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Dude, the problem is you keep posting about how great the Academy is compared to other schools. It's a good school, but it is nowhere near top 20. It is only ranked amongst schools without graduate degree programs...not really a huge pool there. Again, I've got no problem with Academy grads, however, a lot of the ones I have thought were douchebags seemed to think they graduated from MIT because they took a beginner's astro class as a management major. https://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

If you've never heard of Holy Cross or Oberlin outside of basketball you know f all about higher education in America. I and every cadet and graduate fervently wish it were like UCSB--pretty decent engineering programs by the way. Your definition of what makes a good school is interesting, Rose-Hulman is roundly considered one of the best engineering schools in the country, but fails to meet your standards because their grad school is miniscule--focus is on undergrad education, not research. You do realize schools without large research programs tend to focus on teaching, right? Having a grad school has nothing to do with quality of undergraduate education, a grad school (good or bad) usually means undergrad courses are taught by grad students rather than, I don't know, teachers. No idea if the Academy produces better officers, but I've never seen any evidence of it. As many others have already stated, I've seen awesome and horrible officers from all commissioning sources. But academically it is outstanding. Your assessment flies in the face of accreditation boards and school rankings, including those more rigorous that US News. Clearly, you have no idea what you're talking about...but don't let that stop you.

I didn't really read that as offensive to Olds...more of a lamentation. You fellas sure are sensitive.

Nope, he's not really being a retard: pointing out faulty logic. I have no logical connection to make, but I would speculate that you could have gotten an excellent education an one of any of a thousand other universities in this country, but at a fraction of the unit cost. Likewise, I agree with FNL135, that those Rhodes Scholars could have excelled elsewhere as well. Again, at a fraction of the cost. (Just about he logical fallacy. I actually don't harbor Service Academy hate. Keep 'em. Ditch 'em. Meh: barely care.)

Update: after a conversation with the IG, and some calls made by them and my MPS to AFPC, AFPC has begrudginly agreed to process my application while I'm deployed. They recommend that I re-apply as they thought it would look fishy if they re-opened my closed application (no sh!t-it was fishy when you guys refused to process it, not in accordance with YOUR regs). So since I'm deployed until May, I have to wait until 180 days from my requested separation date before I can re-apply. For those of you getting close to a deployment, I would apply for PC now and hope your leadership doesn't send you while it's pending, because as I'm learning, they're not going to send you home from deployment so you can separate. The crappy thing is, the reg still says you can get sent TDY/deployed while it's pending, so... Also, for the guys (aircrew) currently deployed looking to submit an application, if you're getting any pushback, I recommend going to the IG. AFPC isn't following their own regs and the IG is probably the only way you can get them to do their job. AFPC basically told my MPS that they didn't want to set a precedent by "deigning" to process my application while I'm deployed. side note: If I followed my regs like AFPC, I wouldn't have wings anymore.

Because mustache regs were EXACTLY what Gen Welsh was talking about...

"If they don't believe their parents, maybe America's teens will listen to the Pentagon's top general." Anyone with kids stopped reading right there.

As a Junior at USAFA, I'd like to give my perspective. I do not consider Academy graduates to be superior to ROTC/OTS counterparts nor do many of my classmates have that opinion. I came to USAFA for intrinsic reasons and will not reference my commissioning source when I graduate because performance on operational duty is what matters. Many people are saying the Academy "sucks" and this cynicism exists with cadets who merely try to skid by. We have the chance to party it up at local colleges such as Boulder, CSU, or DU on the weekends, but we can't drink in our dorms. We do have a bar which many cadets occupy until 2300. If you're a high performer, there are some pretty cool opportunities. I was able to get over 30 glider sorties and planning to head to the aeroclub every other day next semester. I'm scheduled for Basic Parachuting senior year. Last summer I did language immersion training for three weeks and spent another three weeks at an Air Force base touring the various career fields. This upcoming summer, I will be conducting research at an intelligence agency. Next fall semester, I will be on a semester abroad to a civilian university, yet I will still commission in May 2015 with the AFSC that I want. We also have a pre-IFS course that cadets can take for free along with everything else. All that military stuff we do is a small price to pay for what we have here. I don't know if there is a quality difference between the commissioning sources or if the Academy is worth it, but I know it has pretty neat perks for its students.

I don't give a ###### how many Rhodes Scholars USAFA produces…. I'd rather have military leaders. How many 4 star generals have been Rhodes Scholars? I'd rather not have Stephen Hawking as my MAJCOM/CC.

ROTC costs 6-9 times more than OTS. Shut it down.

You should ask the next one you meet, I'm sure they'll tell you.

Surprised? https://www.gq.com/entertainment/celebrities/201312/least-influential-people-2013#slide=11

With a war, civ casualties making the news, a security agreement we want signed, rocket attacks, etc - it's good to see the idiotic leadership out here is spending brain bytes in the right place. He was fine til the last line. This chief actually had some street cred, but in one line exposes himself as an insecure pilot-hating shoe clerk. You're right light switch dick, Robin Olds is rolling over in his grave looking at what the AF has become. To: XXX EOG/ALL Subject: Mustaches For the men.... I typically do not use the "EOG all" distro as a means to communicate, but feel compelled to on this one. I am confident most (if not all) of you know what 36-2903 has to say about mustaches, but in case you didn't...the attached should provide clarity. We (the EOG) have received some negative attention on this one as of late, thus my engagement. If you're staying at BASE X please comply w/ the standards; if you're going to BASE Y...best to start off on the right foot. It's not BGen Olds' AF anymore.... V/r, Chief XXXXXXX, CMSgt, USAF Superintendent, XXX Expeditionary Operations Group

Are you surprised? These are the same people that blamed the -22 pilot for going hypoxic and crashing (later disputed by an IG report).

or stay in and have the chance to go to clovis or altus.

This. I can't wait to hear the collective "fuck this" when I see 11Xs on the list as RIF-eligible AFSCs.

A couple of things: 1. From the article: "The agent told him he was there only as a witness." and "The academy teaches cadets not to question superiors, Thomas said. When OSI asked him to do things, he thought he had little choice." I didn't go to the Academy but I'm guessing a typical college kid don't really know his legal options in this circumstance (and probably scared shitless) especially he was supposedly just a "witness." What's missing from the article is whether or not he was reprimanded for being caught at the party. If so, was he assigned an ADC? An ADC would have been able to advise him on his rights and help him prepare for the "interview." 2. Let's not forget Eric Thomas is not the first nor the only informant at the Academy. It's BS what they did to Vianca Torres, who was also supposedly just a "witness" but coerced into cooperating and then kicked out for an offense unrelated to the original incident. The problem here is not the Academy leadership but rather the cadets who are cowards for not going to the IG right away and do the right thing...

Or, just get rid of that shithole altogether.

You'd be stunned at the deployed environment today. Most find it hard to find time for their nightly salsa dancing lessons between the CGOC bowling excursions and mosque tours downtown.

As much as I hate to perpetuate the division of the athlete vs. normal cadet, there is something to be said of the potential decrease in quality of cadet that comes from trying to win NCAA games. This link from the Denver Post reports on discussions at USAFA on making it a 5 year college for some cases. It's easy to read between the lines and see that they are talking about athletes, otherwise they wouldn't have interviewed the AD or football coach. So many things at that place revolve around athletics. The place now has three gyms, one for normal cadets, one for intercollegiates, and a separate one for football players. If they would donate the money to support actual military training (shooting, field craft, flying training) then the cynicism and suck factor of that place would decrease by 69%. Football makes money and it's all that the leadership sees. The physical, fiscal, and time requirements to be a NCAA D-1 football athlete are so high now that the service academies should not be investing the amount of time or money in. Devote it to the other 70% of cadets and make it a better institution, not a better show of ESPN Ocho. Rant off

I'm trying to figure out why people are saying ASU, FSU, UW etc are a better option. My takeaway from reading the article is that Animal House could be filmed at USAFA if they ever want to film it again. Good times.

Wasn’t expecting such a harsh response from a tongue and cheek reply to a previous post. It appears the haters are going to hate, and nothing will change your opinion… which is fine. AND I will freely admit, there have been ROTC Rhode Scholars (most from the Ivy Leagues). I will add (I think many of us agree) USAFA is an excellent academic institution. It consistently ranks in the top 15 in the country. The idea that there are hundreds just like it is absurd. One of the best aspects of the Academy is you can get an excellent education, play Division I sports, and for the most part (if medically qualified) get handed a ticket to UPT upon graduation. I argue this diversity of people flowing into the pilot ranks is the benefit that many are asking for with regard to pilot production. It is true though, the Air Force could care less where a pilot goes for the degree. In my UPT class, I had a classmate (Reservist) who was prior enlisted, ended up getting a BS degree from Touro. Did OTS and now is an Air Force pilot. I guess we could go this route instead. I want to address what some people say about the non-pilots at USAFA. To be honest, I’m not sure why people went through that bullshit for a degree they could have gotten at a civilian university. However, the Air Force was lucky to get people such as the president of US Air and other graduates (some who make seven figures and look at airline pay as lunch money) for the five years they served. The facts are there just are not enough slots at the ROTC dets at the top 14 schools to accommodate all these guys/gals if the Air Force Academy did not exist. There are some people who are attracted to a high quality education and the military gets tremendous value out of their human capital.

O man, harsh words! Sounds like someone is bitter about not being accepted into the Academy... j/k Anyways, you asked for some evidence. Here you go: Check out https://www.rhodesscholar.org/winners/college-and-university-winners Here are the cliff notes: Air Force Academy: 37 Uni of Wisconsin: 30 ASU: 5 FSU: 5 ERAU: 0 TUI: 0 However, we're no West Point (89) or Annapolis (46) but 37 is not so bad for a school with only 4,000 students and coming up on our 56th graduating class. Besides that, I know many on BO are looking for the airlines. Check out who the President of US Air is... yup, Academy grad and not that old. https://www.usairways.com/en-US/aboutus/pressroom/executivebios.html

Stop being a retard. The number of Rhodes Scholars is an indication of the quality of the education. One indication. I hated the fucking place, but I received an excellent education there.

I see where you are coming from, but the fallacy goes both ways. The same thing can be said about about pilot training. There are other avenues of training a pilot that are much cheaper than pilot than UPT. But the Air Force has control over the product. While there are outliers, the Air Force has much more control over the Academy product than an ROTC product. I'm not saying it's better or not, but they have more control and they like that. And there aren't thousands of colleges out there academically as good as the Academy. Still burn it down.