Guest Alarm Red Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Yeah, welcome to the message board where most people are likely NOT in pursuit of that shiny eagle you speak of...far from it, most of us would probably run the other way if offered such a rank. I know I would. By the way, there are a couple threads out there that speak of the BS you broadly blame on those of us that post here (hint: we don't like it any more than you do). Just for your info, I'm about 7 1/2 months into a 12 month deployment in Baghdad. Dude, we get that you're doing a 365 to Baghdad. You've dropped that hint now 5 times in the last two weeks (1, 2, 3, 4, 5). I appreciate your service, but you certainly aren't the first and you won't be the last. No matter who you talk to and where you go, someone else's suck is always worse than yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slacker Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 what's up with the n00bs nowadays? disrespecting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 what's up with the n00bs nowadays? disrespecting... More like douchebagging. WTF? I thought this was a thread about Hercs vs 17s? Can we start a "I hate everyone on this forum" thread for the whiny little f's and get this one back on track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeMeantWell Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'm so sick of you academy grad, storm trooper assimilated pencil dick peons I think "pencil-dick" should be hyphenated, I am not sure if pencil refers to peons or dicks? pls clarify. BTW, "Who's scruffy looking?" waving your self-righteous core values in my face while you recite your Airman's Creed in the flight planning room. I thought they were "our" core values and creed? You must not like them? Either way, I have never seen this happen in any flight planning room. Both planes rock and have far outsurpassed any expectations, unfortunately the C-17 costs a freaking lot of money...I wonder if any great FGO has done research on the cost between the 2 (cost per tonnage per mile, short range versus long range). They do make a nice blended solution, with both being able to partially complete the others mission. C-17 focus on long legs, but when a lot has to be moved over a short distance/to a short field it can fill in, however inefficiently that might be; and the C-130 can definetly move farther distances if need be. It will be interesting what shakes out when we are done in the east (yes we will be done, with the economy as it is, 5 years?) if the C-17 will go the way of the gucci-boy life style... I would guess we will see the end of the C-17 on dirt strips, just not economically pheasible... If you really want to find a good dividing point, it is probably airdrop, C-130 pilots are bred to fly airdrop, the C-17... not so much. The plane has the capabilities but the training costs are astronomical and therefore "most" C-17 pilots, frankly, suck at it. Once they get good they are off to ACSC and staff. I would like to see a single ship AD qual, mainly for high altitude stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourFans Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Both planes rock and have far outsurpassed any expectations, unfortunately the C-17 costs a freaking lot of money...I wonder if any great FGO has done research on the cost between the 2 (cost per tonnage per mile, short range versus long range). They do make a nice blended solution, with both being able to partially complete the others mission. C-17 focus on long legs, but when a lot has to be moved over a short distance/to a short field it can fill in, however inefficiently that might be; and the C-130 can definetly move farther distances if need be. It will be interesting what shakes out when we are done in the east (yes we will be done, with the economy as it is, 5 years?) if the C-17 will go the way of the gucci-boy life style... I would guess we will see the end of the C-17 on dirt strips, just not economically pheasible... If you really want to find a good dividing point, it is probably airdrop, C-130 pilots are bred to fly airdrop, the C-17... not so much. The plane has the capabilities but the training costs are astronomical and therefore "most" C-17 pilots, frankly, suck at it. Once they get good they are off to ACSC and staff. I would like to see a single ship AD qual, mainly for high altitude stuff... Well said. Airmanstranded: If you're at Kandahar and you think life sucks. Just wait a few weeks...it's about to get a whole lot suckier...the shoeiest operator I've EVER seen is headed your way...with authority. Enjoy that one. I'm not say'n, but I'm say'n. FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hueypilot812 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I appreciate your service, but you certainly aren't the first and you won't be the last. No matter who you talk to and where you go, someone else's suck is always worse than yours. I never said I've got it worse than anyone else. This dude above appears with this nice long post about how people like "us" don't get stuck with the bad deals. I mentioned my current deployment because it is relevant to this discussion...that although he's deployed and it sucks, but others are also deployed, and he's not the only one. FWIW, every time I mentioned my 365, I did so because it was part of the discussion. The examples you cited involved me stating things like "after my 365 I'm going to the C-130J" or talking to other 365ers out there about where we are with our deployments. I don't see how that's whining about being deployed. I don't whine and complain about being sent here because I volunteered for it. I have bitched some about the usual deployment idiocy that the AEFers bring, but so has everyone else on this board. I don't see you trying to call them out for mentioning their deployments. There are a number of other people who did remotes and 365 tours that have mentioned it in their posts. What's the difference between someone else saying "hey, I'm about to be deployed to al Udeid" and me saying "hey, I'm going to the J after my 365"... I don't see that as a big deal. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourFans Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Re-attack. I appreciate your service, but you certainly aren't the first and you won't be the last. No matter who you talk to and where you go, someone else's suck is always worse than yours. Alarm Red: Seriously? You're gunna crap on the dude doing 12 months in that hole? Have you been there?! Of ALL the people on this forum...you choose him? Throw yourself from the staff tower. You Fail. Bias, you continue to amaze me with the foot-in-mouth crap you drivel out about the C-17. Its painfully obvious you dont know what you are talking about. Chuck, sorry brother...Bias wins this one. C-130s and C-17s compliment each other nicely. But see the caps for what they really are. Sure...C-17s can go into little fields. And I can stick my thumb up my ass. I don't need to experience either to know that neither one is comfortable or necessary. It's not about ability, it's about mission effectiveness. C-17s are great for big fields with big ATOC. OIF is ALL yours. Take it. We can't have enough C-17s in Iraq. I love seeing you guys over there. Perfect platform for that mission. However... If it's a 3000 ft dirt strip, it probably has about ONE (ok, maybe two) forklift. So what's the point of putting 18 pallets in his lap and severely reducing the runway life in one sortie when you can space it out over 30-45 minutes with herks while saving your runway at the same time? Herks are better for short ground time on a tight ramp that's unimproved. C-17s aren't. Will there be a rare occasion where something too big for a herk needs to be moved out of a small field...sure. But not that often. If the army needs THAT much stuff RIGHT NOW...it's time for some airdrop as already discussed. Leave the dirt strip INTRAtheater airlift/airdrop to the pros, that's what we do best. B.L. The guy on the ground with the gun is the mission. EVERYTHING ELSE IS SUPPORT. Whatever combination of airlift/airdrop does that best is all that counts to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf424 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Back to the whole "Herk guys are last in their class" bs, VN 09-13 drop went: #1 guy: 44 #2 guy: 38 #3 guy: 38 #4 guy: 44 #5 guy: 44 So it's fairly absurd to say (at least nowadays) that 130 pilots are the sh!tbags of their class. ...not that I'm biased or anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasty Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'm sure most Herk guys have some resentment for the gucci C-17's simply from the QOL. When the Herk guys are doing 6-stoppers in the box and its 120 on the ground, 140 in the plane because the A/C doesn't work below 10k in the E-models (with service ceilings below transition altitudes!) and the plane you're flying flew combat missions in Vietnam....its easy to get the "we fly REAL missions" mentality simply because some parts of it suck alot more. That moment came for me when I realized the C-17's had working A/C on the ground. Last rote our tactics guys kept trying to do buddy rides with the C-17's and vice versa, but the leadership was WAY against the idea. I thought it'd be cool if we got to see the other side for a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C17Driver Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'm sure most Herk guys have some resentment for the gucci C-17's simply from the QOL. When the Herk guys are doing 6-stoppers in the box and its 120 on the ground, 140 in the plane because the A/C doesn't work below 10k in the E-models (with service ceilings below transition altitudes!) and the plane you're flying flew combat missions in Vietnam....its easy to get the "we fly REAL missions" mentality simply because some parts of it suck alot more. That moment came for me when I realized the C-17's had working A/C on the ground. Last rote our tactics guys kept trying to do buddy rides with the C-17's and vice versa, but the leadership was WAY against the idea. I thought it'd be cool if we got to see the other side for a day. I know many of us have done 5 stoppers in the AOR...and the A/C does work most of the time (except in sand storms...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Air conditioning? Pansies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slacker Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 "hey, I'm about to be deployed to al Udeid" and me saying "hey, I'm going to the J after my 365"... If you want to bitch about your 365 in the suck- go for it. If you can't bitch here, I'm leaving. You'll dig the J. The only drawback to going to the J, is the fear of having to go back to any other C-130 (sorry to my legacy brethren). You will get so spoiled, so quickly. Even the mighty C-17 (which I would love to fly) is a step down in the toy department. Sounds like you’ll know what I’m talking about by this time next year. Douchebags- if someone wants to bitch here about a 365, 120, 90, 60 or whatever, and all you’ve got is “someone has got it worse,” EABOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Guys, let's keep the discussions on topic. If you want to talk about deployments or any other suck, do so in another thread. There's plenty of places to bitch and moan on here, and it is highly encouraged, just do so in the appropriate place! Cheers! M2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerkDerka Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'm so sick of you academy grad, storm trooper assimilated pencil dick peons waving your self-righteous core values in my face while you recite your Airman's Creed in the flight planning room. I appreciate your rage against the establishment, but why did you quote my post about T-44 drops in your post? Fail. HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeMeantWell Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Bias, you continue to amaze me with the foot-in-mouth crap you drivel out about the C-17. Its painfully obvious you dont know what you are talking about. pardon my foolishness to get back on topic, I will place a disclaimer before my drivel from now on No more dirt? You do realize the boys at Edwards are finishing up with the wet-SPRO stuff now right? That soon there will be more options than 4 (wet) or 20 (dry) for RCR on SPRO strips? That the USAF is about to go in with the Canadians on a shit-ton of testing for Snow-SPRO? The plane can also do LAPES, doesn't mean it should. A capability shouldn't drive AF policy (HA!). A good example of a solution looking for a problem. I would be willing to guess that a considerable amount of the research and testing being done to expand the C-17s capabilities is to keep selling the plane to Congress, the administration, and other countries. I was looking at the shear economics of it, yes it is a very amazing capability and has been used very effectively (same with LAPES); but when a maintenance officer wants to declare a class B because an antennae rips off the bottom of the acft, you have a problem with continued operations. How can you justify the cost (not just to antennaes, but to tires, brakes, cooling system, avionics, ...what about blade damage?) on the C-17 to go into "real" dirt, it just doesn't make sense on a routine basis... I bet the cost from one FOD ingestion on a C-17 would have paid for 10 C-130 sorties. Now, if it is matted, solid ground (no ruts), enough MHE to handle the C-17, and a "genuine" need (not, my Wing/CC doesn't have a silver star type need), then why not. I think we are in for unprecedented changes to financial budgets, the C-17 is being rode hard and put away wet, we need to save them for its most efficient uses... I don't think busting antennaes, gear doors, and tires is the most efficient. Effective sometimes, yes, not effecient. Airdrop is the future for both platforms, we have a ways to go to be efficient at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourFans Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 my Wing/CC doesn't have a silver star type need Unfortunately that is the only kind of need that gets any kind of real support these days. FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Unfortunately that is the only kind of need that gets any kind of real support these days. FF Wana know what I need? More Cowbell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe1234 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 As to C-17 to C-130...one acronym should do it... AFSOC. period. The man makes a good point..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C-21 Pilot Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I was #3 in my UPT class and my first choice was T-44s to Corpus. Corpus is the shit and Navy flying is the way it should be, Fvcking Awesome! My flt CC in Upt had to wheel and deal to get a 44 slot and it happened, thank God! So no shit bags in my experience, although most shitbags in the 130 I have met, both in J's and E/H were AMC. Not saying it's all AMC, just my experience. As to C-17 to C-130...one acronym should do it... AFSOC. period. Unless things have changed in the last 7 years, I didn't know that they gave out awards for #3 in UPT. How did you come up with number? I recall that when I went through back in the day, you had a Top Stick per flight/per class....we had 2 flights back in Tweets. Therefore, 2 guys were given the top award per flight - you didn't know who was #1, #2 or #25... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAround Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Unless things have changed in the last 7 years, I didn't know that they gave out awards for #3 in UPT. How did you come up with number? I recall that when I went through back in the day, you had a Top Stick per flight/per class....we had 2 flights back in Tweets. Therefore, 2 guys were given the top award per flight - you didn't know who was #1, #2 or #25... He probably wanted fighters but didn't get 38's, so he settled for a prop plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeMeantWell Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 AFSOC. period. We poop bigger than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasty Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Sure do. http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index...showtopic=14852 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeMeantWell Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Sure do. http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index...showtopic=14852 nice, this road might get ugly, but it might be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCO Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Unless things have changed in the last 7 years, I didn't know that they gave out awards for #3 in UPT. How did you come up with number? I recall that when I went through back in the day, you had a Top Stick per flight/per class....we had 2 flights back in Tweets. Therefore, 2 guys were given the top award per flight - you didn't know who was #1, #2 or #25... I dont think they are supposed to tell you but it happens. I had IP's tell me my rank after track select. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AirGuardian Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Therefore, 2 guys were given the top award per flight - you didn't know who was #1, #2 or #25... I kinda thought you could tell when the C-17 winner was obviously the #1 guy leaving #25 with the props of pain... or was it the Flying DishWACs... I just couldn't resist! Either way, the Guard thing was nice knowing where you were headed - as long as you made it of course. #1 or #25 not a damn bit of difference. The units themselves tend to push the low hanging fruit out of the business if they somehow make it past AETC/ATC/Whatever... Being a former 130E MX Officer, the Herk is obivously cool... Crossing multiple time zones - body clock... Watching a few movies - $5.00 because I get back in time to return it. Sneaking in/out of theater in one day and having beer from whence I came - C17 = Priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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