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Rep Hines after viewing today said “You have two individuals in clear distress without any means of locomotion, with a destroyed vessel, who are killed by the United States.” If true, seems like that’d be pretty cut and dry based on the DoW law of war manual:
- Today
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OK, that is more a reasonable take, apologies for not understanding that initially. The 2001 AUMF has been very broadly applied to target terrorist without regard for location. Historically the current strikes are fairly inline with precedence. Now that said, I completely see the logic in Congress wanting to update this to rein it in. Additionally in accordance with the WPA, the president always has the authority to conduct mil operations when “a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces". Certainly can be debated if throwing drugs at the American population is an “attack upon the US.” Keep in mind China is very involved in this from a supporting role, so I can absolutely see the argument that this is an attack, albeit not in the “traditional sense” with bombs or missiles. Bottom line, a lot nuance and gray area with valid perspectives on both sides of the debate, and therefore it is not currently a “black and white, crosses the line” situation. -
The argument is the entire concept of striking drug runners by calling them terrorists, is over the line. And yes, Presidents doing this kind of thing isn't new. The war powers resolution became a thing for a reason. -
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Why all the secrecy about the pilot? -
@Swizzle Never stopped in the CAF. Still see pretty solid names, though obvious “super non-pc” ones aren’t going to stick. Still holding out hope in the 11th hour of my career that I won’t see VBF erased from the board!
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Rand Paul is full of hot air. From everything I’ve seen, including the first strike video, there wasn’t anything that remotely even touched the line. It went down like thousands of strikes we’ve conducted for decades. Anybody who’s actually done this shit knows this is a total nothing burger. And if we want to get political, I can think of several strikes I’ve seen under Obama that would apparently have our cities on fire by leftist had they known about them (except they wouldn’t care since it was Obama and not Trump). And FWIW, nothing illegal about those strikes either, but the optics are a billion times worse than this boat.
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Revival....Could've borrowed a line/name from Letterkenny™: Anita Charity Chastity Noah ...list goes on Break, break: so naming ceremonies still happening? PC namings at least? Haven't seen them for YEARS. And now that callsign patches are back...well..game on -
I didn't miss your point; I just don't agree with it. The system is not Thomas Hobbes' State of Nature that just existed. The military is a system that was formed by both good and bad people. You have a good Sq/CC, but their hands are tied by the system that was created by bad commanders above them in the CoC.
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@brabus The pearl clutching reaction is certainly political posturing. However, there is an argument to be made that striking the boats is crossing a line, Rand Paul has made it while acknowledging the cats on the boats are very probably shit heads. So it's not like there is no principled opposition to the ops in the Caribbean either.
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@busdriver Possible. But the point I was more addressing is the ludicrously stupid, general uproar about war crimes, no due process, they’re just civilians on boats that DEVGRU executed in cold blood against all laws, etc. I have no idea if Hegseth said those exact words, but I do know all of the left’s complaining and wailing about terrorist getting killed, how it’s “illegal,” etc is political ballwash and has zero credibility to it.
- Yesterday
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Yeah I didn’t mean for this thread to digress into the way it did. I’m sorry for all the judicial hardship that happened and other peoples stories are way worse than mine. I just wish I was leaving feeling accomplished and satisfied. I do politely disagree that a system can betray you, or at least make you feel betrayed. Many AFIs, policies, and VMLs are written so there is little control for the commander or member. Therefore regardless of the person I was working with (and I’ve been blessed to work with mostly great people) their hands may be tied to do something ridiculous. To me that feels like a betrayal. Again it’s just a feeling but it’s something I need to work through I guess.
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Glad he got out. -
The War ZoneThunderbirds F-16C Fighting Falcon Crashes in CaliforniaThe jet's pilot safely ejected and was transported to an area hospital with non life-threatening injuries. -
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AC/DC - Thunderstruck (Official Video) You've Been Thunderstruck -
That is all horrific, but you missed my point. The system cannot do anything in and of itself; only the people within the system. So being disgruntled at the entire system because of some bad people doesn't make sense. You apparently got screwed by some people that had no business being in authority and have every right to be angry at them. My point is that there are good and bad people in every organization, the nature of the military just ends up giving those people the potential to have a larger impact on other people's lives than most civilian structures.
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My point was Hegseth probably said something very close to what he's being accused of saying, just in another context. And the admin folks can't backdown because that would be tantamount to admitting Hegseth made a mistake (or violating the never apologize rule). So two things can be true: the re-attack in itself can be not a problem and Hegseth opened his mouth and stupid came out.
