?s on ADSC (Active Duty Service Commitment)

[Champ Kind]

Can medical issues for the member be spun as "hardship" for them (pain management) or would that be more of a MEB concern? If permanently non-deployable would it be "best interest of the AF" to get rid of someone to make the metrics better?

Are you looking to fly post-AF? If so, would your medical status that keeps you from deploying also DNIF you and affect your ability to stay current or, worse yet, obtain a FAA medical?

[Tonka]

14 hours ago, Champ Kind said:

 

Are you looking to fly post-AF? If so, would your medical status that keeps you from deploying also DNIF you and affect your ability to stay current or, worse yet, obtain a FAA medical?

Would love to fly but I'm also a realist and 20 years of flying has broken me... im not really close to a domicile and the thought of commuting doesnt sound fun to me (yet!) either.

@threeholler- we needed to get out of a bad situation (family was really struggling)... i agree i would probably be out the door if i was in a flying billet, but im in a desk job - out of my community.  Not sure how i "volunteer" to get out to help make the OSD mandate.

[pawnman]

21 hours ago, Tonka said:

Anyone have good advice/examples on what qualifies for "Hardship" and/or "Best interest of the AF"?  

PCS ADSC is ~7 months past 20 years. Probably not looking for much, just a little over a month off... which will move retirement date up ~60 days (ADSC is early in the month and have to retire on the 1st of the month... which effectively adds an additional month to ADSC?) With FY changeover effects (have to use 30 use/lose this FY, before hitting terminal) - will make the transition a whole lot more enjoyable.  

Can medical issues for the member be spun as "hardship" for them (pain management) or would that be more of a MEB concern? If permanently non-deployable would it be "best interest of the AF" to get rid of someone to make the metrics better?

I think the medical issues will cause your separation to take longer.  It would require you to go through a med board, complete treatments, not show improvement, continue to be not-deployable for at least a year, plus the time it takes for all that to get processed through the highly inefficient medical group chain...

[ThreeHoler]

Would love to fly but I'm also a realist and 20 years of flying has broken me... im not really close to a domicile and the thought of commuting doesnt sound fun to me (yet!) either.
@threeholler- we needed to get out of a bad situation (family was really struggling)... i agree i would probably be out the door if i was in a flying billet, but im in a desk job - out of my community.  Not sure how i "volunteer" to get out to help make the OSD mandate.

I would suggest clicking the retire button as soon as you’re 12 months from eligibility.

Different situation but when my buddy didn’t get continuation past 20 they cancelled all his ADSCs and made him retire at 20.

So maybe...they’ll cancel your ADSC and let you retire.

[Tonka]

On 1/3/2019 at 1:03 PM, pawnman said:

I think the medical issues will cause your separation to take longer.  It would require you to go through a med board, complete treatments, not show improvement, continue to be not-deployable for at least a year, plus the time it takes for all that to get processed through the highly inefficient medical group chain...

I'm already on my 3rd RILO, and they keep calling me fit! If I had known the Flight Surgeons would try so hard to keep me in/flying, I would have gone to them much sooner in my career.  I'm really surprised the light bulb hasn't come on for them yet...

On 1/3/2019 at 1:23 PM, ThreeHoler said:

I would suggest clicking the retire button as soon as you’re 12 months from eligibility.

 

I think that is the rub, how and when... 20 years, 20 plus a little less than my ADSC, or 20 years + my ADSC? I believe anything besides the last one will require a "hardship" explanation on the website before I can submit (haven't tried it yet) and I wouldn't want to stay in longer if they deem my medical worthy of further exploration.

[Orbit]

I have a few questions on OCONUS PCS ADSCs.  I know it is normally a 2 year single and 3 year married tour, what happens if you get married right after arriving or even before getting to the new assignment?  Do they force you to extend to 3 years, i've heard a few different things.  Also if you are married and do not want the assignment to last 3 years can you accept an unaccompanied tour even if AFPC wants you there for 3 or do they even care?

Thanks

[brabus]

I don't think they can force you to accept the 3 yr accompanied, but if you choose to do 2 yr unaccompanied the AF won't pay for your wife to move over.  Other considerations are how it may or may not affect weight allowance for HHG shipment, whether you collect OHA or BAH at your wife's CONUS location, live on vs. off base, etc.  Is the assignment location really that terrible you guys don't want to do 3 years?

[Orbit]

25 minutes ago, brabus said:

I don't think they can force you to accept the 3 yr accompanied, but if you choose to do 2 yr unaccompanied the AF won't pay for your wife to move over.  Other considerations are how it may or may not affect weight allowance for HHG shipment, whether you collect OHA or BAH at your wife's CONUS location, live on vs. off base, etc.  Is the assignment location really that terrible you guys don't want to do 3 years?

I don't think it would be that big of a loss of money and that could possibly be a full year further away from that line number.  

[cragspider]

If you get married after you are over there is some paper work for your commander to sign then send to mpf to get the new spouse over there command sponsored. If I remember correctly it may tack on an additional year due to the cost of getting her and stuff there. But if she’s there already or doesn’t need stuff it might be different. Talk to the mpf about it. 

[FLEA]

Realise not being command sponsored has serious drawbacks at some bases. Base clinic may not see your dependents and they may have to go off the economy for health care. Doesn't sound like you need childcare yet but CDCs often require command sponsorship as well as DOD schools. You will need to investigate the immigration laws and stipulations for whatever country you're going to as well. For instance, in Korea your spouse must leave the country every 90 days without a SOFA visa. There are DOD regs that also cover double dipping so be careful about plans to collect OHA and BAH. I believe if your spouse stays more than 90 days with you, her residence needs to be updated to mirror yours and she will lose stateside BAH. In Korea at least, I have heard them nail people on this in the past.

Don't want to tell you what to do just do your homework before you make the decision. Also, I agree that 1 year of building a line number might not be worth it. Is it a non flying overseas? You will probably never get the access to travel ever again like you will get OCONUS. There is something to be said for just hopping in a car and driving to the Amalfi coast for the weekend or grabbing $125 tickets to Thailand for a week. 

[kaputt]

Okay, so I had a FEB as a B Course student coming up on about two and a half years ago now. Unfortunately I am one of the "lucky" ones who was recommended to be re-trained into a new airframe by both the FEB and Convening Authority, only to have it overturned by the 4 star...

That whole process took pretty much a whole year, and I PCS'd to my new non-rated assignment in February 2018. I've put a lot of introspection into my current situation, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm ready to explore moving on with my life and from the Air Force, or at least the active duty Air Force. Options I am considering are everything from straight separation, separate to the Reserves (IMA), or even an Inter-Service transfer. 

BUT, a hang-up I'm running into is my UPT ADSC. It's still on the books and won't run out until June 2026. I've reached out to AFPC help desk on this issues and they have been pretty unhelpful. The answers I have gotten have ranged from "the Air Force has you until that ADSC runs out because you completed the training" to "all you have to do is apply to separate and they'll review on a case by case". From my own research it seems that I can apply to separate under Miscellaneous reasons, but I don't know if I need to lead turn that with anything else if I have ADSC remaining? I'd like to think since it was the Air Force's decision to remove me from flying status (I fought like hell to stay on), that they would not also force me to stay in for 7 more years, in a career I never planned to be in. But who knows? And beyond that I have zero clue where to begin with requesting an IST with ADSC remaining.

Apologize for the long post, but has anyone dealt with a situation like this before or known someone who has? I know its a pretty narrow set of circumstances, but there is a lot of experience on here so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction. Appreciate it! 

[di1630]

Okay, so I had a FEB as a B Course student coming up on about two and a half years ago now. Unfortunately I am one of the "lucky" ones who was recommended to be re-trained into a new airframe by both the FEB and Convening Authority, only to have it overturned by the 4 star...
That whole process took pretty much a whole year, and I PCS'd to my new non-rated assignment in February 2018. I've put a lot of introspection into my current situation, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm ready to explore moving on with my life and from the Air Force, or at least the active duty Air Force. Options I am considering are everything from straight separation, separate to the Reserves (IMA), or even an Inter-Service transfer. 
BUT, a hang-up I'm running into is my UPT ADSC. It's still on the books and won't run out until June 2026. I've reached out to AFPC help desk on this issues and they have been pretty unhelpful. The answers I have gotten have ranged from "the Air Force has you until that ADSC runs out because you completed the training" to "all you have to do is apply to separate and they'll review on a case by case". From my own research it seems that I can apply to separate under Miscellaneous reasons, but I don't know if I need to lead turn that with anything else if I have ADSC remaining? I'd like to think since it was the Air Force's decision to remove me from flying status (I fought like hell to stay on), that they would not also force me to stay in for 7 more years, in a career I never planned to be in. But who knows? And beyond that I have zero clue where to begin with requesting an IST with ADSC remaining.
Apologize for the long post, but has anyone dealt with a situation like this before or known someone who has? I know its a pretty narrow set of circumstances, but there is a lot of experience on here so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction. Appreciate it! 

Dude, do you have wings? Are you you T-1 or T-38 trained? The reason I ask s your options will vary during this pilot shortage on whether you washed out of RPA’s and got nowhere else to go (apologies RPA guys) or washed from a F-16 FTU and trying to get into a crew airframe.

If you have wings still, I’d think you have some options including guard/reserve.




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[kaputt]

2 hours ago, di1630 said:

Dude, do you have wings? Are you you T-1 or T-38 trained? The reason I ask s your options will vary during this pilot shortage on whether you washed out of RPA’s and got nowhere else to go (apologies RPA guys) or washed from a F-16 FTU and trying to get into a crew airframe.

If you have wings still, I’d think you have some options including guard/reserve.




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Still have my wings and T-38 trained. Didn’t make it through B-1 training, and my issue was in academics and not flying related. Not sure if that’s better or worse? Was recommend to go to a non-weaponized crew aircraft by the FEB and Convening authority, but that was overturned by 4 star. My official record says “Permanent Disqualification from Aviation Service”. Back shortly after I got them memo from the 4 star I spoke with a friend who is in a guard RPA unit and he said even they couldn’t take me with that on my record. Since that I haven’t looked further into Guard options because I figured ones with actual aircraft would give the same answer. 

I’ve continued flying on my own and currently working on my CFI. Got some good encouragement from civilian aviation companies that the FEB would not hinder me much. Also recently found out I may have options with the Army, Coast Guard, and NOAA Corps. Just don’t know what to do about my UPT ADSC. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by kaputt

[HossHarris]

You got thru upt and got wings. If the af doesn’t want to release you from your Adsc (out of the kindness of their hearts) then you’re fucked. 

Be the best finance/LRS officer you can be and try to unfuck some things in those worlds. 

[IDALPHA]

Did you intentionally tube the B course because you didnt “deserve” a bomber? Should’ve flunked PRP instead. 

[Guest]

How do you fail out of FTU for academics? Maybe we’re soft in the c-17, but I heard of a PIQ stud who failed his IRC, and it didn’t even get annotated on his form 8.


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[pawnman]

54 minutes ago, IDALPHA said:

Did you intentionally tube the B course because you didnt “deserve” a bomber? Should’ve flunked PRP instead. 

Funny, but there's no PRP in the B-1

[Skitzo]

How do you fail out of FTU for academics? Maybe we’re soft in the c-17, but I heard of a PIQ stud who failed his IRC, and it didn’t even get annotated on his form 8.


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Minor discrepancy for you!

I would also like to know how you fail out for academics?


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[HeloDude]

22 hours ago, HossHarris said:

You got thru upt and got wings. If the af doesn’t want to release you from your Adsc (out of the kindness of their hearts) then you’re fucked. 

Be the best finance/LRS officer you can be and try to unfuck some things in those worlds. 

This

[ViperStud]

+1 to what HeloDude and Hoss said. 

Significant details are being left out. A - washed out during slackademics, WTFO?!? B - non-concurrence for a washout that allegedly had nothing to do with safety of flight or stick/rudder skills. I’ve seen non-concurrence only once; there were significant mitigating factors and it was a BS personal vendetta. 

There’s more to this story. 

[HeloDude]

15 hours ago, ViperStud said:

There’s more to this story. 

Always is.

Besides, if a dude can't make it through academics (which is entirely under your own control), then I don't want that dude in any other airframe.  So either we need the rest of the storie or accept the fact that the AF got this one right.

[pilotguy]

They changed the ADSC rule right. No more 3 year for cross training? Just the 2 year PCS??

thinking about going from C-5 to C-40...

[ColoradoAviator]

They changed the ADSC rule right. No more 3 year for cross training? Just the 2 year PCS??
thinking about going from C-5 to C-40...

Correct.

[Boomer6]

On 5/26/2019 at 1:26 AM, HeloDude said:

Always is.

Besides, if a dude can't make it through academics (which is entirely under your own control), then I don't want that dude in any other airframe.  So either we need the rest of the storie or accept the fact that the AF got this one right.

Conscientious objector maybe?

[ViperStud]

39 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

Conscientious objector maybe?

Honestly doesn’t matter. Back to the question at hand - lots of rated dudes have been grounded for medical reasons and they’ve had to serve their 10. Buddy of mine got grounded for migraines, recategorized to PA and still served out his UPT ADSC. Once you have your wings, you owe the time. If they won’t negate an ADSC for a medical event, why would they do it for a guy who fvcked it away in FTU academics?  

Kaputt, that may seem harsh but I’m just being blunt. Embrace something outside of flying and try to excel at it; that’ll be the foundation of your new career.  Pursue any path you can to get out ASAP, but you’re likely in til 2026.