy uniform, he was just another Commander.

 Lehman typically would do his required Navy Reserve training at NAS Oceana, not far from his Secretary’s offices in Washington DC. He enjoyed talking with the guys in the back bar at the club. On one such night the Base CO, Dynamite, walked in, spotted Lehman and walked over to apologize along the lines of "Mr. Secretary, I’m sorry, my staff didn't tell me you were aboard the station." Lehman said "That's OK Skipper, I'm just here as a weekend warrior bagging some flight time." Cramer replied, "OK Commander, then get a f*cking haircut and be in my office at 0800!"

 Lehman immediately walked across the street to the BOQ barbershop!

 

[glitchfire]

*actively ignoring all of this as i apply for OTS*

[pawnman]

16 hours ago, glitchfire said:

*actively ignoring all of this as i apply for OTS*

Maybe it will all be sorted out by the time you get to the operational Air Force.

[Duck]

Maybe it will all be sorted out by the time you get to the operational Air Force.

Without sounding melodramatic, it can only get better.


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[brickhistory]

2 hours ago, Duck said:

Without sounding melodramatic, it can only get better.

 

You're new here, aren't you...?    : -)

 

 

It can, most likely will, get worse.  The U.S. guv'mint is broke and deeply in debt.  DoD, like many times in the past here, and like the MODs of allies/foreigners, is seen as a easy way to cut spending without pissing off a lot of voters.

Then when we are in bad shape, something in the world goes pear-shaped and those who hung on will get thrown into a fight we aren't ready for and can't sustain at first.

Those who are bailing need to ensure they are free and clear of the IRR as well 'cuz that option is still on the books.

Just sayin' if they'll stop-loss without a national emergency which they've done, imagine what a real threat will mean.

[guineapigfury]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't officers subject to recall until age 60?  I'd estimate that the membership of this forum is greater than 90% commissioned.  Sure they'll call back IRR dudes first, but short of achieving eligibility to draw Social Security there aren't many techniques for getting well clear.  You could do something that prevented you from getting/keeping a clearance or destroy your health, but for most on these boards the juice probably isn't worth the squeeze.

[ARAMP1]

5 hours ago, guineapigfury said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't officers subject to recall until age 60?  I'd estimate that the membership of this forum is greater than 90% commissioned.  Sure they'll call back IRR dudes first, but short of achieving eligibility to draw Social Security there aren't many techniques for getting well clear.  You could do something that prevented you from getting/keeping a clearance or destroy your health, but for most on these boards the juice probably isn't worth the squeeze.

Don't know if that's true or not, but we'd be in serious trouble to have to recall a bunch of 58-59 year olds that separated two decades prior as majors.   

[pawnman]

8 hours ago, ARAMP1 said:

Don't know if that's true or not, but we'd be in serious trouble to have to recall a bunch of 58-59 year olds that separated two decades prior as majors.   

I'll give you three guesses as to how well I would perform in requal if you called me back a decade after my retirement date.

[di1630]

Anyone think they will try to retain via bonus guys jumping ship at 20? Has it been done in the past?

I might be willing to stay a few more years to keep flying an FTU gig for some extra cash. Thoughts?


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[fire4effect]

4 hours ago, pawnman said:

I'll give you three guesses as to how well I would perform in requal if you called me back a decade after my retirement date.

based on what I've seen over the years you'd get stuck in some sh!t detail out of spite nowhere near any job you would want.....so  the next guy they recalled would play ball.....because that is how they roll no matter what branch you're in

[ThreeHoler]

Anyone think they will try to retain via bonus guys jumping ship at 20? Has it been done in the past?

I might be willing to stay a few more years to keep flying an FTU gig for some extra cash. Thoughts?


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Sometime in the 90's there was a bonus to 25 years of aviation service. Or something like that.


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[Stitch]

On 9/11/2016 at 10:37 AM, fire4effect said:

based on what I've seen over the years you'd get stuck in some sh!t detail out of spite nowhere near any job you would want.....so  the next guy they recalled would play ball.....because that is how they roll no matter what branch you're in

Yup, Holloman Services Sq needs a basketball control officer at the youth center!  Oh, then there's OIC of Short Arm Inspection Section at Diego.... I'm sure the list goes on and on....