brabus

At minimum, why doesn't wash out rate rise 20% then? Or are you guys "behind the scenes" unable to wash people out because the bobs won't let you?

Vipers have the highest number of remotes out of any AF flying community...maybe A-10s are equal at this point with their drawdown (percentage-wise). I know guys who have avoided those, but the vast majority of dudes who do 2+ assignments in the Viper will see Korea, many see it twice when they go back to be a DO or CC. But, that's not to scare anyone, Korea was a blast and one of the best times of my life...that I never want to do again. However, I hear Osan is pretty much a "normal" assignment at this point, and even Kunsan has wives living there (not that way when I was there). So, I don't think it's such a bad thing. 2-3 years on a non-remote. Google the bases, there's a bunch. A lot of Viper dudes have transitioned to the F-35 and that continues to be a likely place to end up. You have to do well, they are by no means taking the average guy at this point - looking at your #1/2 guy on the VML who goes...as a general statement.

Flying fighters (F-16 for me) is awesome. I've done incredible things I would never had the opportunity to do anywhere else. The flying part: Flying A-B is nothing more than a means to an end...the end being tactically employing the aircraft. Flying the jet is easy, employing it well is difficult. If you want to fly around the world and stay in 69 countries before your first assignment is up, this is not the place. If you want to have "chill" time while flying, fighters are not what you're looking for. That said, I have flown all over this world (for a fighter guy anyways), had countless badass TDYs, and employed weapons in the best (i.e. TDYs) and worst parts of this world. The squadron camaraderie, even under the iron fist of the past few years, is second to none. Squadron life: Can vary a lot depending on leadership, as I'm sure the same is true in just about every walk of life. I have been fortunate to have great leadership, so my general experiences have been very positive. I know guys who were/are miserable because they have shitty leadership. Luck and timing matters. In the CAF, I'd say the average guy works 12 hrs day, 5 days a week. It's not uncommon to come in on the weekend to do 2-6 hrs of mission planning for a Mon sortie (because everyone was too hammered or didn't give a shit on Fri afternoon after academics and pilot meetings). However, that's personal choice; dudes could get it done on Fri and have the whole weekend off. You're expected to work your ass off on the tactical side to be a good fighter pilot, but there is still all of the BS that has to get done. You will have a lot to balance, but it is doable and the reward of flying the mission is worth it...at least for a while. If you go to other assignments such as teach B-Course, test, etc. life can ease up a bit and you're not necessarily working 60+ hr weeks...those are good "break for the family" assignments. Family life: It seems in general we are not on the road nearly as much has the AMC/AFSOC bros. But, depending on what's going on the squadron, those 12+ hr days can lead to a lot of missed dinners with the family, etc. There was about a 4 month period (no TDY, no deployment) where I didn't see my first kid 5 days a week because I left for work before he woke up and came home after he went to bed...I made the weekend family time. Overall, in my time flying fighters, I've been gone roughly 50% of the time (TDYs or deployed). Some guys hit more or less, but I'd say 50% is about the average. Overall for my family personally, we prefer longer time away with less frequency. Other communities do less time away, but far more frequently. That may work out better for other's family situation. Overall, I absolutely recommend dudes look into fighters. I think the best analogy I can think of is it's like playing team sports - very competitive (in a good way), you're very close with the bros (work and leisure), and you fly the jet/work together to win. Or you lose, but you learn and get better so when the big game kicks off, you're ready. It's a constant challenge that I personally would be bored without.

My gut feeling is that would be a huge problem. I have friends who sat outside the vault for 6+ months because their brother owned property in South America or they had lived in China at one point as a kid (as in YEARS before even entering the military). When they ask the question, "do you have any interests in a foreign country?" he has to answer yes, big red flag for the investigators, even though it's something as innocent as flying for Korean Air. It may not be insurmountable, but it almost certainly will be a massive headache and at best case. I think if he wants both airlines and guard, he needs to stick with an American company.

"fast pass" gets you shot down. When there's a SA-6+ threat, that becomes the priority. The dudes on the ground will have to live with organic fires until SAM threat suppressed/destroyed (assuming it can't be avoided). We have defined "high threat" CAS for years as SA-6/8/AAA (maybe 15). That's hard enough; the idea we'll do effective CAS (within a reasonable ALR) in anything beyond that is borderline ludicrous at the current state. These threats have to be neutralized before we can honestly say CAS is an option. Stealth is not the savior in this problem either.

I'm sure there will be plenty of places who nobody will go to when there isn't the mad rush/availability isn't an issue at the good ones. Can't say it enough times, Memphis is legit - they're already super affordable/great price right now during the ATP rush, so could be even a greater savings a few months after the rush. That said, even if they didn't lower their prices, it's still a great deal and completely worth it compared to either shitty places or perhaps good places, but ones that charge way too much.

Fly an RPA instead of sit SOF/Top 3, why not. Its surprising this hasn't happened yet. I doubt the burn out would happen if it was only a few days per month and theres still real flying to be had. Too good of a solution, the ANG might, but AD will continue to insist on taking the worst possible COAs.

Heard from more than person Bob is a terrible DPE - if anyone goes there, reschedule checkrides until you don't have Bob.

Fat Amy = F-35...they're the fat chick, they know it, so they call themselves out on it before you can. I actually heard it first from an F-35 guy, so you know it's legit when they jokingly call themselves that!

Below is purely based on past discussions/ideas, hopefully someone else on here is close to the program and can confirm/deny and/or add info... A major intent is to maintain the CAS/Sandy culture in the AF; we do not want said culture and the dedication to said missions to die when the Hawg goes away (whenever that is). Think of it as the AF's idea of maintaining a "CAS/Sandy heart beat" and not letting it shrivel to "just another mission set" the Viper, Strike or Fat Amy does. Additional plans are to move the Viper FAC(A) school house there from Luke, as well as start up a Sandy school house (whenever the mission officially transfers from A-10 to F-X). Always a potential for A-29 type aircraft to someday be added to the inventory, and this group would be an ideal location. Perhaps in the sunset of the Hawg, we'll see only 1-2 squadrons remaining and they'll be moved to Nellis to be a part of this group until the end...maybe. In addition to the air side, this will be a central place for the JTAC community to maintain/develop their side of the mission in an environment that is focused all on that, and not like it is currently where a lot of JTACs are holding signs on the side of the road saying, "will go TDY to random ranges for controls." That's the very general idea of it - hopefully someone else has more current, in depth knowledge to pass on.

Know a few guys who bailed at 18 yrs - they're doing great and enjoying life. Money isn't everything, job/life satisfaction matters a lot more to many of us.

I've done what Nunya said on about 6-9 TDYs since this "contract lodging" thing started. In every case, I got the standard non-A (base lodging did not book me at a different hotel...can't imagine any AF lodging putting any amount of effort into "helping" you by booking rooms elsewhere on your behalf). Instead of using any of the hotel options in DTS, I made reservations myself at where I wanted to stay, ensured the room rate did not go beyond the max lodging allowed for the area, and filed my voucher for max lodging rate/night, attached non-A...done. If I'm reading your post correctly, you already have a non-A letter - this is all a non-issue; don't need to talk to lodging again. By the way, there's a provision in the JTR that says you can make reservations for "groups" outside of DTS. Additionally, even if you were to make a reservation only for yourself (i.e. not a group), the JTR says you can NEVER be punished in form of non payment AND it "at worst" recommends your CC write you a strongly worded letter (i.e. nothing will happen unless you have the worst SQ/CC in the AF). Don't have time to look the reference up, but it's in there. I do a shitload of TDY travel, so this comes from a lot of experience.

I'm with Pawnman - don't care where you're at for 6 months, if you're gone that long, you better be accomplishing something real. Gone 6 months for "training" makes the separation from family/home extra lame. I hope the B-1 bros don't have to do what the B-52 dudes did...which is "deploy" to Guam consistently for 6 months at a time. Guam is awesome in TDY doses, not for spending your third 6 month rotation at away from family.

Having a ULN and Space-R are not synonymous. Logically it would seem that way, but the AF doesn't use logic. Space-R is everyone who doesn't have a ULN. Ops tested several times recently.

I've only heard the term "space required" used around a deployed AOR....essentially the same thing as "space available" anywhere else. They're both "standy by" in airline speak, you show 69 hours before your flight, and every passenger terminal has a different SOP regarding required paperwork, stamps, etc. Commercial is a million times better if that's an option.

You are so full of shit. FHPs are NOT healthy, they're terrible. Our jets are broke, B-Course syllabi have been slashed multiple times with too much training kicked to a broken/underfunded CAF (not the FTU bros' fault, it's management's fault) and every year the new guy is less prepared for combat because he gets shafted on quality flying training. Us "old" guys can hang on because we have enough experience to fall back on; luckily when we were young everything hadn't completely imploded yet. I have seen entire squadrons who I would rate as below average - it's not the bros' fault, its the fact the squadron is full of young, inexperienced dudes who are trying their best, but big AF refuses to give them the tools required to succeed. WO's and the couple "real" IPs in the squadron slave to fight the uphill battle and get their guys ready, but even their 75 hr work weeks aren't enough because again, management has taken so much from them in terms of ability to provide adequate training. Those same squadrons are hemorrhaging experience at an astronomical rate for all the reasons mentioned elsewhere. Not an RPA guy, but I think it's fairly safe to say very few of them give a shit about leading the "community of the future." You managers might think that, but it's not true. Home more? Maybe they don't deploy to the extent that many of us do, but they're living in not very desirable locations, many doing a job they were involuntarily forced into, and from what I've read here, they do some fairly rough work schedules. RPAs provide a lot of capability in specific situations, but just because they do doesn't mean you have happy people operating them. These are statements of fact, not emotion. I cannot comprehend why you and other senior leadership refuse to see these simple facts and listen to your people who are the ones in the trenches. You don't like to think so, but the reality is your O-5 and below people out there in the CAF, MAF, AFSOC have much higher SA than you do on the day to day realities. That's not an insult, it's just how it is...some day I might be the old guy sitting somewhere, but if that day comes, I will rely on the guys below me to shoot me straight and provide recommendations...and I won't scoff them. That's a trait of good leadership I have seen growing up in this AF. You guys have a job to do which involves thinking on a strategic level. But it is extremely naive and a complete failure of leadership to ignore everything you get from the tactical level. Your flippant attitude towards anyone "below you" and how "we" could not possibly have any idea on what's good/bad in the AF because we don't have stars or whatever your metric for "credibility," is the primary reason we're all telling you to off and getting out. Many good dudes at the tactical level would stay and help solve the problems, but its clear senior leadership doesn't give a shit and will never listen to us, even when we're screaming the answer in your ear. You're right on one thing, there will most likely be a continuous supply of 20 yrs olds ready to sign anything to fly. But that makes this already hollow force just become worse and worse until some day we just hope we can keep up with the ability of Sudan's AF. Hyperbole a bit, but the point is valid.

Shack. It's not about money for a lot of people, it's about the horrendous level of bullshit/terrible family QoL that makes guys run. I know too many dudes who "would never fly for the airlines," and we're not driven there by the money, but ultimately by how the Air Force had mismanaged the shit out of their "work life," which directly impacted their "family life" in a negative way. It shouldn't be hard to kill bullshit deployments (especially 365s), it shouldn't be hard to knock off the queep/taskers that have zero utility to anyone, and it shouldn't be difficult to see that taking care of people on a personal level is extremely important. Keep people happy and they won't leave...it's simple.

At this point, forget anything new. Build the same raptor so we have more than 183 or whatever were at now. Even that plan is most likely a bridge too far at this point. Nice of them to talk about reniging on one of the dumbest procurement moves in decades, but I'm pessimistic these talks will ever lead to meaningful action.

PM sent.

Herk, thanks for the good info. Is it feasible for the load to jump outside real quick and do a control check with the pilots, then hop back in, shut the door, and go? I know you can't see all of the control surfaces/assess correct and full movement from the cockpit of every airplane, but it seems the way around that in a larger aircraft would be have the load, flying crew chief, etc. go outside and watch real quick as the pilots check every direction. Obviously this whole process is much easier for guys who can see all their flight controls from the cockpit. I remember years ago when the T-38 crashed at CBM, killed both pilots, all due to f'd up flight controls that could have been caught in a pre-takeoff check. Not long ago a civilian jet (Citation, etc.) crashed on takeoff and killed everyone because they didn't check the control lock was not installed (it was). There's at least one story of flight control cables being installed incorrectly in an Eagle; don't remember if the pilot survived or not. Bottom line, everyone please learn from these tragic events - I wish I could say this mishap was the first time a flight control related issue could have been found with a check prior to T/O, but it's not. It does not matter what you fly, put this in your habit patterns somewhere; it's smart and could save your life.

Take the emotions out of this. Nobody is saying these guys were idiots. We all have survived multiple screw ups that could very well had ended the other way; we all screw up. Two of my good friends weren't idiots idiots either, were great dudes and above average pilots, but in the end, complacency kills. I sure as shit have made many a mistake and missed a flight control check (and many other things), but it was due to task saturation/distraction, not due to "the T.O. doesn't say I have to, so I won't" or "it was good last flight, nothing could possibly happen/a part fail in between flights." I think its a dangerous mindset to say, "what could have possibly happened since I last looked?" or "it's not in the checklist, so it." That is absolutely the wrong approach to teach people (especially young, impressionable people). This was not one of those unidentified, obscure things nobody thought of until a mishap occurred; it is absolutely something that applies to every aircraft, and again, should be taught to everyone who learns to fly, military or civilian. This is not shitting on people, it is highlighting the extreme importance of the "simple things." Scoff simple things (consciously or subconsciously) and it can end very badly...there's tons of accident reports that point to that, and as you mentioned, we're all vulnerable 100% of the time to making simple mistakes that end tragically.

Whether in a 152, viper, or C-5, it makes sense to do a flight control check EVERY time before taking the runway for takeoff. Who cares what a T.O. does or does not say, or how many times that day you've already done it. This should be flying airplanes 101 taught when getting your private or at IFS. Frankly I'm surprised to hear it is/was common practice to not do this. Regardless of what you fly, take the 6-9 sec to do one prior to rolling onto the runway. Its basic airmanship and obviously could very well save yours and maybe others lives.

They will deal sometimes; it happens. FWIW, after talking to random bros across the world this week, there were multiple Viper assignments this VML (a few Koreas, Luke, Holloman, Nellis, TFI Guard). That's just the few I talked to, so while VMLs can be shitty and others great, sometimes it's not as terrible as it may seem from one corner of the world. Sometimes there are shitty leaders who don't fight for their people either, and the "little guys" gets ed because of it. All that to say, if you're a WIC bound guy, they will find a way to keep you around in the community because you're going to be #1 or #2 on your base's VML rack and stack. If you think you're WIC material, but the rack and stack/assignment doesn't reflect that, I suggest asking for honest feedback from your patches at a minimum. They won't bullshit you; and at minimum it'll provide you a good vector for your future as a pilot, etc.

He hasnt heard the update, but its not a daily conversation topic, so not surprising he hasnt. I'm with you on how much it sucks they fill PIT before they help out test thats nearing 50% manned in vipers. Not a joke, and I'm sure there are more. I would talk to sq/cc and ask him to talk to OG. The OG can call the porch and inquire/push for you to get one of the 7 day opt vipers, if he feels you should be pushed for. I had a buddy years ago who had an IFF assisnment for months and one day it turned into a viper...because so many 7 day opts occured. He didnt even ask to get it changed. Have you expressed interest in WIC to your WO, SQ/CC? I suggest you ask both for honest feedback to have an accurate view of your current flying and officer abilities. Sometimes that feedback may be very different than your self assessment. Not saying it is, but its worth finding out. Even if you dont hear what you want, use it as a way to focus how specifically to better yourself on the pilot and officer side.

There's also a 7 day opt'd Luke out there, and I'm sure several more similar 7 day opts exist. That's not happening; your bro has old, inaccurate gouge. I understand your overall general point and agree VMLs can widely differ with everyone getting a Viper on one and only a couple dudes getting a Viper on the next (thanks to A1 failures non-stop), but in the end, it is a valid statement that if an individual is recognized as a WIC probable, there will be a way to keep that guy in the Viper, including VML slips. Only shenanigans to the level of TAMI make that a sometimes false statement. Your standard VML pendulum swing does not. But, that does not mean said individuals cannot "bloom later" and go to WIC as an "older dude" in the ARC. It's possible and is done here and there.