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Classic Thread - Security Forces (SFS) Tales


Ferg

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I'm leaving the squardon about mid-night 30.

Pulling out of the parking lot, 69 yards away, is a sky cop car, partially direct terrain masked behind a dumpster --- speed trap.

Cops, Flyers, and MX are the only peeps working at midnight on a Friday, and they want to speed trap us - WTF?

Cap-10, I would have thought you would have learned from my mistakes.

Said Sq/CC in my story is now your Wg/CC. His take on my situation was classic, may want to let him know.

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Just when I thought I heard it all....I was at a BBQ today in the local area and heard this story from a fellow Loadmaster from my Sq here at Little Rock...

He was riding his bike home to base housing from the education center....he has one of those nice bikes with a speedo and everything...well he said there was no one around as he was hitting an area that goes downhill....he gets his bike up to 32 mph and low and behold a cop catches up to him and pulls him over.....he was in a 15 MPH zone....he said when the cop pulled up he had to tell the person he was on his cell phone with to hold on, guess that rule doesn't apply to them....he then asked my buddy if he knew how fast he was going and informs him that even bikes must obey all traffic laws just like cars :bash: proceeds to give him a verbal warning and sends him on his way :bohica:

Edited by loadsmith
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Not really a story, but funny none the less:

Anyone familar with LRAFB knows about our DWI problem. At each entrance there is a board that records the last DWI. The goal is to go 60 days without a DWI and we get a day off from work. I think I heard that we have not had a day off in like 3 years. Anyway, this past weekend who sets the example of getting a DWI? Thats right none other than the 19th SFS. So next time they pull you over you may want to ask them if they would submit to a field sobriety test!! :beer:

Karma is a b*tch! :bohica:

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Not really a funny story, more of an FYI...

Today my car wouldn't start on base and the random MSgt in the parking lot suggested calling SF. As I was trying to avoid calling guys in the squadron to leave work and drive over for a jump, I thought this was a decent idea. After 2 seconds on the phone with the SF Amn, though, I was informed it is against the AFI to use a patrol car to jump start another car. When I asked why, the answer was "that's what the book says!"

After brainstorming another 2 seconds after I hung up, I am pretty sure some SF guy completely destroyed a patrol car battery attempting to jump start someone's car a long time ago, so Big Blue wrote a rule preventing them from touching jumper cables. God forbid they be of any assistance as they tool around watching for 3 second pauses.

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The rule actually says something along the lines of GOVs can only be jump started with a GOV and no GOV can be used to jump start a POV. So, it isn't SP specific, but you are 100% correct in the usefullness of SP's in general. I never got a good answer about the Why part either, but that's been around for quite a while and you know how difficult it can be to change institutional momentum.

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Not really a funny story, more of an FYI...

Today my car wouldn't start on base and the random MSgt in the parking lot suggested calling SF. As I was trying to avoid calling guys in the squadron to leave work and drive over for a jump, I thought this was a decent idea. After 2 seconds on the phone with the SF Amn, though, I was informed it is against the AFI to use a patrol car to jump start another car. When I asked why, the answer was "that's what the book says!"

After brainstorming another 2 seconds after I hung up, I am pretty sure some SF guy completely destroyed a patrol car battery attempting to jump start someone's car a long time ago, so Big Blue wrote a rule preventing them from touching jumper cables. God forbid they be of any assistance as they tool around watching for 3 second pauses.

And if they did go ahead and attempt to jump start your vehicle but in the process scratch your paint as they're hooking up the cables and accidentally touch something and fry your car's computer... who's going to pay? Are you going to just blow it off and take teh hit yourself or are you going to make Big Blue pay for the damages? My guess is you're gonna make Big Blue try and pay which it then becomes a liability issue. Hence it's easier to just not get involved in the practice at all rather than risk having a bunch of claims by people looking to get some extra dough from Uncle Sam.

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When I asked why, the answer was "that's what the book says!"

There might actually be a good reason for this. Many (most?) police cars are 28V electrical systems, incompatible with your 14V car.

Now, I don't know the specifics of Laughlin's SF motor pool, but this has been the case for other police (AF & civilian) units I've been familiar with.

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Okay we've all had less than pleasant encounters with SF stateside but I had the privilege of serving with them in Baghdad and yes it was a privilege.

More than one owes their life to the SF after an attack where they rendered life saving first aid. That's just for starters.

I think it's a reflection of stateside leadership whith some of the more questionable encounters in the states.

I also saw them in a law enforcement capacity in Iraq. Sometime it was a thankless job given some of the stupidity I saw with soldiers, airmen, marines, sailors (with a few O-6s and GOs thrown in) and civilians.

For you young UPT types try to keep that in mind as you go through your career. :flag_waving:

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A decent one for a change: Here at KBAD TDY for some 8th AF change of command or something. Dumped the back end off at the hotel to play WOW, and we have been flying our butts off around the pattern here with a nice, big jet all to ourselves for three days. Seven of us crammed into a rental mini van on our way to go take the jet for a little spin around the patch on a beautiful day. Nav #1 who is driving, does not come to a complete stop... Here comes SFS to save the day, lights and sirens blaring. After taking a look in the van, and all of us in uniform obviously on the way to go do SOMETHING, the SSgt says "I'm going to let you go with a warning. "

:beer: to you, KBAD SSgt. (No names will be mentioned because I don't wanna get him in trouble for being "Cool".) E-Mail is on the way to his commander tomorrow telling of his professionalism and great military bearing.

Edit: Clarification

Edited by discus
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Guest boredwith9to5
I recognize you, though, come on through ."

Personal recognition...what a concept.

I'm a civilian contractor working on an Army post and I gotta say the SF contract security police guys here are some of the coolest dudes when it comes to stuff like this. I've been in an AF family and been on lots of bases and these guys are the most chill.

Anyways, I ride a motorcycle to work everyday and recently misplaced my shoulder strap that holds my CAC card so I don't have to fish for it. There's this one particular guy who is nice and usually just looks at my shoulder to see if it's there and waves me on through. He RECOGNIZES me because I was the only yahoo riding his motorcycle to work in the single digit temps during the winter. So since I don't have my armband anymore I have to keep my cards under my leg. By chance I just happened to be going through a different entrance than normal and he was there that day and as I went to reach for my card, he just waved me on through before I even got to him. Very nice of him because it's a real pain to have to do all that on a bike. There were also a couple of times where I was not in proper motorcycle gear (full fingered gloves and shoes that cover your ankles). As I went through the gate these guys just asked if I had them at home and told me to wear them next time and let me keep going. Real nice guys.

So since this is a thread where we share our tales of douchebaggery SF folks, I remember last year when my wife and I went to visit my mom stationed at Spangdahlem (and celebrate our anniversary in Europe.. hells yea!). We were at the base chapel for something one night and it was already dark when we left. The chapel was all of 1/2 a mile from billeting where she was staying and we had pulled out of the parking lot and were heading down the road when the flashing lights started shining through. My mom pulls over and sure enough they pull up behind. She got a ticket for failing to use her turn signal when exiting a parking lot... My moms not a pilot or anything, but she had given more years of service than that SF girl had even been alive... Not to mention she VOLUNTEERED for that tour of duty to qualify her for her 20 years of AD (shes a reservist). What a lame ticket.

Great stories everyone. I can't wait to experience it myself... /sarcasm

EDIT: Looked like it was typed by the SF.. speeling isn't their strong soot.

Edited by boredwith9to5
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So I've just returned to the Q at Altus after an evening of chillin with the bros at a BBQ off base only to find the parking lots of the dorms blocked off by SF. I roll down the window and say "Hey, I live in that dorm there (150 yards from present position) can I just pull in there and park my car?" SF dude tells me "No, we have something going on right now. You have to park down by the library." It's only like 2 blocks no big deal, but it's late and I've got a bunch of stuff that I have to carry back to the fridge. So I make my three point turn and go back to the other lot and hike back lugging all this crap only to find in the mean time all the SF d!@ks have left, leaving the road completely unblocked. Seriously. It was maybe 5 minutes tops. I couldn't have just parked my car and walked 10 feet into my room? These guys just love fu@&ing around with everyone whenever they get the opportunity.

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Guest Alarm Red

For the love of christ please stop calling them SF - especially when you are referring to the contract security at an Army post.

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For the love of christ please stop calling them SF - especially when you are referring to the contract security at an Army post.

SF = Security Forces as in Security Forces Squadron = SFS; Spec Ops = SOF

You are correct about the contract security though... they shouldnt be called SF; it just demeans them (the contractors not SF).

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SF = Security Forces as in Security Forces Squadron = SFS; Spec Ops = SOF

You are correct about the contract security though... they shouldnt be called SF; it just demeans them (the contractors not SF).

SF = Special Forces (U.S. Army)

So when referring to guards at a US Army Post, it could get confusing for some (I guess). Hell, just go old school and call them Air Police or SP's.

Welcome to the suck!

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so here we are at ASBC, at Blue Thunder. My flight goes for PT with another Flight to play some ultimate football/frisbee (1 game of each going on), and halfway through we're all confused as the SF is watching us from the parking lot. We're all wondering if they are actually afraid we're going to randomly run to the flightline or something dumb like that.

All the sudden the lights go up and the siren goes off on the truck for a quick second. I look over and notice that the other team had just scored in ultimate frisbee.... they had played the siren as part of the celebration for the team.

Thought it was pretty funny.

Oh, and mad props to the C-130 crew that kept buzzing us at (3-500 feet). That second pass with a pretty good banked turn was killer (that and I threw a TD pass while everyone was distracted.)

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Other than that general 'hey I'm behind a mirrored window so I can treat you like shit' attitude I've had to deal with at our SFS building, I've had my share of 'run-ins' with our SF folks. But one will always stand out...

In Colorado, as with many other states, your license plate stickers are good until the last day of the month they are issued in, for me this is the month of June. Well in my moving around between the dorms and my apartment, I had never gotten my renewal card. I was aware that my stickers were getting close to expiration, so I called up the DMV/tax office and took care of it over the phone. This was about three weeks before the end of June.

Now I'm in the middle of phase two, double turning some days, so checking my mail kinda fell out of my cross check.

A few Fridays later and I am going on my XC. I get to the gate, show my ID, and as I'm pulling away one of the guards yells out "STOP HIM...DON'T LET HIM ON BASE" so the second dude jumps in front of my car...hand on gun ready to draw. I'm really like WTF at this point. The first guy runs up to my window, banging on it as I'm rolling it down the yells in my face that my tags are expired and I cannot go on base. Shit, I call my SRO and he comes and picks me up at the visitors center (VC). The weekend goes by, I get stuck in Roswell NM with a broke T6, and my IP gives me a ride back to my car. I stop by the VC and call over to the SFS building to see what I can do to get on base. It was a painful conversation with the sergeant, but we came to the conclusion that since my car was showing up as registered in the government computer system, I could come on base. Ok cool.

Monday morning:

I drove on base, no problem, nothing was said about my tags. I usually parked in a lot right across the street from the squadron, but this lot also happened to be right next to the SFS building. Later in the morning I walked out to my car and found a ticket. The ticket was for expired tags, and there was also a nasty gram attached stating that I had to report to the Sergeant at Arms or something like that. Ok I thought, no big deal. My car IS registered, I just don't have the stickers yet. They know this. So I go back into the flight room and tell my flight commander about the ticket and the situation with my tags. Neither one of us thought it was a big deal, but I'd take care of it and keep him informed. I went over to SFS and asked to see the guy that gave me the nasty gram. Through the mirrored window the SF guy told me "stay exactly where you are...don't move" then two SF guys came out, with a dog even, and 'escorted' me to a small room, told me to have a seat at the table, and the guy with the dog stood in the doorway...presumably so I couldn't leave. He said nothing to me at all, even when I asked him what was going on.

Then this master sergeant shows up. He starts grilling me about how I got on base, what was I doing driving a car with expired tags 'on his base'...'threatening everyone's saftey' I sh*t you not...that's the cr@p that was coming out of his mouth. Anytime I tried to talk he yelled and told me to shut up that I was lying about my phone conversation the night before, that I was a disrespect to the USAF.

We're talking about fvcking registration stickers here folks!!! He kept asking me about how I got on base, all politeness went out the door and finally I said something about his people not doing their jobs is how I got on base. He got red in the face. I laughed, which didn't help. I mean it was absolutely nuts what was going on....beyond all comprehension. He then told me I had to see the OiC, but since the OiC wasn't there I could leave and they would call or come get me. Come get me? WTF?

So I went back to the SQ and told my entire flight, studs and IPs, what just happened. My flight commander took me down to the SQ/CC (a Navy O5) and I told my story. Now our SQ/CC was fairly new, and I had never dealt with him at all, but what followed next won me over and I fill forever follow this dude into hell if he asked.

He stood up, said let's go see what we can do about this and out the door he went, I had to run to catch up. He stormed across the parking lot, the street, and busted into the SFS building with a fury. Demanded to see the sergeant and any officers that were around. The sergeant came, with about 5 other SF dudes (show of force?), and my SQ/CC asked their side of the story, which hadn't changed, then tore into the guy.

The long and short of it was "so stickers are more important than your government computer that shows he is registered? You are idiots." He told them, didn't ask, that I would be allowed on base. And I was.

My stickers showed up in the mail two days later. I parked in that parking lot for the rest of phase two...bastards.

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A question from a soon to be butter bar (one more month of summer class) for the more experienced folks. If you are an officer, being treated very disrespectfully by a SFS NCO for no justifiable reason like the above story what would be the appropriate response from an officer?

Grin and bare (sts) until you contact your chain?

Put the asshat in his place right there?

Do what above poster did by being a smart ass and then getting the chain involved?

Something else entirely?

Edited by FlyingBull
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A question from a soon to be butter bar (one more month of summer class) for the more experienced folks. If you are an officer, being treated very disrespectfully by a SFS NCO for no justifiable reason like the above story what would be the appropriate response from an officer?

Grin and bare (sts) until you contact your chain?

Put the asshat in his place right there?

Do what above poster did by being a smart ass and then getting the chain involved?

Something else entirely?

Respectfully remind them...that'd be the best answer. How to do that? Well it just depends.

I'm not saying what I did was right or wrong, nor would I do it the same way. At the time I was just so taken back by what was going on that I didn't honestly know what to do...it was just so out of left field. At the time I wasn't obviously getting anywhere with the guy on my own, so I brought it up with my flight/CC..he then took me to the SQ/CC.

And even though the sergeant was being very disrespectful to me, and as funny (to me) as my smart mouth was at the time, it wasn't appropriate for me as an officer to say that to a sergeant.

Oh well. I got my stickers on time this year.

Edited by contraildash
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A question from a soon to be butter bar (one more month of summer class) for the more experienced folks. If you are an officer, being treated very disrespectfully by a SFS NCO for no justifiable reason like the above story what would be the appropriate response from an officer?

Grin and bare (sts) until you contact your chain?

Put the asshat in his place right there?

Do what above poster did by being a smart ass and then getting the chain involved?

Something else entirely?

Professionally, tell the Asshat that he is out of line with his tone and demeanor and he needs to check his attitude at the door. Request to speak to an officer supervisor immediately. Ask him if you are being charged with a crime and if not you have multiple avenues to take this. If you are an Lt, then most supervisors in the SFS will outrank you, but will pobably be more professional than what was relayed above.

Be careful with what you do or say because if they plan to charge you with some UCMJ/ legal "crime", they can also charge you with interfering with the duties of a sentinel, if you go too far, or some other nonsense. After getting out of whatever situation you are in, find your supervisor and inform them of whatever it is that is going on.

It's easy to say now how I would handle this, but I can tell you that even as a Lt, I didn't put up with this kind of sh!t from my cops. But, usually and in a general sense, the SP's will protect their own until you leave and then they will eat their young.

Edited by Herk Driver
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I get to the gate, show my ID, and as I'm pulling away one of the guards yells out "STOP HIM...DON'T LET HIM ON BASE" so the second dude jumps in front of my car...hand on gun ready to draw. I'm really like WTF at this point. The first guy runs up to my window, banging on it as I'm rolling it down the yells in my face that my tags are expired and I cannot go on base. Shit, I call my SRO and he comes and picks me up at the visitors center (VC). The weekend goes by, I get stuck in Roswell NM with a broke T6, and my IP gives me a ride back to my car. I stop by the VC and call over to the SFS building to see what I can do to get on base. It was a painful conversation with the sergeant, but we came to the conclusion that since my car was showing up as registered in the government computer system, I could come on base. Ok cool.

Monday morning:

I drove on base, no problem, nothing was said about my tags. I usually parked in a lot right across the street from the squadron, but this lot also happened to be right next to the SFS building. Later in the morning I walked out to my car and found a ticket. The ticket was for expired tags, and there was also a nasty gram attached stating that I had to report to the Sergeant at Arms or something like that. Ok I thought, no big deal. My car IS registered, I just don't have the stickers yet. They know this. So I go back into the flight room and tell my flight commander about the ticket and the situation with my tags. Neither one of us thought it was a big deal, but I'd take care of it and keep him informed. I went over to SFS and asked to see the guy that gave me the nasty gram. Through the mirrored window the SF guy told me "stay exactly where you are...don't move" then two SF guys came out, with a dog even, and 'escorted' me to a small room, told me to have a seat at the table, and the guy with the dog stood in the doorway...presumably so I couldn't leave. He said nothing to me at all, even when I asked him what was going on.

Then this master sergeant shows up. He starts grilling me about how I got on base, what was I doing driving a car with expired tags 'on his base'...'threatening everyone's saftey' I sh*t you not...that's the cr@p that was coming out of his mouth. Anytime I tried to talk he yelled and told me to shut up that I was lying about my phone conversation the night before, that I was a disrespect to the USAF.

We're talking about fvcking registration stickers here folks!!! He kept asking me about how I got on base, all politeness went out the door and finally I said something about his people not doing their jobs is how I got on base. He got red in the face. I laughed, which didn't help. I mean it was absolutely nuts what was going on....beyond all comprehension. He then told me I had to see the OiC, but since the OiC wasn't there I could leave and they would call or come get me. Come get me? WTF?

So I went back to the SQ and told my entire flight, studs and IPs, what just happened. My flight commander took me down to the SQ/CC (a Navy O5) and I told my story. Now our SQ/CC was fairly new, and I had never dealt with him at all, but what followed next won me over and I fill forever follow this dude into hell if he asked.

He stood up, said let's go see what we can do about this and out the door he went, I had to run to catch up. He stormed across the parking lot, the street, and busted into the SFS building with a fury. Demanded to see the sergeant and any officers that were around. The sergeant came, with about 5 other SF dudes (show of force?), and my SQ/CC asked their side of the story, which hadn't changed, then tore into the guy.

The long and short of it was "so stickers are more important than your government computer that shows he is registered? You are idiots." He told them, didn't ask, that I would be allowed on base. And I was.

My stickers showed up in the mail two days later. I parked in that parking lot for the rest of phase two...bastards.

1. Good on your SQ/CC for backing you up. Generally speaking, the Navy is pretty intolerant of enlisted mouthing off to officers.

2. What. The. FUCK?! to the items in bold above.

3 (but related to 2). I said it before:

What part of the military police job description allows them to actively and repeatedly flaunt both the UCMJ and basic military customs and courtesies, when it comes to speaking to persons of a higher rank?

Herk Driver already answered the question in post #100.

In the Marines, the Duty NCO is a rep. of the Commanding Officer; I pulled DNCO, on average, once a month for almost 7 years. I fully understand the "representative of the CC" concept.

[RANT: ON]

However, that STILL does not give ANY enlisted person carte blanche to speak in a blatantly disrespectful manner to a commissioned officer! What the fuck is being taught to Airmen in basic training and tech schools?! For the love of Christ and puppies, "Don't be disrespectful to people senior to you" is the most basic concept in military service, behind "Other people tell me what to do"! Goddamnit, it's so fucking simple, yet it's apparently a foreign concept in some career fields/locations.

[RANT: OFF]

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I've had my own run-ins with cops in the past. Once, a long time ago I got a ticket (well, almost did) for having an expired license plate. This is similar to the story above by contraildash. The state I grew up in required everyone to renew their plates by April 15th (tax day), but the plates were actually good until the end of April (they have since adopted the register by your birth month standard). Basically there was a 15 day grace period. These plates actually had only a year sticker showing the year they are good for and no month. So, from 1 Jan, you are driving around waiting for the out of state cops to stop you until you show them the registration that tells them you are good until April. So, I had received my new sticker in the mail and just flat out forgot to put it on the car, but it was not past the end of April yet.

So, there I was, driving on Base X, in another state and get stopped by the SP's. I ask him what the problem is when he walks up to the car since he had been following me for about 2 miles and I saw him back there so I was obeying all the traffic laws. He tells me that I have expired plates. I explain to him that they are actually good until the end of the month and he must've said to me 6 times that they can't be because it is past April 15th and that is 'Tax Day'. So, I explain to him calmly that I have the new sticker and just haven't put it on the car yet, figuring he'll let me go. I mean I'm stupid here but not a tax evader. He says he has to write me the ticket since I haven't put them on the plate yet. So, again, I speak slower and try to explain that somewhere on the registration, it says that taxes are due by April 15th, but the registration continues to be good until the end of April. Well, in his haste to get my paperwork, I can't find the verbiage.

While he is writing the ticket, I pull out the new registration and find the verbiage on there. When he gets back, he explains all about the ticket and me having 24 hours to get it to a supervisor, yada, yada. I wait for him to finish with his speech and then I ask him if he read the back of the registration like I asked him to in order to find the part about the end of April being the expiration. He tells me No, so I flip the registration over and point out the line that shows that I am good to go. He stares at me for a minute or two like a stunned mullet and then tells me that he'll just take the ticket and tear it up and I can go.

Chalk one more up for the stupidity of the cops.

Edited by Herk Driver
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Most of the times cops are good about their customs and courtesies. That being said, I would have flat come unglued had the above situation happened to me. I had a similar run-in with SFS troops, regarding disrespectful attitudes. The SFS troop was in the wrong, and he let emotion get carried away and smarted off to me. Once that disrespect line is crossed, you have to recage that dude's gyro. My response to his disrespectful greeting to me was "NCOs still greet officers with a salute upon recognition, correct?" Kind of took him aback, but I asked for his personal info and contacted the SNCO at the LE desk after the stop.

As Toro stated, the "authority vs. rank" argument comes into play most times. Don't let them get away with inappropriate conduct, especially if they are talking to superiors. If you take what they are dishing out, you are just empowering them even more.

Even the Captain aircraft commander has to salute the Lt Col navigator when they aren't on the airplane, despite the level of "authority"...

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Exactly, the only time to be cordial to the cops is when you are guilty of whatever it is they are talking to you about.

Otherwise, if you are truly innocent, never, ever let them be insubordinate to you. In case you haven't looked at your LES or shoulders lately, you are a commissioned officer and you have the authority and expectation to stop them from being disrespectful toward you. I don't give a shit if it is the sky cops, some dipshit finance troop or the guy that slaps the scrambled eggs on your plate at the chow hall, the second you allow yourself to be treated this way, you are undermining the authority of all officers. If you can't man up to the unpleasantness of having to deal with situations such as these, then maybe you should consider another line of work. First and foremost, you are a commissioned officer in the United States Air Force, and you are expected to act like one...

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Exactly, the only time to be cordial to the cops is when you are guilty of whatever it is they are talking to you about.

Otherwise, if you are truly innocent, never, ever let them be insubordinate to you. In case you haven't looked at your LES or shoulders lately, you are a commissioned officer and you have the authority and expectation to stop them from being disrespectful toward you. I don't give a shit if it is the sky cops, some dipshit finance troop or the guy that slaps the scrambled eggs on your plate at the chow hall, the second you allow yourself to be treated this way, you are undermining the authority of all officers. If you can't man up to the unpleasantness of having to deal with situations such as these, then maybe you should consider another line of work. First and foremost, you are a commissioned officer in the United States Air Force, and you are expected to act like one...

M2 - is it you who has a little "riot act" booklet or something you carry around for such situations? I remember reading about some old-cranium on the site who has a little card he keeps in his wallet for just this kind of a situation. It had articles of the UCMJ on it for quoting...when the right situation came up, of course.

A quick reference for all young LTs to know their "rights" and responsibilities under the UCMJ would be useful for stuff like this, methinks.

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M2 - is it you who has a little "riot act" booklet or something you carry around for such situations? I remember reading about some old-cranium on the site who has a little card he keeps in his wallet for just this kind of a situation. It had articles of the UCMJ on it for quoting...when the right situation came up, of course.

A quick reference for all young LTs to know their "rights" and responsibilities under the UCMJ would be useful for stuff like this, methinks.

I used to carry a rights advisement card with me when I was on G-series orders. But no, I don't keep a gouge card on the UCMJ; I just knew the more common articles, and looked up the the rest as I needed them.

Every officer should have a copy of this, even if they currently a commander...

The Military Commander and the Law (3.7 MB)

Cheers! M2

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