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Negative. There's a reason AFPC recently sent out an email telling O-5s with a STRD of 2003 or earlier (i.e. does not have a short tour, for the most part) that they are vulnerable. AFPC is not going to send an 18 year O-5 on a 365 who just got back on a 365 two years ago vs sending an 18 year O-5 who just got back from a 2 month deployment a year ago but has never done a short. tour.

Looking for some up to date gouge, was offered an attractive non-flying short tour, claiming off-base oceanside condos. Inputs? Leadership climate?

The BUFF guys in Guam had already been extended three months before this newest order came down. My knowledge of 36-2110 is rusty but I’m hoping those dudes/dudettes got short tour credit for that. might not help you when you are in an ops sq, but could prove useful down the road in your career

There are 3 big dates that big blue tracks: your time TDY overseas, your last short tour, your last long tour. Any time you get a short tour, it resets both your TDY time overseas and last short tour to the day you got back. If you don't do a short tour, you get credit for your TDY time (like ALL the B-52 guys going to Guam). If you do a long tour, all 3 reset to the day you got back. The reason you don't just add together days is that the more senior you get, the FAR more likely you are to deploy for ANY time home. Imagine a guy who crosses over to the LRO side of the house and only has a single tour under his belt. He could easily be eligible for back-to-back-to-back-to-back tours in his field just because LROs have deployed more and it's "his turn". The problems in the LRO career field are similar to the CE field: Helping the Army out because they don't have the personnel because they didn't plan for the long term. Many of our folks in the support fields are tired of being a crutch because the Army can't get its act together.

Slight thread derailment. I noticed in 36-2110 that both STRD and ODSD play a part in Short Tour selection. I was always under the impression that Short Tours were based solely on STRD. Any idea how ODSD plays into Short Tours? I have an Overseas long tour which puts my ODSD 6 years closer to present day than my STRD, so I'm hoping that gives me a little breathing room.

Short tour stuff, especially trying to learn from the AFIs, can get confusing quickly. Read relevant posts here and look around on the AFPC website. Assignments to Korea are pretty much all remote short tours. But if you get assigned to Osan, you could get command sponsorship for your spouse (permission to bring your family over). The 'standard' remote tour is one year but you can extend in six month or one year increments. However, if you extend all the way to three years, you will not get credit for a short tour. Depending on your airframe or job, you will probably have a short tour at some point in your career, so many volunteer in order to choose when/where they go. However, realize that if you volunteer straight out of training (can be a good idea), you may get voluntold for a second tour down the road. The number of volunteers you will find at a given short tour will depend greatly on how good or bad of a deal it is. Flying assignment in Korea - probably 100% volunteers. Coffee bitch at the Died - probably not.

I thought the 365 list was exactly this - based solely on short-tour return date, which starts with the date you entered the service until you get a short tour. And it moves forward one day for every day you spend deployed. Is that not how 365s are decided?

The days OCONUS TDY should be on the virtual MPF under duty history. It keeps track of all the TDYs you've ever been on and the tracking system seems to have gotten better since DTS took over all TDYs. Short tour credit is not as simple as hit 365 days, get one point. We're not back under the old system of 300 days in 18 months. Does not have to be consecutive, but if you hit 300 days within 18 months, you should get a/another short tour credit and your STRD will be reset to when you arrived back at home station. As to the question about guys with short tour credit getting hit up for a non-vol 365, I haven't personally heard of that yet. All the guys I know who have been non-vol'd did not have short tour credit.

Yea, seen that before but the way our unit deploys it would be very difficult to get that. We fall just short, and therefore will be prime targets for a short tour after doing 2 on, 3 off for 6-9 years in a row. We're gonna have dudes gone an average of 220 in 18 months but you'd pretty much have to extend twice in order to get to 300, so from our perspective the rules are BS. It works out to being gone 40% of the time, year after year. You have to be gone either 54% of the time in an 18 month period or 49% of the time over a 36 month period to get a non-consecutive short tour; we'd all agree that's a pretty stout amount of time away from the fam. Whereas the dude who does 1 consecutive short tour in, say a 5 year period, is gone 10% of the time but is sitting pretty in the eyes of big blue. YMMV depending on how you go TDY/deploy. I'm sure for that dude that does one 185 day tour in 10 years, or even every 5 years, the rules are great. IMHO, when the short tour list come up and there's a bill to pay, it should be total days deployed instead of all these ridiculous rules.

Follow up question, how is a 365 an ITDY (Indeterminate length TDY) when the tour length is known (365 days)? Pretty sure there's a system in place for that...It's a remote, short tour, PCS.

Would someone mind expanding on shout tours and short tour credit, i.e. what are they and what benefits are there to doing them?

From AFI 36-2110 http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2110/afi36-2110.pdf 5.5.2. For Officers: If there are not enough volunteers, AFPC will use modified short tour selection rules. Non Volunteers are prioritized based on number of short tours, short tour return date (STRD) and overseas duty selection date (ODSD). Officers serving overseas long tours may be used as a resource to fill these taskings. Officers must have sufficient time remaining on their current tour (before DEROS) to be selected as a non-volunteer, i.e. 30- days upon return from deployment to out-process their respective unit. Officers not selected for promotion that have a mandatory DOS established and are otherwise not eligible for 3 day option (see Figure 5.2) are not eligible for selection as a non-volunteer unless they have at least 7 months retainability following the expected deployment return date.

Word on the street is that AFPC is raising the short tour requirement just for situations like that. I keep hearing different numbers (215 days, 250 days, etc.) but with the standard AF deployment finally being raised to 179 days, AFPC is tired of people staying a few extra days to get short tour credit. If you're in an AF billet they usually kicked you out prior to 180 days but the other services (and especially NATO) couldn't care less about AF policies so they're usually OK with people staying a few days later to get credit. A couple of my friends have done this and while I'm happy for them, I'm pissed that the system can be gamed like that. Short tours are huge in the LRO world with the expectation that we'll do approx 6 in our careers (including 365s). To hear that people are getting short tour credit despite not doing anything close to a short tour is annoying because it just screws everyone else over. Glad to see that AFPC will be fixing this in the near future...

I asked AFPC what can I do next because I don't feel challenged enough in my DO position. Everything just feels really slow. I was offered Staff, C-12s to Saudi, or Edwards. They noted I have 3 short tours already and asked if I was married. I am single going on 19 years. The functional didn't specify why, but I can't crossflow to another MWS. I'm on a 3 year stab tour, but AFPC said I can leave after 2 years. I just need my non rated CC's blessing. Figure I would ask her in a few months. AFPC needs a response by Jan 2020.

Anyone logged short tour and long tour credit at the same time? I ask because IPR @ CHS is saying that even if you do 300 days TDY in 18 months, if you've also logged 365 in the last 3 years you only get a long tour. I really hope they're wrong.....wouldn't that be the same as telling someone returning from a 365 that they don't get a short tour?

Yes, I am very familiar with the verbiage in 36-2110 (one becomes intimately familiar with this reg when they've just been schwacked with a 365, trust me.) And what you just posted makes my point exactly. To me, this sentence "based on number of short tours, short tour return date (STRD) and overseas duty selection date (ODSD)" implies that the ODSD is actually a discriminator of equal consequence as compared to the short tour. This is NOT the case. You can have an ODSD of YESTERDAY and it won't matter if you have 0 short tours and your STRD is older than everybody else's. Its all in the interpretation, and unfortunately, the boss and I both had it wrong until AFPC was kind enough to explain.

A gem in my email: "A change to the join spouse assignment policy has been approved allowing mil-to-mil couples to serve together at Osan AB, Korea, effective 31 March 2018. This program has been approved for 36-monhts and implementation status will be reviewed in March 2020. Because of limiting factors with MilPDS, follow-on policy implications and changing join spouse intent codes in the system, implementation will be by exception until the system is updated for normal operations." Cool...if mil-mil couples wanted to get their short tours done at the same time...and the same location...sounds like a good deal. "This change in policy is only for the military couples; dependents are still not authorized to accompany the Airmen to Osan. Each Airman will be required to live in separate unaccompanied quarters; however, they will receive short tour credit and still be eligible for follow-on consideration." Aaaaaand that's where the AF goes and fucks it six ways from Tuesday.

I recall being told at one time it all had to do with your short tour return date. So the guy who has 364 days over seas and the guy who has 185 days are equal in the eyes of big blue if they returned on the same date. The only time actual deployment days count is when you don't have a short tour. Your days overseas are tacked onto your EAD date if you never have had a short tour or are tacked onto your previous short tour return date.

Perhaps they should get away from scheduling people right up to 179 days (there is a reason they want 179. Make it 150 and be done with it! Perhaps leadership should have thought of that BEFORE going to 6 month rotations. The problem lies with leadership wanting to push the envelope and planning poorly. The guy who does a 365 gets short tour credit, but so does the guy who does 182 days. It doesn't matter in between. I have a word for you: jealousy. These folks ARE doing a short tour, as defined by the regulations. It doesn't screw ANYONE else at all. As for the ULN switcheroo to invalidate your short tour, BS! It has nothing to do with what ULN you are assigned to. It has everything to do with "consecutive days deployed". You should be gold for getting short tour credit.

Has anyone recently finished a short tour? I am about to finish and have heard that it's taking 45 days for the short tour to reflect on people's records. Any insight or advice on speeding that up? Would suck to finish a short tour only to get picked off for a 365 because the shoes hadn't finished updating my records.

Plenty of tanker pilots got short tour credit this way at the Deid. Oh really? Enlighten me. I'm not really even sure what you're trying to say here. Lots of people won't swim in the ocean because of the risk of sharks -- it's irrational. People citing 365s as the reason they're getting out just aren't being rational, just like people who have a fear of flying because sometimes planes crash. They're getting out because they're sick of leadership, low pay, the hollow force...or the ops tempo...., and the airlines are hiring. But they're much less likely to be tasked with a 365 now than they were 5-6 years ago when they were in their first assignment. So, that just seems like an irrational fear to me.

You must not be up to date on how short tour credit works in modern times. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My point is some of you sound like a bunch millennial idiots. The number of deployed billets has dropped in unison with the drawdown of forces in the region. People listing 365s as the main reason they’re getting out have a much, much smaller chance of deploying on a 365 than they did 5 years ago. You’re more likely to get your short tour by deploying with your airlift unit, or sitting at the Deid with your tanker than from a non-vol 365. Ops tempo issues? Fair. You wanted fewer 365? Fair. But quit using 365s as an issue. It simply isn’t the issue you make it out to be.

Yes having a short tour in the bank is good money. Especially if you're prior E, or get passed over. Don't confuse deployments with 365s. Having a recent short tour return date has nothing to do with you getting picked up for a good deal 179. But it will save you from a short tour (not many for 17 drivers in my day) or a 365 (seem to be growing all the time).

I am a Hand and passed over IPZ for Lt Col thanks to Pentagon generals who flat out said they couldn't give me a DP or high strat...because I was deployed. No joke. We had a 50% Hand promotion rate this year. I was on the command list as a major-select but was unmarried and was approached by the assignments team (non-rated) to see if I would volunteer since the two guys at the top of the non-vol list were good with families including one with a child in the Exceptional Family Member Program...or so they said. (I was nowhere on the list as I'd done a short tour 2 years before.) It fit my interests and goals at the time as long as it didn't damage my career. I was promised by the general in charge of my career field that he would take care of me for promotion and would seems me to a large squadron command after the program. Reality? I ended up sending my PRF to 4 different people. My civilian rater completely checked out because she was moving. Senior rater checked out because he was retiring and was polishing his resume. They left or items from my promotion packet and am meeting the SSB. One of my friends was a pilot, a wing exec and was a non-vol. She's now separated, went Palace Chase and is flying for the airlines. I'm polishing hip my resume and am thankfully in a career field that is also lucrative on the outside and am considering all options. Yes, they are non-volling top performers. Yes, it does kill your career (lost command, OPRs and strats). If you wasn't to get promoted: Rule #1: Don't take one for the USAF team. Rule #2: Refer to Rule #1. That being said, I freaking love the job. Yes, it's freaking dangerous, and I've had close calls the last month. You do really get to make an impact on combat ops by solving key issues impacting ANA and ANP participation on coalition ops. Would I do it again? I don't know. I've got some great memories and love the job and the NATO troops I'm deployed with...but it's also derailed my career. I was hoping to retire as an O-6 and now I'll be lucky if I ever make O-5...If I can tolerate the USAF another 5 years with job opportunities well into the six figures in my field on the outside, similar to the pilots on here. Don't do it. The USAF isn't taking care of their Hands. If we don't get a DP, we're screwed, and does anyone on here actually trust senior leaders in the USAF? Don't be a sucker. I was.