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I stayed at the Turnberry last year. I've been stopping in Prestwick to/from deployments since 2002. We just tell the FBO when and how many people, and they make the arrangements. Last year we arrived right after a snow/ice storm that shut most of the major freeways for days. All of the hotels in Ayre (our usual location) and Glasgow were booked. The Turnberry, an hour drive away, had enthusiastically agreed to give us the government rate. The hotel itself was absolutely incredible and the staff thanked us profusely for our service. The bartender let us sample some of the local Scotch whiskeys. It was too cold for golf, but we toured the course which was an old WWII pilot training base, and some of the old runways/taxiways still exist on the course. The hotel called in a bagpiper to play us out the door as we departed for the sandbox at 5am. It was one of the best deployment sendoffs ever. There was nothing to it other than it was the only place with rooms available at the government rate, and the FBO was proud to have found a place that they thought we would enjoy. The media and politicians are idiots.

When I went through T-6's 16 some odd years ago, my class had 5 dudes with CPL/IFR/CFII ratings with 400-1,000 hours of flight time (to include myself) and we were ranked 1 thru 5 in the class. Coincidence? Definitely not, BUT, and this is a big BUT, we were all willing to forget a lot of what life was like in an a GA aircraft flying under FAR's and use our seasoned basic airmanship to our advantage (and not have a chip on the shoulder acting like we knew it all). Being able to free up brain cells from having to worry about flying straight and level allowed us to learn new things more quickly. By the time some of the less experienced dudes started to "get it", it was too late. I felt I had a huge advantage when it came to the instrument phase, because most of that phase contained the same principles as instrument flying in a 172, but things just happened much faster. The playing field starts to even out once you get to the T-1 or T-38. Overall, dudes/dudets with more flight time, in theory, should be more confident in any new airplane. I used my CFII experience to my advantage outside the airplane and took one of my bros in the class having a hard time during instruments to the cockpit trainer a few times to help him with basic course intercepts, holding patterns and approaches. My advice to anyone with any extensive flying experience going to UPT is 1. Never pass up the opportunity to keep your mouth shut even if you know something from your prior experience (don't act like a know-it-all). 2. Don't be an individual with your experience and help your bro's. 3. Don't get cocky, because the margin of getting into a humbling experience is probably a bit tighter than you are use to.

One former UPT IP opinion: your post speaks more to the state of the UPT instructor corps than it does to challenge “why” the RSU pattern is a part of primary flight training. You are 100% correct, the RSU is the only way to support the number of sorties generated at a UPT base. What you should consider is that it also enables students to get much-needed reps which they might not get in a “real world” situation. If there’s one common theme from this thread, it’s that the syllabus is taking away too many reps already. Also, if we want to keep solos, you gotta keep the RSU pattern. The RSU will take way better care of that student than A1C Snuffy tower controller ever will. I think it’s interesting that you suggest pattern “intricacies” should be reserved for IP knowledge and not expected of students, but then go on to say that IPs can’t find the ground references anyway. If that’s where the IP cadre is at, easy to understand why the students are struggling. I agree that Stan shouldn’t hook a ride for it, but I would wager that the IP’s need some more CT. The IPs need to be good enough to communicate to Stan that while the RSU pattern isn’t “real,” it’s not about training them for real world pattern work, that is what phase III is for. The RSU pattern is simply about teaching them to fly an airplane. It forces you into a congested and SA-tasking environment, while making you look outside, understand your position with reference to the earth, clear for other aircraft, think critically, talk on the radio, maintain a cross check, understand and fly a contract, and, oh yeah...land the plane. That pattern will teach a dude way more than droning in the MOA ever will. Yes, you are sacrificing “reality” for some RSU rules, but that pattern is where the foundation is laid to make good pilots. If a dude can hack it in that pattern with 11 other planes , then you can build that student up to be a good product for phase III. Taking him single ship to the local civ field will not develop the skills that the RSU pattern will. Though, that has a time and a place too, the IP has to know when to use it. If all the IPs can muster to teach is, “this isn’t real and it’s a bunch of nonsense,” I would argue that you’re missing out on the real training objective, and a quality training opportunity. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

^This right here. We spend far too much time teaching students to fly in a local UPT pattern that has way more rules and is far more saturated than anything they're ever going to see in the real world. The rules let us cope with a huge traffic load in the pattern, but the intricacies of local pattern-isms should be the realm of IP knowledge, not expected of students. We need less local pattern nonsense and more off station sorties to get them used to the real world. Not to call anyone out, but I've seen countless students hook checkrides for not being able to find a specific VFR entry ground reference at the aux field or not being able to clear the pattern for the 11 other airplanes doing god knows what. Guess what, half of the IPs don't know where VFR entry is either. It's all a titanic waste of time and poor training in my opinion.

Former IP here as well and I am with you on a lot of these points. I was being a little hyperbolic saying it's all a waste of time. It isn't. There is real value in the RSU pattern and you hit the nail on the head. It is fantastic for ensuring the safety of solos, and it is great for reps. But you and I also know sometimes it's horrible for reps. With 8+ people in the pattern, no one is getting anything productive done except a sh!t ton of clearing and some practice with saturated radios. And if you're the IP who lets their student ask for a straight in.. lord have mercy on your soul at the next roll call. My point was that there is this thing that happens at UPT bases where people get overly focused on localisms to the detriment of big picture aviation training. I totally agree that it's valuable for students to learn how to operate aircraft in an area with local restrictions. But when you have 5 different statuses and associated procedures for each runway direction at your base and aux field, we are getting into the realm of the absurd. We're talking 30+ inflight guide pages! It is not an exaggeration to say that some THE most complicated local pattern, departure, and recovery procedures in the entire Air Force exist at pilot training bases. UPT is a year long (for now) and if we're serious about still producing a good product, IPs need to stop wasting time hammering their students over a mountain of localisms, and start taking them off station as much as possible. Which leads me to my next point: my comment was absolutely meant to be an indictment of *some* of the current IP force. Of course some IPs are out there doing great work, but PIT syllabi are being gutted just like UPT. New IPs have very little idea of what to do from a teaching standpoint, and they have to spend time learning the local procedures just like a student does. But remember, IPs have a lot more time and reps to get good at a local area than the students do. I've noticed as IPs get better at their local area, some of them tend to place more emphasis on it and hold students to an unrealistic standard of knowledge about its intricacies. This is where I'm arguing that time and emphasis is better spent elsewhere.

"If you're not ready at the perch, breakout. Except if you're at any airfield on earth that's not called Columbus, Vance, Sheppard, or Laughlin. Then just perch late or whenever tower tells you to, and try not to get drug in." Source: AFMAN 11-248 Chapter 6, Section 9 Paragraph 6.9.6.9.69

Huge agreement w above poster. Last week at a major class c airport the student turned crosswind and told me he was going to “outside downwind”. Also students try to breakout at KAFW if they are past the “perch point” which doesn’t exist at a non UPT base. Doesn’t help that their IPs let the SPs fly o&b sorties to the checkride base and don’t make them go somewhere challenging/unfamiliar/high&hot

Except you pretty much are, and you haven’t learned lesson #1 yet: never pass up the opportunity to STFU. You haven’t gotten to lost LT status yet.

It can go both ways. Sometimes they have bad habits or are so ingrained in their ways that it’s a detriment. Other times it manifests as above average air sense, better patterns, better comms, etc. I think part of it is attitude and an individual’s ability to start from square one and accept that the Air Force is very particular about how it wants its pilots to fly.

"We care how things look, not how things are" is far from a UPT-centric problem. That is a core AF competency, unfortunately, that is going to take a generation to un-screw.

Shut up and color. Take your lumps and learn. If you quibble, and it is quibbling, you may win the battle...but you may also lose the war. And of course, the obvious answer, don’t fuck up the pattern and you won’t face this issue.

I can personally vouch for the accuracy of that book since I'm in it. I personally thought more pages should have been dedicated to the outstanding work done by their T-38 Class Commander.

#Trump2020. I’d fill out my ballot now if they’d let me.

While I agree parts of the RSU pattern are a necessary evil, it is taken to a ridiculous level. When someone is hooked for turning half a section line too early. We do have an outside downwind kind of thing at DM, but it’s requested from tower if we can’t pull closed. Solo doesn’t mean they are by themselves. I see no reason why the majority of formation isn’t flown solo. They could have a few instrument rides dual and a few solo as well. Aft is the learning channel and instruction can be done by the flight lead. At FTU the student’s IP flies chase during transition (when not practicing formation) until they get a form 8. This could easily be applied to UPT. If it’s form they always have a chase, if it’s instruments/trans it can be a mix of both. If we want to make pilots we need to treat them like pilots, not hook them for being 2/10ths of a mile off the outside downwind track or perching slightly late.

The ones who have routinely put me into Mildenhall when no billeting or contract billeting exists? The ones that planned me back there 24 hours later when the winds were out of limits and then gave us an alternate that wouldn’t accept us? The ones that think taking off at 0001z and flying backside of the clock to an island destination is safe? I wouldn’t feel too bad for them.

Yeah, Hope's not a plan though. The reason why it doesn't seem like a "big deal" right now is because for the last two years we've had the old timers within reach of an Active Duty retirement, volunteer for these grenades in order to hit the check o the month club a few years earlier. As a consequence, we're losing that demographic quicker than we otherwise would, which accelerates the exposure of the types of folks who don't have that option available to them. So, if you're within 4 years of a 20 year letter I can see why this is all Chicken little hyperbole. But for folks closer to a decade left, it's a much different picture, and that requires nuance, not whitewashing. 5/6 units (one is exempted) , 2 taskers a year, 2 units a year more or less. So that's a tap every other FY for most units within the 340th. For guys with 10 years to go, it's a significant threat, especially when you account for turnover at the unit as guys get nervous and 1288/IMA/IRR early. I No. 20 is MSD for O-4. They're not retaining any non-promotes beyond 20. And on the O-5 promo as a TR in AFRC, that's a 0.0% chance of promotion without ACSC. Not a State secret either, it's fairly common knowledge around here. Caveat emptor.

I’m just saying that no one gives a fuck you’re not right out of high school. Get over yourself and stfu snap BREAK BREAK agree w top two posters.

I’ve noticed that to be a big issue with UPT graduates. They lack confidence in their own abilities because they are rarely solo. As well as UPT teaches them to fly a syllabus, not be a pilot. They keep doing the same things that don’t work for them instead of what does because “that’s how the 3-3 says to do it.” The minute anything changes some guys will freeze up and short circuit. VFR is non existent in UPT and confuses those who only know AF flying. Ive heard IFF guys talk about how students can’t even fly the pattern. Well, the first time a student is flying the overhead pattern, or landing in general, at a different airport shouldn’t be IFF. I think students should always be in the front seat during instruments and XC and be required to do VFR patterns and visuals at foreign airports. T-1s do much better in that side of the house than 38s. We need to work more to make pilots once they have the basic aviating down. Hell, all of our student sorties are solo in the A-10 and they only get 2 EP sims before they fly. After ~20 hours of foundational instruction solos could easily be integrated more often into the UPT syllabus.

You’ve already figured out how to be good at pilot training as a cadet. The Air Force could really value your insight. Please help your instructors with their rack and stack when you get to Sheppard.

I’ve seen guys like you come thru UPT. Usually they have problems. Chip on shoulder, holier than thou, “real world experience”. Good luck kid. Youre in ROTC so focus on graduating. And I’m sure you’ll type some snarky reply back that you’d never dare to say to my face in a UPT flight room. That’s fine. Get it out while you can young man.

My neck...my back...my pu*** and my crack -khia

What if you can’t remember all the names/nationalities of the mothers?

Shack. There’s A LOT of cynical sport bitching on here. Not saying there isn’t an element of truth to some of it, but young guys should absolutely pursue flying in the military. It will most likely be an awesome experience and a 1000% better way to spend your 20s flying than slugging through regionals.

I'm baffled why any new hopeful pilots even consider the Air Force after visiting this site.