TacAirCoug Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It's telling when Congress is the entity applying common sense in any situation. Rep. Mike Coffman, R-Col. a former Marine and soldier, was one Congressman who voted against it. He said the amount of savings gained by moving to a joint combat uniform was relatively small compared to the morale gained within the services of having separate uniforms. "This is really a morale issue, for our men and women in uniform," Coffman said. Complete fucking bullshit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThatGuy Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Why do we need another uniform for everyone? Why not just go with the version the Marines wear for ALL branches? I must have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQZip01 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 My understanding is that the Navy's pattern was designed to hide paint stains (no bullshit, that was the explanation I got). Even still, that uniform should AT LEAST be reversible to something high vis so when you fall off the bo-at you have a reasonable chance of being seen and picked up. As for the Air Force disaster of a uniform-- I had to wear it a few times at SOS (after getting the rank updated from 2Lt and getting wings sewn on). I feel REALLY sorry for non-bag wearers who are stuck in that heap of shit. I thought the bag was hot and didn't breathe well. The ABU is a whole new level of pain. And speaking of pain, maybe it was just because I had a fresh-ish set, but by the end of the afternoon that "uniform" had about sawed my balls clean off from chaffing. Any reasonable person (regardless of service, or even being in the military AT ALL) can see that this "we have to have our own uniform" nonsense has to go. There should be ONE utility uniform DOD wide, differentiated only by the patches and nametapes. That way you have the economy of scale going for you, as well as substantially simplified logistics. Utility/combat uniforms are not where services should be distinctive-- that's what the service uniform is for. Am I not the only one who finds severe irony in "distinctive camouflage uniform"? Camouflage's stated purpose is to try and blend in, not be distinctive. "Uniform" means the "one form". "Distintive" means different Who the f*** came up with these ideas!?!? I'll give the Marines props for creating their own uniforms when uniform board after uniform board refused to make a better pattern, but the "no, we won't share it" rule was BS. Either we are a joint force or we aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThatGuy Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Am I not the only one who finds severe irony in "distinctive camouflage uniform"? Camouflage's stated purpose is to try and blend in, not be distinctive. "Uniform" means the "one form". "Distintive" means different Who the f*** came up with these ideas!?!? I'll give the Marines props for creating their own uniforms when uniform board after uniform board refused to make a better pattern, but the "no, we won't share it" rule was BS. Either we are a joint force or we aren't. If it is true that leadership from the Marines refused to share their uniforms that is when the Joint Chiefs and Congress should have stepped in. We could have avoided our uniforms coming out of a bag of skittles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Either we are a joint force or we aren't. And the Marines, specifically, would bristle at this notion. The smallest service, never a full fledged department in their own right; they have a genetic dread of a dystopian future with one joint "purple" force. It would mark the end of their identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzdude Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 My understanding is they refused to share because they fronted the money out of their (relatively meager) budget after first trying to get everyone to move to a new camo pattern. The other services didn't want to spend the money on developing new uniforms, while the Marines felt so strongly that they needed better camo that they made the investment despite their small budget. The Marines also incorporated the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor into the camo pattern, which guaranteed the other services wouldn't steal it anyways out of service pride. That being said, we should just all move to multicam/OCP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThatGuy Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) My understanding is they refused to share because they fronted the money out of their (relatively meager) budget after first trying to get everyone to move to a new camo pattern. The other services didn't want to spend the money on developing new uniforms, while the Marines felt so strongly that they needed better camo that they made the investment despite their small budget. The Marines also incorporated the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor into the camo pattern, which guaranteed the other services wouldn't steal it anyways out of service pride. That being said, we should just all move to multicam/OCP. According to a study by an outside agency the Marines spent the least amount of money on their uniforms. Their small investment paid off and they have the most combat ready and durable uniform. The uniform should include the emblem of all services if feasible so you can go to any base with a military clothing sale store and purchase uniform items. During our era in BDU's you could go to any base and get what you need. Bring those days back.... Edited June 13, 2013 by slick999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainerModel Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I dont know anyone that dislikes the multicam. At first I thought I would hate it compared to my bag for flying. I actually like it more, I'd wear it at home if i could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThatGuy Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) Question is how much does multicams cost the enlisted troop when compared to the Marine Corps BDU? A uniform must be affordable for the enlisted ranks. Edited June 13, 2013 by slick999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vprdrvr69 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Question is how much does multicams cost the enlisted troop when compared to the Marine Corps BDU? A uniform must be affordable for the enlisted ranks. I agree! Which is why it was so ridiculous and comical when the USAF put out the extremely expensive plastic bag PT gear that I wouldn't buy off the clearance rack at a dollar general! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThatGuy Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) I agree! Which is why it was so ridiculous and comical when the USAF put out the extremely expensive plastic bag PT gear that I wouldn't buy off the clearance rack at a dollar general! LMAO. Why not just have Nike, Reebok, or Under Armour compete to make the clothes. I love running distance in mesh basketball shorts. The PT shorts ride up into my crotch area. I know how Magic Johnson and Larry Bird felt having to play basketball in short shorts. And you should be able to wear black socks with your PT uniform. Why only white socks? Edited June 13, 2013 by slick999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNBAR Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Well, we did spent $3.1M designing and developing them, but you've got to spend a little if you want to procure something that cool and comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy pilgrim Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I really liked the OEF multicam uniforms, but they wear out quickly. On the flight suit note - I have a few new flight suits but I hate wearing them because they are not broken in at all. Anyone have any tips for breaking them in so they're not so hot / uncomfortable? My inputs for the next-gen ABUs: Less-breathable, stiffer fabric and a pocket for my AFMAN 10-100! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slackline Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 On the flight suit note - I have a few new flight suits but I hate wearing them because they are not broken in at all. Anyone have any tips for breaking them in so they're not so hot / uncomfortable? This! I just got my first new flight suits since 2008, and I absolutely hate them. The zippers stick, the material is way thicker, and they're some weird green color. I'd wash them a billion times, but my wife got mad at me for wasting water! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KState_Poke22 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Am I not the only one who finds severe irony in "distinctive camouflage uniform"? Camouflage's stated purpose is to try and blend in, not be distinctive. "Uniform" means the "one form". "Distintive" means different Who the f*** came up with these ideas!?!? I'll give the Marines props for creating their own uniforms when uniform board after uniform board refused to make a better pattern, but the "no, we won't share it" rule was BS. Either we are a joint force or we aren't. The Marines have always been the most independent service. They try to do things themselves and even try to use their own air assets when at all possible. I can't say I blame them, they always get the shaft when it comes to money compared to the other services and they've been screwed over before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) This! I just got my first new flight suits since 2008, and I absolutely hate them. The zippers stick, the material is way thicker, and they're some weird green color. I'd wash them a billion times, but my wife got mad at me for wasting water! One of the wives in my squadron told my wife to wash them once with a little vinegar. Didn't notice a real difference until I washed them again (w/o vinegar), and now they are significantly, less stiff and don't feel as thick. As for the zippers, I still have the same problems with the new ones I got. Edited June 13, 2013 by Fuzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntledemployee Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 My Marine buddy shared that they wanted their own distinctive uniform to make sure nobody confuses them with the Army. He said the Marines put that to good use when the Fallujah went to hell while the Army was there and the Marines rotated in and made sure the locals knew heads were gonna roll with the new sherriff in town with their EGA badge. There is benefit to uniform identity. Unfortunately, we got stuck with the second worst. Navy, you rule with the blue camo. Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilon Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 LMAO. Why not just have Nike, Reebok, or Under Armour compete to make the clothes. I love running distance in mesh basketball shorts. The PT shorts ride up into my crotch area. I know how Magic Johnson and Larry Bird felt having to play basketball in short shorts. And you should be able to wear black socks with your PT uniform. Why only white socks? The AF I am on exchange duty has New Balance make all of their PT gear, and they are issued it for free. Full-up running suits for winter and summer...as well as top of the line running shoes. Damn embarrassing that USAF can't even come close to that. I guarantee it is easier to source and cheaper than our USAF PT plastic gimp suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueypilot Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) Army/AF dudes should make MultiCam their default utilities. MAF/heavy/helo drivers should wear the MultiCam two piece flight suit. Ejection seat aircraft will still get one-piece pickle suits. USMC/USN should adopt MARPAT for utilities and one-piece flight bags for FDUs. That keeps everything associated with Army/AF or the Dept of the Navy. That's about the biggest distinction we need. Three uniform types (two of which look the same...MultiCam utilities and FDUs). That's my two cents. Edited June 13, 2013 by Hueypilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 My Marine buddy shared that they wanted their own distinctive uniform to make sure nobody confuses them with the Army... He can thank my old boss, Gen James L. Jones, for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThatGuy Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) My Marine buddy shared that they wanted their own distinctive uniform to make sure nobody confuses them with the Army. He said the Marines put that to good use when the Fallujah went to hell while the Army was there and the Marines rotated in and made sure the locals knew heads were gonna roll with the new sherriff in town with their EGA badge. There is benefit to uniform identity. Unfortunately, we got stuck with the second worst. Navy, you rule with the blue camo. Out Actually, the AF uniforms faired the worst out of all the services in regard to durability while in combat and yet the AF paid the most to bring ABUs online. If you want a uniform for drinking coffee and sitting in an office all day then you want a set of ABUs. Do we only give MRAPs to Marines? No, everyone deserves the best protection while in combat and they deserve a uniform that has already proven itself. Some services need to get off the ego pony and learn to SHARE. Then again some services need to be receptive of the fact there is a better way or uniform. In the end, we all bleed the same color and put our lives on the line. Edited June 13, 2013 by slick999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 How about we just go back to fatigues and you'll get issued whatever you need when you deploy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainerModel Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Question is how much does multicams cost the enlisted troop when compared to the Marine Corps BDU? A uniform must be affordable for the enlisted ranks. Yea, and they get a uniform stipend to buy uniforms. This is not a great criteria to evaluate a "new" uniform Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThatGuy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Yea, and they get a uniform stipend to buy uniforms. This is not a great criteria to evaluate a "new" uniform Have you ever received a uniform stipend as an enlisted member before? When you receive the same pay as an enlisted member give me a call and I will provide you with an education on uniform stipends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueypilot Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Have you ever received a uniform stipend as an enlisted member before? When you receive the same pay as an enlisted member give me a call and I will provide you with an education on uniform stipends. I have...I was an E in the Army Guard, and a poor college student as well. We didn't get a uniform stipend but those BDUs still wore out and I had to replace them out of pocket. I prob didn't have to replace them as often as, say, an AD crew chief, but I still went through several sets in the four years I served as an E-1 thru E-5. In any case, making MultiCam the default utility uniform would mean greater production, and prices should come down due to economies of scale. Right now it's a "specialty" uniform and isn't made in the same numbers as the other uniforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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