B2 Crashes in Guam

[FallingOsh]

I think I would call that something a little more serious than a writeoff.

[Clayton Bigsby]

Someone has balls. Not only taking the pic out the aft hatch of a tanker. But posting them on the net. If big blue wanted pictures to be released, I am sure he would have done it.

I agree, but Aviation Week had some taken by a tourist overflying Andersen on the way in to Agana Int'l.

Still, these pics were a WHOLE LOT CLOSER. Not anything I'd be posting anywhere...

[M2]

This came out today...interesting...

Cheers! M2

B-2 Crash Cause: Water intrusion in air-data sensors is being pegged as the cause of the B-2 bomber crash during takeoff Feb. 23 from Andersen AFB, Guam, according to a top Air Force official. The skin-flush sensors, which collect information about air pressure and density, much like a pitot tube on a conventional aircraft, provide angle-of-attack and yaw data to the B-2's computerized flight control system. After heavy, lashing rains, water got into the sensors and caused them to give faulty readings to the flight control system, the official said. As a result, the aircraft's computers determined--based on the bogus data--that the aircraft was in an improper attitude and corrected automatically. The B-2 made a sudden pitch-up and yaw that was not commanded by the pilot. The aircraft quickly stalled, became unrecoverable, and the crew of two ejected. The aircraft was a total loss. The crash led to a 53-day safety pause during which there were no B-2 flights. Air Combat Command has already made adjustments to the flight control systems to prevent further accidents and is looking at ways to seal the sensors better. A full accident investigation report is expected soon.

[pawnman]

Does this mean B-2s won't be all-wx anymore?

[Guest thefranchise]

i guess its time to unretire the one from the AF Museum

[LJ Driver]

As a pilot and an engineer, I would think that for $2B a copy the B-2 would have an override switch that Joe could throw and then fly the old fashioned way. WTF.

[Hacker]

As a pilot and an engineer, I would think that for $2B a copy the B-2 would have an override switch that Joe could throw and then fly the old fashioned way. WTF.

It's not like the B-2 was a copy of the YB-49 painted black. No flight control computer = no flying straight and level. An override switch wouldn't do anything except speed up the process of the airplane impacting the dirt.

[Riddller]

Thank god.

There was a good guy in charge of that squadron, and I would have hated to see his career take a nose dive for someone else screwing up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but because it was something wrong with the design and never seen before, nothing adverse should happen to the leadership, right?

[Bluto]

Thank god.

There was a good guy in charge of that squadron, and I would have hated to see his career take a nose dive for someone else screwing up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but because it was something wrong with the design and never seen before, nothing adverse should happen to the leadership, right?

You'll have to read the entire safety report.

[StoleIt]

When the B-2 first came out wasn't it not allowed to fly into precip? I thought there was something about its RAM paint or something that didn't like water. I know lately its all weather but still when it was new I could have sworn hearing about it being VFR only or something...hmm off to Google I go...

[hindsight2020]

As a pilot and an engineer, I would think that for $2B a copy the B-2 would have an override switch that Joe could throw and then fly the old fashioned way. WTF.

'2'

As an engineer in my formative education I know where you are coming from. I understand the concept of constraints within design and accept where the B-2 falls within that spectrum of consideration, but I consider the oportunity cost of a whole expensive a$$ UFO as a little high for the luxury of a fancy-schmancy pitot static system interface, presumably for the benefit of low observability contentions. If you got to babysit that epoxy-wonder THAT much so it doesn't in effect come unglued on you, it does eat into the capabilities expected of said airframe; again constraints within design, but also constratins operationally, and this current state of affairs doesn't make the B-2 as mean and lean as was advertised when it comes to battle and environmental realities, which mind you have been here since the Trench war.

This is not an issue of FLCS and lack of pilot override, this is an extreme case of queertrons taking the pilot out of the equation, and thats BS. Slapping a pitot tube and a mechanical AOA vane (the irony...) would have inhibited said accident from ever becoming reality. I'm conjecturing as to the impact on RCS that move would have, but I'm willing to bet it's not greater than or equal to the cost of producing and employing the whole airplane.

In the end this is part of the growing pains the AF is and will continue to endure when it comes to the maintenance of composite-based aircraft, which the Air Force is still at an apprentice level (and unfortunately fails to recognize it, if for its own sake). Similar issues will arise with the F-22 and 35, mark my words. I'm confident they'll get a handle on the sensor issue, but the solution will be 'throw more glue and cure time at it', which is rather unimpressive. This is where I think the AF could do a better job moving forward. Then again I'm just a biased Buff driver, my airspeed indicator goes out all the time and I just look out the front window: "wings still level, yep, no buffeting, yep, VVI, yep, hey e-dub hold the fajitas till we get the fuel flows to fly this thing...", granted a pair of ragheads holding rabbit ears in a hill in Afghanistan can see me doing touch and go's in Louisiana but I digress. TC

[JarheadBoom]

Water intrusion in air-data sensors is being pegged as the cause of the B-2 bomber crash during takeoff Feb. 23 from Andersen AFB, Guam, according to a top Air Force official. The skin-flush sensors, which collect information about air pressure and density, much like a pitot tube on a conventional aircraft, provide angle-of-attack and yaw data to the B-2's computerized flight control system. After heavy, lashing rains, water got into the sensors and caused them to give faulty readings to the flight control system

The aircraft mechanic in me is dumbfounded to think that the pitot-static-port covers on a $1+B fly-by-wire national asset weren't installed for the rain... unless of course the heavy rain started during engine start or taxi (I don't know what the WX was at the time of the mishap). Must've been a really nasty downpour to overwhelm the capability of the pitot-static system drains to accumulate the water and keep it out of the system.

hindsight2020,

I initially thought you were nuts for suggesting a pitot tube and AOA vane on a LO airframe... but then after thinking about it a bit more, it could be done with an installation like an ADG (Air-Driven Generator) or RAT (Ram Air Turbine), where a lever in the cockpit drops a small platform out of the fuselage and into the airflow with the tube & vane on it. When the computers detect the deployment of the "emergency airspeed & AOA", they could switch over to the inputs from the tube & vane.

[Hacker]

Amazing to think that with the thousands of engineers at different companies who worked for over a decade designing the B-2, just two ordinary guys on a web forum with engineering degrees and no knowledge of how the airplane was designed or how it works were able to come up with a solution to their act, which was obviously in the street.

[sky_king]

With out the computer assisting the pilot, that airplane would be impossible to fly. The B-2 take hundreds, if not thousands, of inputs a second in determining exactly where to position the flight controls. I don't know about you, but I could probably react to about 5 inputs a second. Also, the B-2 was designed for a specific job... fly somewhere, be invisible, blow up bad guys, fly away. It's easy to make an airplane that can drop bombs. The B-52 has been doing it forever. The difficulty is making the airplane stealthy. That means standard pitot tubes won't work (they reflect RADAR), and it can't fly in rain (rain degrades the fragile paint). Of course the engineers could make the airplane more robust by making it all weather and stable enough to hand fly buy then you'd just have a $2,000,000,000 B-52.

[Bluto]

Holy shit, the jet can fly in rain.

[Oldman04]

If you don't know what you are talking about STFU!

[Guest Mike Brogan]

If you don't know what you are talking about STFU!

WTF are you talking about?

[BlackJetDriver]

If you don't know what you are talking about STFU!

??? I think Bluto and I are very qualified (Form 8s) to speak knowledgeable about the jet. That being said, nothing else needs to be said. The jet flies fine, rain or not.

BJD

[Guest Mike Brogan]

??? I think Bluto and I are very qualified (Form 8s) to speak knowledgeable about the jet. That being said, nothing else needs to be said. The jet flies fine, rain or not.

BJD

...and internet forums wouldn't be much fun if people weren't allowed to speculate or otherwise talk out of their asses.

[Bluto]

...and internet forums wouldn't be much fun if people weren't allowed to speculate or otherwise talk out of their asses.

There should be no speculation, find your safety officer and read the f'ing report.

[JarheadBoom]

Amazing to think that with the thousands of engineers at different companies who worked for over a decade designing the B-2, just two ordinary guys on a web forum with engineering degrees and no knowledge of how the airplane was designed or how it works were able to come up with a solution to their act, which was obviously in the street.

Thanks for the compliment, Hacker... but I have no engineering degree. Or any degree, for that matter. I'm just an aviation fanatic with an A&P license and 15+ years of mil. and civ. aircraft maintenance and ops experience.

[Guest Mike Brogan]

There should be no speculation, find your safety officer and read the f'ing report.

I should be a billionaire, but since I joined the military, that's probably not going to happen. Besides, my FSO works in a completely different building...on the THIRD floor...no elevator! F' that! Speculating is much more fun!

By the way, welcome to the world wide web.

Edited May 25, 2008 by Mike Brogan

[Sim]

http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/checksixx/3289/

Video of it going down.

[Guest Boom]

They punched out right in time!

[Guest Fuse]

Some other vids at the crash investigation site: http://www.acc.af.mil/accspecialreports/b-...gationboard.asp