More SARC briefings soon.

[Liquid]

A) I actually haven't heard anyone say so to speak in quite a while. Nobody really cares anymore.

B) Beaver is a lame callsign, but not inappropriate unless you really want to be offended.

3) This is my own time, and I'm asking the experts for enlightenment on rape songs. Please at least tell me the names of a few of your vast repertoire.

Not in my repertoire, just examples of inappropriate songs: The engineer's dream, bridge at midnight, S&M Man, my Bonnie, Rawhide, South Atlantic Hornpipe, the gang bang song, the old department store, and why was she born a bitch are a few. Popular at rugby games, hash runs and frat parties. Should not be sung at work or in uniform. Should not be in squadron songbooks. Should not be defended as tradition and key to war fighting ethos.

[Vetter]

Wait, aren't we technically always on duty? 24-7? What does wearing a uniform have to do with it? So, I can make a sexual joke in my car at 5:59, but the second I step out at 6:00 on duty, it's inappropriate?

[rcharles]

I'm the lurker extraordinaire, but I had to post.

Who ever these dipshits are / claim to be, Liquid & GC, you are the plague of the Air Force. You are the ones that fail to realize that guys/girls(F your PC bullshit) that have given literally decades of their lives for this thankless organization are frustrated when the organization is failing wholesale. Not frustrated at the failure, but rather at the organizations response to the failure. Our leaders are pawns to the media, current politics, and whoever might complain. Claim mass importance for any miniscule detail you'd like. Just remember when you're drowning "this boat is sinking and you've already chased off everyone with enough sack to put a life ring around your ###### neck"

Edit for these ###. "Pu$$y"

Edited July 7, 2013 by rcharles

[10percenttruth]

I'm the lurker extraordinaire, but I had to post.

Who ever these dipshits are / claim to be, Liquid & GC, you are the plague of the Air Force. You are the ones that fail to realize that guys/girls(F your PC bullshit) that have given literally decades of their lives for this thankless organization are frustrated when the organization is failing wholesale. Not frustrated at the failure, but rather at the organizations response to the failure. Our leaders are pawns to the media, current politics, and whoever might complain. Claim mass importance for any miniscule detail you'd like. Just remember when you're drowning "this boat is sinking and you've already chased off everyone with enough sack to put a life ring around your ###### neck"

Edit for these ###. "Pu$$y"

Congrats on finally coming out of the woodwork to simply repost the thoughts of several other members, only with significantly less tact & style.

Lurk moar, n00b.

[HossHarris]

Not in my repertoire, just examples of inappropriate songs: The engineer's dream, bridge at midnight, S&M Man, my Bonnie, Rawhide, South Atlantic Hornpipe, the gang bang song, the old department store, and why was she born a bitch are a few. Popular at rugby games, hash runs and frat parties. Should not be sung at work or in uniform. Should not be in squadron songbooks. Should not be defended as tradition and key to war fighting ethos.

Am I correct in assuming that you would consider Friday night in the squadron bar "at work"?

[Liquid]

Wait, aren't we technically always on duty? 24-7? What does wearing a uniform have to do with it? So, I can make a sexual joke in my car at 5:59, but the second I step out at 6:00 on duty, it's inappropriate?

You seem like a smart guy. Figure it out.

Am I correct in assuming that you would consider Friday night in the squadron bar "at work"?

Yes. In uniform in a federal building. So would in uniform at a downtown bar/event, representing the AF anywhere, or performing duties in/out of uniform. You are always of course subject to our laws and the UCMJ, so there aren't many places where you can sexually harass someone with impunity. Probably best to steer clear all together and take the hit to your morale. Growing up isn't all that bad. We do have wars to fight.

[joe1234]

Am I correct in assuming that you would consider Friday night in the squadron bar "at work"?

Well, the worst part about it that I can see, is how a female in the squadron can be put in a really shitty situation in which she has to either go along with the general culture of singing rape songs on a Friday night and be "a cool chick", or speak out against it, and be thought of as a man hating feminist. It's the same as being a minority and having to listen to racist jokes, and act like it's no big deal and you're still a "bro", because people who aren't "bros" don't get taken care of, and nobody wants to hang out with that guy.

It's one thing if a group of guys are out drinking and saying whatever, you can choose to not hang out with this people after work. But when it's the entire goddamn squadron doing it, and there's a precedent of ostracizing people who don't get along with that culture (officially or unofficially -- if you have a habit of hooking up your "bros" later on in your career, and being a "bro" means you hang out with everyone on Friday nights, drink, and sing rape songs, you're fucking ostracizing people who choose not to do that). But I suppose tradition is worth it?

Certain communities have a culture that demands conformity, and it seems kind of shitty to have to have to conform to a culture that's hostile to someone of your background. The military especially has this problem because the line between on duty and off duty is so blurred that it may as well not even exist. I'm no feminist, but that is the problem, and that is what needs to change. There was a time when it was okay to be openly racist, but not anymore. Now it's time to extend that same courtesy to women in the military.

[Danny Noonin]

..with the general culture of singing rape songs on a Friday night...

What the fuck is with this "rape song" bullshit? Liquid said that three or four times now you're starting up with it.

I've been in a lot of fighter squadrons and sung a lot of songs in a lot of bars in a lot of countries. NOT ONE of them has condoned, mentioned, suggested, etc, rape. Not one. Crude? Yes. Extremely so. Rape? Fuck no. The list of songs liquid said was apparently from a google search and even parroted the Wikipedia description. Most of those songs I've never heard of. The rest have lyrics that are variable (s&m, Chicago, etc) meaning that there are infinite verses possible and many are made up on the spot. So because you can do a google search and find some lyrics that some British rugby team used or in an old Vietnam songbook does not mean that those are lyrics actually sung in a fighter bar.

I'm not saying that there has never been an Air Force person to sing a song that did. But to suggest that there is some culture of "rape songs" in the air force or in fighter squadrons is so fucking ignorant of the truth it's unbelievable.

[Liquid]

I'm the lurker extraordinaire, but I had to post.

Who ever these dipshits are / claim to be, Liquid & GC, you are the plague of the Air Force. You are the ones that fail to realize that guys/girls(F your PC bullshit) that have given literally decades of their lives for this thankless organization are frustrated when the organization is failing wholesale. Not frustrated at the failure, but rather at the organizations response to the failure. Our leaders are pawns to the media, current politics, and whoever might complain. Claim mass importance for any miniscule detail you'd like. Just remember when you're drowning "this boat is sinking and you've already chased off everyone with enough sack to put a life ring around your ###### neck"

Edit for these ###. "Pu$$y"

Ok tough guy, how would you have responded to the SECDEF guidance and Senate criticism about how we handle sexual assaults and harassment?

The AF is a thankless organization who doesn't support those who give decades of their lives? You are f*ing kidding me. What could the AF have done to keep you from being so bitter? Not tell you AAD/PME is important? Give you a few more ribbons, pay and praise. How about more tax free pay, cheaper health insurance, more MWR programs, cheaper beer at the Deid or a better retirement plan?

Service during war is hard. Good people die, we deploy too much and we get tired. Now we are out of money, so it gets harder. Maybe you should just go find an easier job. Sounds like this one gets you too stressed out. Thanks for your service.

[Vetter]

You seem like a smart guy. Figure it out.

Thanks for the compliment. I have figured it out. Separating soon!

[General Chang]

Ok tough guy, how would you have responded to the SECDEF guidance and Senate criticism about how we handle sexual assaults and harassment?

The AF is a thankless organization who doesn't support those who give decades of their lives? You are f*ing kidding me. What could the AF have done to keep you from being so bitter? Not tell you AAD/PME is important? Give you a few more ribbons, pay and praise. How about more tax free pay, cheaper health insurance, more MWR programs, cheaper beer at the Deid or a better retirement plan?

Service during war is hard. Good people die, we deploy too much and we get tired. Now we are out of money, so it gets harder. Maybe you should just go find an easier job. Sounds like this one gets you too stressed out. Thanks for your service.

Two.

[nsplayr]

Thanks for your service.

Dude, if it's not clear at all you can take your backhanded "compliments" and cram them up your ass.

You can either stick to the facts, give people a little knowledge and continue "keeping the faith" or you can get down in the mud and start slinging personal rants back and forth. You can't do both.

I'm guessing if you are some type of senior leader you can recognize which of those two COAs is more valuable to both BO.net and as a measure of how you spend your own time.

So by all means, continue posting your insights on the problems people bitch about here, but if those insights are continually laced with a sarcastic, high-horse, aristocratic attitude about how awesome the AF is and how thankful everyone should be, you will make little to no progress in helping anyone and you might as well save the effort.

Edited July 7, 2013 by nsplayr

[Vetter]

Two.

Cute.

[Danny Noonin]

You can either stick to the facts, give people a little knowledge and continue "keeping the faith" or you can get down in the mud and start slinging personal rants back and forth. You can't do both.

Hmmm. I agree with you in the context of the condescending "quit yer bitching" and "if you don't like it you can get the fuck out" stuff he's been saying. Hes quite out of touch for a wing cc. But in this here case, the "lurker" tossed some personal attack grenades from the cheap seats. I don't expect anyone on here to have to absorb cheap shots but not be able to respond.

[nsplayr]

Valid WRT random poster, although that particular "compliment" about service has been levied on the regular to people adding valuable content. It's extremely condescending, which I'm sure is the point.

When a Commander tells someone retiring or separating "Thank you for your service," it should be heartfelt and true, not some pseudo-insult you throw around on the internet. Just my opinion.

Edited July 7, 2013 by nsplayr

[Vetter]

So he's a Wing/CC somewhere. Interesting.

[Gravedigger]

I'm going to use context clues here and say Liquid is not a Wg/CC. He probably was at some point, based upon the comments about signing PRFs previously. I'm going to say GC is a Brig Gen and Liguid is either Maj Gen or Lt Gen. Irrelevant, really, but Wg/CCs don't typically have the same access to high-level decision making as these dudes seem to have.

Here's the secret to being a good officer and human being: treat people with respect, regardless of gender/race/religion/sexual orientation. It really is that simple.

[Liquid]

Dude, if it's not clear at all you can take your backhanded "compliments" and cram them up your ass.

You can either stick to the facts, give people a little knowledge and continue "keeping the faith" or you can get down in the mud and start slinging personal rants back and forth. You can't do both.

I'm guessing if you are some type of senior leader you can recognize which of those two COAs is more valuable to both BO.net and as a measure of how you spend your own time.

So by all means, continue posting your insights on the problems people bitch about here, but if those insights are continually laced with a sarcastic, high-horse, aristocratic attitude about how awesome the AF is and how thankful everyone should be, you will make little to no progress in helping anyone and you might as well save the effort.

Nice. Start with "cram them up your ass", follow with advice on how to engage on this forum and then tell me how to spend my time. I'm not impressed.

[Danny Noonin]

Ok whatever he is. Irrelevant. Someone "in his position" (based solely on his own posted credentials).

By the way, he should NOT be outed. The entire nature of this forum would change if guys had to put their own names up against their banter here. Adding names makes things said "official", not merely anonymous BSing. If you guys want to hear from anyone other than young pups, then you have to allow for anonymity.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Danny Noonin

[Champ Kind]

If these clowns really are who they claim to be, they probably enjoy getting to piss on the masses via an anonymous Internet forum as much as we like to vent our frustration to supposed members of upper mgmt.

Glad you get to live out your fantasy and tell the people on the backs of which you've climbed up the corporate ladder how you REALLY feel about them.

[ClearedHot]

Nice. Start with "cram them up your ass", follow with advice on how to engage on this forum and then tell me how to spend my time. I'm not impressed.

Welcome to Baseops.net

Edited July 7, 2013 by ClearedHot

[Liquid]

Welcome to Baseops.net

I do enjoy reading this forum. Great wit, useful insights and a few knife fights.

[nsplayr]

Nice. Start with "cram them up your ass", follow with advice on how to engage on this forum and then tell me how to spend my time. I'm not impressed.

May I remind you of...

I don't give a shit what you care about. Take your infection advice and shove it up your ass.

Obviously you're cool with participating in the knife fighting, which is fine, although not always the most effective strategy if trying to impart wisdom.

Take it or leave it from someone who is likely in the target audience you're trying to influence by posting your thoughts here. If you're not trying to influence us and rather just coming here to BS cool, it just doesn't seem that way.

Edited July 7, 2013 by nsplayr

[disgruntledemployee]

We escalate quickly. Watch out, the trident comes next!

Say, doesn't football season start soon? Time to move on to talking about Favre making it to the Hall o Fame on the first vote.

Out

Edit: language lessons

Edited July 7, 2013 by disgruntledemployee

[herkbum]

Ok whatever he is. Irrelevant. Someone "in his position" (based solely on his own posted credentials).

By the way, he should NOT be outed. The entire nature of this forum would change if guys had to put their own names up against their banter here. Adding names makes things said "official", not merely anonymous BSing. If you guys want to hear from anyone other than young pups, then you have to allow for anonymity.

I wouldn't say anything on here that I wouldn't say to someone face-to-face. I will not hide behind an Internet forum in that sense. The thing that makes me nervous are the possible lurkers. I take OPSEC and COMSEC seriously, so I do not think names should be released. But someone's background speaks to validity.