FourFans Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 16 hours ago, MDDieselPilot said: What's the current thought on having "Def Promote" in the push line, but a P overall...carry any weight, or meaningless? I'm IPZ this year and just got my prf back with a P. Loads of combat time, few DGs (though honestly they're from flying programs and not school, so I cynically think they carry less weight), few lower level awards, and small, but consistent strats. I fully expect to get passed over. You have the number to that truck driving school we saw on tv, Truck Masters I think it was? I might need that. Disclaimer: Each promotion board gets new guidance, and that specific guidance, nor the actual decision making process in the board is never transparently communicated afterwards. In short, you’ll never know why you did or did not make it. The “if I had one more DP to give” is the best ‘super P’ For the P’s, in recent boards, if the verbal DP is tied with a strong command push like “should command now” or “ready for command immediately” that can put you in the high portion of the P’s. Conversely, if tied with a medium command push like “on track to command”, that verbal DP becomes less powerful. It’s a tough code to crack...especially when you involve strats. My IPZ PRF had a straight #10/20 senior rater strat, but an “on track for command” and no verbal DP, with a “P” checked. Sounds cut and dry: exactly middle of the total pack, should be high P area with an overall 75% promotion rate. Passed over. Even colonels who’ve sat on boards looked at it and said WTF. Even the civilian passed over counselor (I think she’s the only one, or one of a very few, so she has a good feel for the system) was a bit baffled. Our awesome opaque process at work. Honestly, after talking to a marine and some army guys I work with, I think the USAF promotion system is terrible and horridly riddled with unknowns. By comparison, the marines get a list of exactly who’s on the board beforehand. Ours sucks. Don’t put any value on it. Bottom line, once it’s sign, let it go and decide what kind of officer and man YOU want to be. The ink representing some “leader’s” opaque opinion of your career DOES NOT define the impact you make. Only you do that. Don’t let the output of a broken system limit your contribution. If you’ve got a lot of combat hours, chances are good that you have a lot to teach young kids, and a lot to pass on to your community. I know that doesn’t make the process any easier to endure, and you will likely still want to throat punch a “leader” or two if you get passed over. But know that regardless of rank and what the broken system decides, your inputs and experience are truly valuable to the LTs whose lives your experience and instruction can save. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 1 hour ago, FourFans130 said: Disclaimer: Each promotion board gets new guidance, and that specific guidance, nor the actual decision making process in the board is never transparently communicated afterwards. In short, you’ll never know why you did or did not make it. The “if I had one more DP to give” is the best ‘super P’ For the P’s, in recent boards, if the verbal DP is tied with a strong command push like “should command now” or “ready for command immediately” that can put you in the high portion of the P’s. Conversely, if tied with a medium command push like “on track to command”, that verbal DP becomes less powerful. It’s a tough code to crack...especially when you involve strats. My IPZ PRF had a straight #10/20 senior rater strat, but an “on track for command” and no verbal DP, with a “P” checked. Sounds cut and dry: exactly middle of the total pack, should be high P area with an overall 75% promotion rate. Passed over. Even colonels who’ve sat on boards looked at it and said WTF. Even the civilian passed over counselor (I think she’s the only one, or one of a very few, so she has a good feel for the system) was a bit baffled. Our awesome opaque process at work. Honestly, after talking to a marine and some army guys I work with, I think the USAF promotion system is terrible and horridly riddled with unknowns. By comparison, the marines get a list of exactly who’s on the board beforehand. Ours sucks. Don’t put any value on it. Bottom line, once it’s sign, let it go and decide what kind of officer and man YOU want to be. The ink representing some “leader’s” opaque opinion of your career DOES NOT define the impact you make. Only you do that. Don’t let the output of a broken system limit your contribution. If you’ve got a lot of combat hours, chances are good that you have a lot to teach young kids, and a lot to pass on to your community. I know that doesn’t make the process any easier to endure, and you will likely still want to throat punch a “leader” or two if you get passed over. But know that regardless of rank and what the broken system decides, your inputs and experience are truly valuable to the LTs whose lives your experience and instruction can save. Meanwhile, I work with the one guy who had a DP checked, and still got passed over to Lt Col. The civilian lady told him: 1. You didn't have enough FGO awards and 2. The board didn't think your DP was legit based on the other strats in the PRF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 3 hours ago, FourFans130 said: It’s a tough code to crack...especially when you involve strats. My IPZ PRF had a straight #10/20 senior rater strat, but an “on track for command” and no verbal DP, with a “P” checked. Sounds cut and dry: exactly middle of the total pack, should be high P area with an overall 75% promotion rate. This is best understood in the context that the 75% promote rate overall really breaks down to DP = 99% promote and P = 50% promote. If you are a P then you have a little less than a 50/50 shot at promotion. In the P category it really is hard to understand why one gets passed over while another gets promoted. I was a “super P” at the Wing level and the Wing Exec who had a straight P was passed over. Our Wing had 4 eligible. Two DPs promoted. Two Ps were 50/50. We had similar records. Hard to distinguish between our records. It’s a mystery. Of course, he’s flying for Delta now so it’s debateable that he’s the one who lost out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaarman Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 11 hours ago, 17D_guy said: RUMINT//NON ATTRIBUTABLE I have nothing to add other than this is a great post. I really enjoy your writing style on here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 This is best understood in the context that the 75% promote rate overall really breaks down to DP = 99% promote and P = 50% promote. If you are a P then you have a little less than a 50/50 shot at promotion. In the P category it really is hard to understand why one gets passed over while another gets promoted. I was a “super P” at the Wing level and the Wing Exec who had a straight P was passed over. Our Wing had 4 eligible. Two DPs promoted. Two Ps were 50/50. We had similar records. Hard to distinguish between our records. It’s a mystery. Of course, he’s flying for Delta now so it’s debateable that he’s the one who lost out. QFT. I had a ton of O-6s dumbfounded why my record wasn’t promotable to O-5.But there is something to be said about not giving a flying about what my OPR says these days as a 2x passed over dude.The funny thing about the whole deal? I’ve impacted more pilots than pretty much most O-5 Sq/CCs and O-6 OG/CCs or Wg/CCs...and I’ll still wind up flying for some airline just like they will. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourFans Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 4 hours ago, ThreeHoler said: I’ve impacted more pilots than pretty much most O-5 Sq/CCs and O-6 OG/CCs or Wg/CCs...and I’ll still wind up flying for some airline just like they will. More people need to realize this earlier in the career path. Chess, not checkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recut Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 (edited) On 5/15/2018 at 11:45 AM, ThreeHoler said: The funny thing about the whole deal? I’ve impacted more pilots than pretty much most O-5 Sq/CCs and O-6 OG/CCs or Wg/CCs...and I’ll still wind up flying for some airline just like they will. On 5/15/2018 at 4:00 PM, FourFans130 said: More people need to realize this earlier in the career path. Chess, not checkers. I just got my IPZ LtCol PRF with the P checked and weak DP push line. I didn't even know what a weak push line looked like (hence my first visit to baseops in years) so thanks to those who shared that info. ThreeHoler and FourFans are spot on here, at least the way I see it. I just wonder when big blue will stop pretending with all of this - we need pilots but we're still passing dudes over because they were pilots. I am not bitter, seriously- I have had my chess game going for a long time. highly recommend that to future operators! Edited May 20, 2018 by Recut because I'm old and my computer sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitzo Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 I just got my IPZ LtCol PRF with the P checked and weak DP push line. I didn't even know what a weak push line looked like (hence my first visit to baseops in years) so thanks to those who shared that info. ThreeHoler and FourFans are spot on here, at least the way I see it. I just wonder when big blue will stop pretending with all of this - we need pilots but we're still passing dudes over because they were pilots. I am not bitter, seriously- I have had my chess game going for a long time. highly recommend that to future operators! Sorry man, best I can guess with a decent P push is that you and I are still in the same boat. Damn shame, I don’t physically think I could have done any more to earn a DP. So if you think similarly you and I have nothing to be disappointed about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recut Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Thanks for that. I'm good, I knew how it would play out even though I reserved a small amount of hope that someone would value my flying creds/and even non flying leadership stuff over queep. But, it is what it is. I would be appalled if you're not promoted from what you've shared - completely sucks you have to stress about it until they announce results............I just can't see how you won't be promoted from that info tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Been there done that. Skitzo will probably get promoted and Recut won’t. Unless the boards have changed that drastically in 3-4 years. A weak push is the kiss of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recut Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Yup. my push mentions nothing of commanding. Wonder why we play these games though when there's the "command track" and other BS nonsense and operators on the other hand. Why wait until now when I was never on the command track to tell me I'm not on the command track? Again, I am good and not bitter at all. Dent to the ego but I knew where I stood as a captain, let alone at this board. I've always been an operator and have never played "the game" so this is no surprise for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recut Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 False info about never playing the game from me. I did the whole masters thing for the majors board back then and did ACSC (now for nothing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Recut said: Yup. my push mentions nothing of commanding. Wonder why we play these games though when there's the "command track" and other BS nonsense and operators on the other hand. Why wait until now when I was never on the command track to tell me I'm not on the command track? Again, I am good and not bitter at all. Dent to the ego but I knew where I stood as a captain, let alone at this board. I've always been an operator and have never played "the game" so this is no surprise for me. an "operator". lulz. love it. you got your subdued c-17 SOL2 patches on or wat? get at me son #C-17_Delta_Force #Bitch_I_Operate don't take it personally bro i'm a few whiskey's deep at 2 am....its all good but for the record youre a pilot. Not. An. Operator. Nothing wrong with that. I’m a pilot too. Shots x69 Edited May 20, 2018 by BashiChuni 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recut Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Ok douchebag, I’m not trying to be cool. I entered this AF in the late 90s and by “operator” I meant pilot or operations vice pencil pusher. Punch yourself. 3 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 (edited) Haha. Cool man. Glad you’re a pilot. Cheers. Edited May 20, 2018 by BashiChuni 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 4 hours ago, BashiChuni said: an "operator". lulz. love it. you got your subdued c-17 SOL2 patches on or wat? get at me son #C-17_Delta_Force #Bitch_I_Operate don't take it personally bro i'm a few whiskey's deep at 2 am....its all good but for the record youre a pilot. Not. An. Operator. Nothing wrong with that. I’m a pilot too. Shots x69 How's life over there in the pilot group? Because at my wing, we have an Operations Group. 2 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Bashi, what’s going on in your life man? You’ve been a negative Nancy for a while man. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Bashi, what’s going on in your life man? You’ve been a negative Nancy for a while man. I’m guessing it’s the pre-op hormones they have him taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olevelo Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 When talking about command pushes, is there a massive difference between saying “ready for command now” in the first half of the push, versus “Sq/CC next” in the second half? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarleyQuinn Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 2 hours ago, ihtfp06 said: I’m guessing it’s the pre-op hormones they have him taking. I thought TriCare stopped paying for those? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 8 hours ago, Duck said: Bashi, what’s going on in your life man? You’ve been a negative Nancy for a while man. Stressed out about making major I guess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennynova Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 At least Bashi has a sense of humor to go along with the doldrums he brings 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 I think it’s funny Bashi talks like a 12 year old playing Call is Duty whilst drunk. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 1 hour ago, matmacwc said: I think it’s funny Bashi talks like a 12 year old playing Call is Duty fortnite whilst drunk. fify its the rage among all millennials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Bashi, what’s going on in your life man? You’ve been a negative Nancy for a while man. But in an awkward, PYB way... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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