brabus

@Pooter Nobody is arguing two pilots shouldn’t be there given the sortie duration (unless we want to take the AI route as replacement for the 2nd guy…definitely could be viable one day, not that I love the idea). Any argument I made is that two pilots aren’t needed IF we took sortie duration out of the mix. It’s been done multiple times given current day tech (fighter specific) - the continuous result is not in the WSO’s favor. Not speaking to large crew aircraft like B-1 or B-52. This whole thing comes down to emotion; they’re simply not needed on current and future tech. Just as airline pilots will not be needed at all some day (we just all hope it’s not in our careers, but it absolutely is coming).

@disgruntledemployee Sure, never said anything is impossible. But I’ve been around enough to feel pretty confident DEVGRU dudes didn’t execute people on live TV (e.g. the JOC) - that’s WaPo’s claim. And if that did happen, then by all means let’s have them in court; I’m not against that.

The only reason the EX has a backseat is due to the relative ease/cost of using the already existent tooling, etc. It’s not because any non-WSOs thought there was a WSO necessity. That said, writing on the wall says the AF may go the way of the Navy/USMC - “single seat” and “dual seat” squadrons with the same basic aircraft type. It’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out while enjoying my tray table.

Never had a positive OSI experience - I feel like every single one I’ve interacted with, even in an unofficial capacity, is a total slime ball just looking to nail anybody and everybody, truth be damned. Do not trust OSI, ever.

@Lord Ratner Yeah you did fuck up, but damn dude, what a bunch of bullshit to go through that was way beyond reasonable or warranted. Glad you got through it. Too many stories along those lines in the mil.

What do you mean? Do you think a fighter is incapable of flying for a long time with a nuke on board? I’m genuinely confused at this statement.

So you drank alcohol with the Es? Welcome to every guard squadron. WTF.

@fire4effect Lots of “credible” sources said the laptop was fake news. Lots of “credible” sources backed Russiagate. I’ve been around the block quite a bit in the terrorist killing world (as have many on here), and I’m calling complete bullshit on the whole thing. If a whole JOC watched DEVGRU execute a couple unarmed dudes who didn’t pose a threat at all, then we’ll be seeing war crimes charges and trials commencing soon. That hypothetical scenario is not something anyone (especially an E/young O) would walk away from unmolested (in the legal sense). Personally, I’ve been involved in four separate occasions where someone “credible” said something happened that was a complete lie. Thankfully every time there was data to prove them a liar and nobody got screwed.

@TheLaughingCow Consider not caring about any of this, start making connections in the guard and working on your airline apps, laugh all the way to the bank in a year or so. Obviously continue to care about flight performance/the mission/the bros, just not about the rat race.

@disgruntledemployee Well a WaPo reporter claims DEVGRU was ordered to execute unarmed people (and did), so it must be true. You actually believe this bullshit?

It’s the Barry Wood of personal rifles!

2 pilots on the B-21, sure (primarily due to mission length); point on that specific airplane is if you’re going to have two dudes, there’s no good reason to have a WSO over a pilot (unless you’re going to make financial/airline-related arguments). If the B-21 wasn’t flying long missions (hypothetically), there would be zero reason for a second dude.

So what single seat 5th gen guys do. I’m not trying to be a dick, but technology has changed substantially and those things no longer require a second person. Same way technology will continue to advance and some day we won’t even have one person in a machine (at mass scale). The idea of more is better (2 vs 1 person) is outdated for future CAF and AFGSC assets. It makes things worse (vs. enhancing) 95% of the time, given current and near term technology (not to mention further out future tech). The WSO/EWO/CSO was absolutely required in several airframes (and still is in some current aircraft), driven by the tech of their time. We’re well beyond that time in history for any newer/future production CAF/AFGSC aircraft.

For any young readers seeing this, I will say a lot depends on the community you go to, the average leadership in that community, etc etc. We all complain about the same things (aircrew have a masters degree in sport bitching), but in the end I don’t personally know a single pilot who has left the AF with extreme dissatisfaction. Obviously it happens, but I do not think it’s the norm. I think it’s fairly normal to be glad you’re getting out at that specific point in life, but don’t mistake that for equating to “it was all terrible, I hated every minute, and it was totally not worth my time.” I’m excited to be done soon and fully transition to”phase 2” of life, but in spite of the BS that drives me crazy, the last ~20 years has been phenomenal overall and I have no ragrets.

That sucks, but also only you can control your attitude. Go forward with life choosing a positive outlook and find something that gives you purpose/sense of accomplishment. The airlines are great for pay/benefits/QOL, but you will get zero feelings of accomplishment or satisfaction out of it. Your AF career should not define the rest of your life.

It’s far worse than that. We have medical people making decisions that directly affect the CAF, for example. The amount of shoe clerks with zero combat experience on the staff is probably 75%. It’s so bad.

@SuperWSO Whats the benefit of a WSO - lower production cost and they can’t run to the airlines every hiring boom? Serious question, because financial reasons are the only thing I can think of. And this is not a who’s a more capable human argument, just saying instead of sending Bob to UNT, you send him to UPT. Aircraft like the B-1 and F-15E were clearly designed with WSO in mind and thus require them, no argument there. New aircraft have no need to be designed to “require” a WSO. With AI and other advancements, I’d actually say just make the 21 single seat. Why do you even need two pilots? Assumption being AI flies the transit, can refuel, etc. while pilot naps, takes a dump, etc.

I think we’ve mostly beat the stupid out of ACC on the emitter front. I’ve been relatively happy the last 1.5 years or so on that subject. Lots of improvement to be had, but at least we’ve stopped buying useless garbage and are finally procuring the decent 80% solution instead of holding out for the incredibly expensive and marginally useful 85% solution. Now if we could just give every JTE to WSEP for a CAF-wide A-G turkey shoot, that’d be great.

@Boomer6 Got a cell, but no response yet. I’ll take anything you got.

Of course it’s money, still pretty sad how nearly 20 years have passed since I was first intro’d to the concept and all we have to show for it is what you see today.

Yep, LVC is another great-in-theory thing that is way behind where it should be. Doesn’t mean it’s not something worthwhile to continue pursuing, just very disappointing how slow it has developed.

From a CAF perspective, we should be 50/50 flights vs. sims…when the sims are where they need to be capes-wise (seems like a pipe dream, they haven’t been in my 20 yrs). There’s so much training nowadays that generally is not feasible in live fly (unless we’re doing it for real).

Exactly. I can read between the lines, it’s clear what all those in the video are implying, which is bullshit on their parts. But, no way you successfully convict someone of sedition based on the argument they were implying something. Facts matter, not feelings and emotions (at least in theory). So good job admin, you got butt hurt and went on an emotionally-charged witch hunt without thinking it through. Dumbasses.

For sure. I think this whole thing is stupid, unless they truly have him dead to rites on something, but I doubt that’s the case. This is mostly a losing move on the Trump admins part, at least I think so with the current info I’ve seen.

That is shitty. Certainly do not wish that on anyone, including Kelly.