What's wrong with the Air Force?

[di1630]

Today I used the MPF at a Marine base and was shocked. I honestly felt like I was in a different military. After weeks of dealing with inept, lazy USAF support personnel and civilians to PCS, I was utterly amazed at the difference in professionalism and work that I saw. I was not in uniform so no indication of rank. Makes me really think the USAF has a SEVERE culture problem (on the support side that is)

[Fifty-six & Two]

Makes me really think the USAF has a SEVERE culture problem (on the support side that is)

Did you get the memo? If it wasn't for those support folks, we wouldn't even have an Air Force.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[FUSEPLUG]

Makes me really think the USAF has a SEVERE culture problem (on the support side that is)

Meh, we're pretty f'd up on the ops side too...

[Smokin]

But at least most guys in Ops know what their job is and how it fits into, or actually is, the mission. If you had asked those Marines how they supported the mission, I bet they could give you clear, concise, and correct answer. Try that at an AF MPF and you'll just get the RCA dog look.

[MSCguy]

Answer to above question when I was in MX: Our purpose is to do whatever it takes to get jets ready and meet the flying schedule.

Answer to above question in medical: Our purpose is to max out our PT scores and work really hard on rewriting our bullets for awards packages.

[chim richalds]

Part of it is our culture, we allow people to get away with shit too much, and pretty soon all our support staff acts like they work at the dmv.

[jrobe]

Answer to above question when I was in MX: Our purpose is to do whatever it takes to get jets ready and meet the flying schedule.

Or.....ask a crew when they drop dead before you give an ETIC. And base said ETIC on the drop dead time ...so they have to CNX and no delay code is recorded....OPs CNX

And/or....do the above...stare at a jet in the next parking spot...and say we have no spare....

Sorry couldn't help myself......

Hate hate hate

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[17D_guy]

Hey did I miss the part where we start blaming support for the problems in the AF?

[Azimuth]

Hey did I miss the part where we start blaming support for the problems in the AF?

Yeah, that's not right. It's obviously Ops's fault.

[busdriver]

What kills me about MX playing stats games is that those stats should help highlight things like under-manning and acquisitions problems. Guess it's better to hide the problems and kick the can down the road.

[SurelySerious]

What kills me about MX playing stats games is that those stats should help highlight things like under-manning and acquisitions problems. Guess it's better to hide the problems and kick the can down the road.

You mean they don't have a bigger perspective than "it's not our fault"? Shocker.

[Ram]

What kills me about MX playing stats games is that those stats should help highlight things like under-manning and acquisitions problems. Guess it's better to hide the problems and kick the can down the road.

THIS. HOLY SHIT, THIS SO FUCKING MUCH, DUDE.

[WABoom]

I was supposed to fly on Friday but alas, MX couldn't produce a jet. I know they have manning issues, especially 7-Levels, I just hope these problems make it up to AMC.

[jrobe]

I was supposed to fly on Friday but alas, MX couldn't produce a jet. I know they have manning issues, especially 7-Levels, I just hope these problems make it up to AMC.

MICT will solve everything....even manning

There is no way a write up stays a write up....Over and over and over again....it will be fixed by the upper echelon folks

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

Edited August 3, 2014 by jrobe

[BitteEinBit]

I was supposed to fly on Friday but alas, MX couldn't produce a jet. I know they have manning issues, especially 7-Levels, I just hope these problems make it up to AMC.

It won't...no one wants to ever admit there is a problem....especially now while big blue is looking to cut people. Remember, we have to make the stats look good...doesn't matter if we are good or not as long as we look good. And don't even complain about manning. We need resilience, not whiners complaining about manning. Now get back to work making those numbers look good. I want to see all green on the slides tomorrow!

"If I don't do anything to negatively highlight myself or my workplace, maybe I'll be safe this round of cuts"

[pbar]

Part of the problem is we operators need to do a better job educating the support folks. Granted you'll find a lot who could care less but still. Back when I was a young captain and the squadron EWO (insert nav joke here), I took some of the defense avionics troops into the sim so they could kinda see how we use the stuff (would have loved to get them a flight, but crew chiefs should go first and not enough flights to go around). They were really jazzed about it and the senior guy was a MSgt who told me he'd been working on the B-1 for 15 years and this was the first time a crewdawg had taken him into the sim to explain how we use the equipment he worked on. Did the same thing for the radar maintainers and got the same response.

Edited August 3, 2014 by pbar

[17D_guy]

Yeah, that's not right. It's obviously Ops's fault.

Negative. It's a culture we've allowed to build up over time in all communities. I can't tell you how many Comm guys I get to re-educate about how the aircraft flying is more important than patching their systems, or doing some nerd work.

Look at the ESD, you think anyone educated about providing air power had a hand in deciding to roll-out.. and then kill that atrocity? But.. you think only support guys were involved in that decision? No, it's a failure of Support and the Rated officers who run stuff in the Air Force.

I imagine some of the same problems persist with our MX brethren as well.

Cyber can't get anyone but Space Generals running. Good thing they know what the local Comm Sq. is going through.

Part of the problem is we operators need to do a better job educating the support folks.

I'm very thankful for this board because it's helped me realize the Ops side of the house. The Amn in my Flight don't even know the aircraft at my base. I'm trying to think of ways to fix that.

[Day Man]

call the squadrons, ask to speak to the newest Lt, request statics with them...OPR bullets around, perspective gained for your Amn.

[SurelySerious]

https://www.duffelblog.com/2014/02/air-force-change-of-command/#!bu0Dno

Sounds about right.

[Slander]

I'm very thankful for this board because it's helped me realize the Ops side of the house. The Amn in my Flight don't even know the aircraft at my base. I'm trying to think of ways to fix that.

2 on what Day Man said...call up the flying squadron scheduling shop, tell them who you are and what you want to do. They should find an Lt or young Capt to bring you out to a jet within a week. If they don't they're stupid. Nobody likes the zipper-suited sungod prima donna reputation and most guys actively try to fix it.

We do pet the jet tours about every 3 weeks for the FTAC course at Spang for every FTAC class. I have given a couple of the tours and some of the Airmen had no idea there are fighters in the fighter wing...it's something. "So do you fly the big jets on the other side of the base too?" is a fairly common question.

I've also heard that at a non-RoK PACAF base during the mandatory in-processing briefings they actually give the Secret // NO-FORN mission brief of the base and some capes of the jets at a classification higher than "overseas air show." Another thing that has started happening more and more recently is referencing the base and squadron DOC statement missions. I don't know if the CS has a DOC statement mission, I assume it does. Enabling X A/C to deploy in Y hours or something like that?

[Azimuth]

If the RC folks are difficult to set up incentive flights, the Nebraska KC-135 are great folks and would help in a heart beat.

I spent five years as a Personnelist before I became a Boom. As a support person you get sheltered in your world and it's easy to become oblivious of the real mission of the base you're at. Had I not been in a C-130 squadron, and had been given incentive flights, flown organic airlift, It probably wouldn't of sparked my passion for flying.

[BitteEinBit]

We as an organization have failed if we have airmen stationed at an overseas fighter base don't know there are fighters located there. No wonder we don't get any support from the "support" functions on base. They all must really think the base is there because of them...because everyone is "tip of the spear...fight tonight" in today's Air Force. We feel left out if we are just considered "support.". If Amn Snuffy doesn't know how their job fits in to the mission of that base or the overall mission of the Air Force then they have failed and the Air Force has failed them. I guess what I think is just basic common knowledge about the Air Force isn't common knowledge at all. I guess I am part of the problem too because I don't make any attempts to educate people on these things either...but then again, I didn't think I had to tell a graduate of BMT assigned to an operational base that information. Bad on me for being blind. Good on all of you folks like 17D and Dayman who are actively trying to change that.

If the finance guy at Ramstein can understand why Lt Schmuckatelli from the 37th AS needs a bag of cash at 3am on a Saturday morning because he is going on an Africa mission to bring back stowaways (too soon?) then Airman Bagadonuts won't complain so much when they have to come in on a Saturday to do their job. .they just know that they came in to support a real-world mission. But that isn't how we train our personnel to think....we lead them to believe that they are part of a "0900 to 1100 and 1300-1500 four times a week" kind of organization who has to race to see who can make it out the front gate before retreat is played...and it is just too inconvenient to work on weekends and holidays..

Sad...very sad.

Edit: Because I can never type a post without grammarlogical errors....

Edited August 4, 2014 by BitteEinBit

[Fuzz]

I try to do this as often as possible, its amazing the looks I get when I tell non-ops people what the day to day like for us. Not to brag about how hard we have it but to make them see the why I need may pay fixed because I got told 12 hours ago I was leaving on a two week stage etc. For the non-ops guys please make a call to your local ops squadron; there's always a Lt. that can spare an hour or two.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Fuzz

[17D_guy]

Thanks gents, didn't know if I could just call and see about a static. I'm trying to get it rolled into FTAC here so all the Amn can roll through once they get to the base, not just my nerds.

Another thing that has started happening more and more recently is referencing the base and squadron DOC statement missions. I don't know if the CS has a DOC statement mission, I assume it does. Enabling X A/C to deploy in Y hours or something like that?

Don't know what a DOC statement is. From your last sentence I'd say we don't have one. That would be very difficult for us to develop and we have so many other controlling agencies (DISA, CyberCOM, 24th AF, shudder AFSPC) our mission focus is very difficult to maintain sometimes.

I'll ask around though.

Edited August 4, 2014 by 17D_guy

[Slander]

Don't know what a DOC statement is. From your last sentence I'd say we don't have one. That would be very difficult for us to develop and we have so many other controlling agencies (DISA, CyberCOM, 24th AF, shudder AFSPC) our mission focus is very difficult to maintain sometimes.

"DOC" = Designed Operational Capability

You may not have one, I don't know, that's why I asked. Your wing almost certainly does, it's the SIPR side mission statement of what your base is expected by the COCOMs for war making. If you don't...maybe you should get one. It might help your lack of mission focus.