Herk Driver Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Agree with pbar. I know FE's who've used the port to smoke out of, but other than the ANG (maybe reserve?) Herc guys that do Antarctica stuff I don't know that anyone would even know where to start with cel nav. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I know a few guys on AD that still know how to shoot cel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Prosuper said: I'm reading about an USMC General telling the troops to turn off the cell phones and get off the grid. Later on they talk about the Navy turning off the GPS and doing celestial navigation.My question is when was the last time the USAF navigator put a sextant through the port to shoot stars? If we ever get into a WW3 type shooting war one would think our GPS satellites would be a priority target as much as an aircraft carrier . http://breakingdefense.com/2016/08/turn-off-that-iphone-commandant-tells-marines/ The Navy has really taken on the CDO environment, the brought back Celestial Navigation classes back to the USNA this year. A lot of it was influenced by the book Ghost Fleet which is a pretty good read about a near future war with a Near Peer (China) and the US Mil's over-reliance on technology centralized C2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 I'm reading about an USMC General telling the troops to turn off the cell phones and get off the grid. Later on they talk about the Navy turning off the GPS and doing celestial navigation.My question is when was the last time the USAF navigator put a sextant through the port to shoot stars? If we ever get into a WW3 type shooting war one would think our GPS satellites would be a priority target as much as an aircraft carrier . http://breakingdefense.com/2016/08/turn-off-that-iphone-commandant-tells-marines/ Cel nav isn't a worthwhile skill IMO as it's been made obsolete by laser ring gyro INS. Fielded INS in USAF aircraft have low enough drift rates that learning cel nav isn't necessary especially if you have a decent radar to update the INS with a fix. Exactly, standard practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08Dawg Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 21 hours ago, Prosuper said: I'm reading about an USMC General telling the troops to turn off the cell phones and get off the grid. Later on they talk about the Navy turning off the GPS and doing celestial navigation.My question is when was the last time the USAF navigator put a sextant through the port to shoot stars? If we ever get into a WW3 type shooting war one would think our GPS satellites would be a priority target as much as an aircraft carrier . http://breakingdefense.com/2016/08/turn-off-that-iphone-commandant-tells-marines/ I know of one, maybe two very crusty, very senior Lt Col Buff IRs that would even begin to know how to do this. We as a community don't have the equipment or the knowledge. That being said...Laser ring INUs have made this more or less obsolescent. I don't need a GPS to be accurate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaarman Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 So things are looking up right? http://www.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/SECAF/160819_Fact_Sheet.pdf?ver=2016-08-19-123457-803 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 More of those need to just go away 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcola Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Its a start. Hopefully once the changes are implemented and CSSs are right sized they'll do another review and eliminate more of this queep. Unfortunately in order for a lot of this stuff to go away AFIs will have to be waived/rewritten and that also takes manpower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 So they will plus up the CSS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookieRookie Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, matmacwc said: So they will plus up the CSS? Squadrons are going to have to retask a lot of Lts to meet eventual mandated CSS manning levels since there won't be an knowledge ops airman available. /cynical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Unfortunately in order for a lot of this stuff to go away AFIs will have to be waived/rewritten and that also takes manpower That takes the staff doing their J-O-B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 1 hour ago, matmacwc said: So they will plus up the CSS? 1 hour ago, LookieRookie said: Squadrons are going to have to retask a lot of Lts to meet eventual mandated CSS manning levels since there won't be an knowledge ops airman available. /cynical Yes, they are going to plus up the CSS'. 3A's AFSC has been recreated to be exactly what it was before Skeltor destroyed the AFSC & Sq CSS. So, basically it's going back to what it was when I joined in 1999. However, there are still a lot more programs now than then. I'm particularly concerned with moving UDM to the CSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFAF Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I'm particularly concerned with moving UDM to the CSS. Agreed, seems like the right direction overall but this one left me scratching my cranium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guineapigfury Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I'm a former chief of mobility. Putting the UDM role with the CSS is insane. Units with a significant number of taskings need someone doing that job as their primary duty. We ended up hiring a civilian and it made life much easier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 41 minutes ago, guineapigfury said: I'm a former chief of mobility. Putting the UDM role with the CSS is insane. Units with a significant number of taskings need someone doing that job as their primary duty. We ended up hiring a civilian and it made life much easier. Fuck it... Are you really telling me people aren't going to get out the door because there isn't someone spending their primary duty loading names into a 1970s system? People will still be on the iron or the rotators on-time. As for tracking MR stuff, that can easily be soaked up by the training shop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guineapigfury Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 They'll go out the door, but without someone working full time they won't have the proper training, equipment or sometimes even correct destination on their plane tickets. If support agencies (supply shop, CATM, LRS, etc) did their job it wouldn't be this way. I had to move heaven and earth just to get my dudes OCPs, locks that actually fit the firearms case, small arms training (tacked it onto a training TDY), and convince LRS not to send my dudes to the wrong country just because someone on another continent jacked up a spreadsheet and couldn't be bothered to fix it. I was on shift-work and frequently came in hours early or stayed hours late to have a face to face meeting with someone or their boss to resolve something that should have been fixable with an email. We were the drone squadron at a bomber base, so that didn't help. My blood pressure is going up just thinking about it. Hopefully it's different for other communities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFAF Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Hopefully it's different for other communities. I was able to get myself to/from the AOR multiple times despite the system (in & out-processing, rotator schedule, etc) holding me back. More efficiently as well, but then again I was a singleton. Dealing with larger units takes a little more coordination. Problem is the one-size fits all, lowest common denominator mentality has made the mobility job a bitch. It doesn't have to be so hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Sorry to get your blood pressure up man, but the short story fix to that is your Sq CC, group CC, and probably wing CV having some semblance of balls and telling the MSG or LRG CC (whatever your setup is) to unfornicate their processes to make deployments happen. I know... That's asking for a lot these days especially when dealing with BPZers just looking to not rock the boat and move on to the next thing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guineapigfury Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Not a problem, it was a couple of years ago. I got some successful SQ/CC involvement with the ticket issue, but I was too hard-headed to ask for help on the other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abmwaldo Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Sorry to get your blood pressure up man, but the short story fix to that is your Sq CC, group CC, and probably wing CV having some semblance of balls and telling the MSG or LRG CC (whatever your setup is) to unfornicate their processes to make deployments happen. I know... That's asking for a lot these days especially when dealing with BPZers just looking to not rock the boat and move on to the next thing. That works until you're an ACC tenant unit on an AFMC base and the ABW/CC is more concerned with the union than military necessity. If you've ever tried to deploy 260+ folks at one time UDM is truly a full time job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
di1630 Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 $12B could have bought a few more F-22s I think. http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/02/politics/us-air-force-f-15-upgrades/index.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muscle2002 Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 $12B could have bought a few more F-22s I think. http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/02/politics/us-air-force-f-15-upgrades/index.html The article doesn't mention the fact that the upgrades are for both C-models and E-models as they move to a common OFP. So while the author focuses on air-to-air, there are key capabilities coming with the improved hardware and software for the air-to-ground role. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-Dub Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, di1630 said: $12B could have bought a few more F-22s I think. http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/02/politics/us-air-force-f-15-upgrades/index.html You're correct in your assessment of only a few jets. http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2010/RAND_MG797.pdf 1 hour ago, Muscle2002 said: The article doesn't mention the fact that the upgrades are for both C-models and E-models as they move to a common OFP. So while the author focuses on air-to-air, there are key capabilities coming with the improved hardware and software for the air-to-ground role. Exactly right. The 2010 RAND analysis estimated $20B (FY08) to get 75 F-22s. This already ignores the current $1.2B software development and other developmental efforts currently on-going with the aircraft. Not sure where CNN gets $12B for the F-15 efforts (the last I was aware was $10B was approved in FY15 for EPAWSS, common OFP, SLEP, and others), but you get ~450 aircraft (F-15C/D/E) good through 2048. I personally agreed with this decision when it came out due to the cost/benefit and return for the US tax payer, IMHBAO. Edit: I don't spell so good... Edited September 2, 2016 by R-Dub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 On 8/21/2016 at 11:27 PM, abmwaldo said: That works until you're an ACC tenant unit on an AFMC base and the ABW/CC is more concerned with the union than military necessity. If you've ever tried to deploy 260+ folks at one time UDM is truly a full time job. At least on the mx side of your wing they had a shop just to make sure everybody had their fecal matter all together and we just got on the E-3 to rotate or drove down to KOKC to get a flight to Baltimore to catch the rotater. What screwed everything up was bringing in a commercial jet to Ktik and deal with a ATOC that are straight reservists that are out of practice which turned everything into an CF. Coming home dealing with the customs prick (ex ABM'r) at KTIK meant a 5 hour stay on base before you can go home. Remember pleading with a new ACC to stop at Bangor to clear customs but pressed home and stayed on the jet for 2 hours in the bird cage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprkt69 Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Anyone else read this? Replace the Navy speak with AF speak, and it represents the fighter community well. https://fightersweep.com/6171/is-naval-aviation-culture-dead/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcola Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Awesome that it was written by a former SECNAV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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