war007afa Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 The queep trickles further downstream and further into the AO. Not downplaying the importance of a Change of Command ceremony, but when you pull away from the war effort to put up three separate static displays of combat aircraft and form up your wing in the AOR for a simple commander swap, maybe we should stop wondering why the other services laugh at us and our "priorities". I'm sure that there were even quiet hours put into effect for this... http://www.bagram.afcent.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123145035 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Sounds like that guy's standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C-21 Pilot Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Colonel Kwast, an F-15E Strike Eagle pilot who has flown more than 230 combat hours during Operations Desert Shield, Desert Storm, Southern Watch and Enduring Freedom Is this supposed to be impressive. Shit, we have co-pilots, less than 2 years in the C-17 (and other MWS) who have ammassed over 300 combat sorties. Geez... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war007afa Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 Whoa, now. Check fire. I'm not doubting the guy's credentials. I'm not out to discredit his airmanship or flying experience. Not to mention that you have to acknowledge that fighter guys log sorties 1.4 at a time versus our standard 8-hour plus sorties that we heavy guys are accustomed to. I AM doubting the utter stupidity of the planning and coordination required to pull guys away from their jobs or their limited free time in the AOR to put on a show for PA so we can read about this wonderful story on the AF Link. I believe the word of the day is "priorities". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noodles Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 AFCENT Band visits Bagram? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Is this supposed to be impressive. Shit, we have co-pilots, less than 2 years in the C-17 (and other MWS) who have ammassed over 300 combat sorties. Geez... Pretty asinine statement, actually. Bravo to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fud Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I AM doubting the utter stupidity of the planning and coordination required to pull guys away from their jobs or their limited free time in the AOR to put on a show for PA so we can read about this wonderful story on the AF Link. I believe the word of the day is "priorities". I'm just surprised the people in formation weren't wearing reflective belts. I have seen more of this formation shit than I can handle since I've been in, and it is disgusting. It really is no wonder our sister services laugh at us, and they will keep doing so until the ridiculousness stops. I also agree that C-17 "Combat Hours" are a little bit overstated. The missions of the two aircraft mentioned are completely different, but both require the pilots/crew to get into some danger. I also think it would only take one well aimed mortar round into the middle of a formation to get all of the bullshit to stop. It's too bad that big blue is completely reactive, because they don't see this coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 That copilot's "300 combat sorties"---how much time does that equate to? 1,500 combat hours? 2,500 combat hours? How much of that time was actually flown over hostile territory? How much of that time was flown over the Atlantic Ocean or even CONUS? How much of that time was he sleeping in the bunk? How much of that time was he engaged with the enemy? How many enemies did he kill during that "combat" time? What was altitude during 99.5% of that time? Ok, so how much of your favorite Col's combat time was worth a shit. Lets see, 238 combat hours (not 240 or 230… 238) during Operations DESERT SHIELD, DESERT STORM, SOUTHERN WATCH and ENDURING FREEDOM. DESERT SHEILD: All combat time orbiting with his thumb up his ass. DESERT STORM: In nearly six weeks of air strikes we only destroyed two T-72 tanks in one unit of the Iraqi 12 Armored Division. The 2nd Armored Cavalry destroyed the remaining thirty-seven armored vehicles in less than six minutes! Guess if he killed both of them himself, he may have killed 6 guys. Other than that he was dropping bombs on a bunch of GP vehicles fleeing Kuwait. Might as well go club some baby seals. SOUTHERN WATCH: All combat time orbiting with his thumb up his ass. ENDURING FREEDOM: He was an F-15E SQ/CC for 7 months of OEF, doubt he spent all 7 months logging combat sorties. After that it was school, staff AETC ect. Not impressed. C-17s RULE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt4fans Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Ok, so how much of your favorite Col's combat time was worth a shit. Lets see, 238 combat hours (not 240 or 230… 238) during Operations DESERT SHIELD, DESERT STORM, SOUTHERN WATCH and ENDURING FREEDOM. DESERT SHEILD: All combat time orbiting with his thumb up his ass. DESERT STORM: In nearly six weeks of air strikes we only destroyed two T-72 tanks in one unit of the Iraqi 12 Armored Division. The 2nd Armored Cavalry destroyed the remaining thirty-seven armored vehicles in less than six minutes! Guess if he killed both of them himself, he may have killed 6 guys. Other than that he was dropping bombs on a bunch of GP vehicles fleeing Kuwait. Might as well go club some baby seals. SOUTHERN WATCH: All combat time orbiting with his thumb up his ass. ENDURING FREEDOM: He was an F-15E SQ/CC for 7 months of OEF, doubt he spent all 7 months logging combat sorties. After that it was school, staff AETC ect. Not impressed. C-17s RULE! So, let's count your hours.......500 Hours during Operation Iraqi Freedom with your feet up and reading Maxim with the autopilot on flying from Turkey into the box and back out. 500 hours flying to and from Operation Enduring Freedom while you're cruising along at FL 330 on the Boulevard Northbound making asinine radio calls while reading a Maxim before you start the 5 minute approach to Baghram, where you'll hopefully put the gear down before you land, and manage to keep the plane on the runway. C-17's might rule......one of these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) So, let's count your hours.......500 Hours during Operation Iraqi Freedom with your feet up and reading Maxim with the autopilot on flying from Turkey into the box and back out. 500 hours flying to and from Operation Enduring Freedom while you're cruising along at FL 330 on the Boulevard Northbound making asinine radio calls while reading a Maxim before you start the 5 minute approach to Baghram, where you'll hopefully put the gear down before you land, and manage to keep the plane on the runway. C-17's might rule......one of these days. Guess you must be an FHM guy? My prediction for this thread now! Edited April 24, 2009 by Butters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Hey guys - GREAT THREAD! Good thing I brought this along...I'll share if anyone else wants some: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toro Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 So, let's count your hours. Everybody chill out. The point is that a fighter - in general - has a lower ASD than a heavy on combat sorties (no, it's nowhere near a 1.4). The original point wasn't about how many bombs he has dropped or people he has killed people, it was about his combat hours. I've flown in variations of two of the four operations he was in and have about half his hours - so relatively the same. No more "my jet is better than yours"...the dick measuring contest is over. Agreed the ceremony was probably a bit much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-15E WSO Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Man Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 seems like a good time for a FOD walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I'm sure there was nothing that needed killing during the duration of that ceremony. Good job, Bagram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAround Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I'm not sure I see it being such a big deal. It honors our heritage and tradition as an armed force to recognize a change in leadership as well as say good bye to the previous commander. His command tour is a 365, not a measly 120 like they used to be. Stop complaining over such small stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Seat Driver Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 The Chief has his sidearm to enforce uniform infractions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarheadBoom Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I'm not sure I see it being such a big deal. It honors our heritage and tradition as an armed force to recognize a change in leadership as well as say good bye to the previous commander. A ceremony that big, in what is supposed to be a combat zone, is two things, and two things only: 1. An ego trip for the CC. 2. A HUGE target. His command tour is a 365, not a measly 120 like they used to be. Should the length of a commander's tour determine the size of the ceremony, how many people should be pulled from their jobs or "free" time to stand in the sun and listen to field-grade ego-stroking, and how many airframes are pulled from the flightline for statics? Even if those aircraft were NMC, I'm sure MX could've been working something on them. Best comment of the entire thread goes to Right Seat Driver. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Form 8 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Next you're going to tell us that the 2-year copilot's 3,000 hours (most of which is "combat time") makes him a better pilot than a 1,000 hour A-10 driver? I had a Moody A-10 guy tell me that doing AR was the most stressful part of his day. Edited April 24, 2009 by Form 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Everybody chill the fuck out. ..... No more "my jet is better than yours"...the dick measuring contest is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 At least they weren't in their service dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 A ceremony that big, in what is supposed to be a combat zone, is two things, and two things only: 1. An ego trip for the CC. 2. A HUGE target. Come on BOOM you are smarter than that, that is not a HUGE target... It is a hardened target! You need to look at the photo more closely.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleRattle Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 It's good to know there were enough bottles of water near the formation in case someone started suffering from heat exhaustion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I remember the girl working the tower a few months ago telling us we couldn't land during quiet hours; this after we supported a TIC and were min fuel. Needless to say, we landed without incident and never heard anymore about our "violation of quiet hours". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinGrunt Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I'm not sure I see it being such a big deal. It honors our heritage and tradition as an armed force to recognize a change in leadership as well as say good bye to the previous commander. His command tour is a 365, not a measly 120 like they used to be. Stop complaining over such small stuff. Dude, I hope it's just that my sarcasm detector is code 3 today, but are you friggin serious?!?!? Screw this "recognition" crap! As was said before, it's MUCH more important to keep killing and NOT be the biggest mortar target in 6 times zones! Holy hell. And "small stuff" my ass - if a single US Soldier dies during this idiotic ceremony, that's on our hands for not providing the max CAS support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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