Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[DirkDiggler]

9 minutes ago, FourFans130 said:

FilthyLiar Disappears...Chang Reappears...   Coincidence?

It’s just Bashi’s alternate troll account.

[jice]

So just to recap: A1 looked at the numbers and said “the only way we have a chance of making an effective bonus at this price point is to trick them before they’re old/wise enough to have considered the implications of their decisions.”

A flat bonus is a blunt instrument and a small flat bonus is a small blunt instrument. If you’re coercively using small blunt instruments… well let’s just say that’s not operating in good faith.

I hope this saved a shitty labor economist from mowing lawns, but the reality is I doubt any were consulted. 

[litercola2]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:22 PM, General Chang said:

$50K is a lot of money, young peeps.  I recommend you sign early.

Meh....this month, a certain air line is going to pay out nearly double that to any pilot that has been on the property for more than a 3 or 4 years....without ever having to have leave with your family cancelled, being forced to move every 3 years, or be scolded by somebody named Chief for leaning back on your chair in the chow hall because it's a "fire hazard...."  

[filthy_liar]

5 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

FilthyLiar Disappears...Chang Reappears...   Coincidence?

Nonsense.  That Chang dude does not drink nearly enough to accurately impersonate me.

[WheelsOff]

…In other news, Delta pilots just voted in their new TA and set a new standard for the rest of the industry.

[jice]

56 minutes ago, WheelsOff said:

…In other news, Delta pilots just voted in their new TA and set a new standard for the rest of the industry.

And oh by the way… they’ve also got a CJO for you 2 years prior to your separation date… so, yeah. 

[hindsight2020]

1 hour ago, jice said:

And oh by the way… they’ve also got a CJO for you 2 years prior to your separation date… so, yeah. 

And? What I mean is, by that metric, Walmart has a CJO for me 2 years from separation date too, and I don't even have to apply for that one. It's not the draw you think it is.

Now, let me sit day one of indoc on personal leave, grab that line number and come back in 2 years, now you got my attention.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by hindsight2020

[Danger41]

2 hours ago, jice said:

And oh by the way… they’ve also got a CJO for you 2 years prior to your separation date… so, yeah. 

1 year from separation (validated) and 2 years from retirement. How they tell the difference…no clue.

[jice]

13 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

And? What I mean is, by that metric, Walmart has a CJO for me 2 years from separation date too, and I don't even have to apply for that one. It's not the draw you think it is.

Now, let me sit day one of indoc on personal leave, grab that line number and come back in 2 years, now you got my attention.

 

That’s true, and totally agree re: the second point. But a CJO is better than absolute uncertainty. “You’re not the weird guy nobody will hire” is probably enough for a lot of folks who haven’t seen their kids in 6 months. Having a (conditional) answer to the wife’s “when are we going to be done with this BS and start the airline life” might be worth dozens of thousands of future dollars… depending on the wife. 

[CaptainMorgan]

1 year from separation (validated) and 2 years from retirement. How they tell the difference…no clue.

I’m guessing 18 AD years with no break in service is a good indicator of being within 2 years of retirement eligibility?


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[tac airlifter]

10 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

And? What I mean is, by that metric, Walmart has a CJO for me 2 years from separation date too, and I don't even have to apply for that one. It's not the draw you think it is.

Now, let me sit day one of indoc on personal leave, grab that line number and come back in 2 years, now you got my attention.

 

I did indoc on personal leave, got a line number and waited a few months for SIMs before starting terminal.  Not at Delta though, they're hard up about it.

A big draw to early CJO is that some people will be less competitive immediately before separation due to loss of currency 12 months earlier.  The AF has been known to fuck people getting out by taking them off the line. 

[hindsight2020]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

I did indoc on personal leave, got a line number and waited a few months for SIMs before starting terminal.  Not at Delta though, they're hard up about it.

A big draw to early CJO is that some people will be less competitive immediately before separation due to loss of currency 12 months earlier.  The AF has been known to fuck people getting out by taking them off the line. 

dayum, regAF is extra petty. If that's the level of toxicity I stand corrected then, that's a good caveat.

[Homestar]

7 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

 The AF has been known to fuck people getting out by taking them off the line. 

That’s your DO’s fault. 

If Delta had offered me a CJO two years ago I never would have applied anywhere else. That’s a lot of time and effort saved wasted on applying everywhere. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Homestar

[tac airlifter]

21 minutes ago, Homestar said:

That’s your DO’s fault. 

My MAJCOM A3 expressly forbid me from flying because I had "flown too much" during my career and "as an O6 select it's time to grow up."

We have many great leaders, but also some terrible ones and folks should be wary of unpredictable outcomes once announcing intentions to leave.  An early CJO is valuable security.

 

[DirkDiggler]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

My MAJCOM A3 expressly forbid me from flying because I had "flown too much" during my career and "as an O6 select it's time to grow up."

We have many great leaders, but also some terrible ones and folks should be wary of unpredictable outcomes once announcing intentions to leave.  An early CJO is valuable security.

 

The last STS one or the new female said that?  Either way that’s ridiculous.  And AFSOC wonders why they’re hemorrhaging so many O-6s.

[Homestar]

4 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

My MAJCOM A3 expressly forbid me from flying because I had "flown too much" during my career and "as an O6 select it's time to grow up."

We have many great leaders, but also some terrible ones and folks should be wary of unpredictable outcomes once announcing intentions to leave.  An early CJO is valuable security.

 

My MAJCOM A3 has no idea who I am. I assumed you were at the squadron level. 

[afaf]

On 3/3/2023 at 8:59 AM, tac airlifter said:

I did indoc on personal leave, got a line number and waited a few months for SIMs before starting terminal.  Not at Delta though, they're hard up about it.

A big draw to early CJO is that some people will be less competitive immediately before separation due to loss of currency 12 months earlier.  The AF has been known to people getting out by taking them off the line. 

@tac airlifter hey man, I'm in a similar boat with a couple CJOs and separating this fall.  I've been planning for this and amassed a big leave total since we were allowed with the COVID overages.  I'm planning over a hundred days of terminal, but right now it's biting me in the ass because I can't get orders in a timely manner.  If I'm lucky I'll have them less than 30 days before starting terminal.  I was wondering if something like indoc on personal leave was possible, but figured I'd have to do that form allowing me to have a second job.  How'd you get that all to work out? DM me if you'd rather message off the public forum.  Thanks in advance.  

[BroncoEN]

5 hours ago, afaf said:

@tac airlifter hey man, I'm in a similar boat with a couple CJOs and separating this fall.  I've been planning for this and amassed a big leave total since we were allowed with the COVID overages.  I'm planning over a hundred days of terminal, but right now it's biting me in the ass because I can't get orders in a timely manner.  If I'm lucky I'll have them less than 30 days before starting terminal.  I was wondering if something like indoc on personal leave was possible, but figured I'd have to do that form allowing me to have a second job.  How'd you get that all to work out? DM me if you'd rather message off the public forum.  Thanks in advance.  

Not sure who you have CJOs for and I can only speak for Delta Air Lines, they will not let you attend indoc on personal leave. Must be terminal. 

[FLEA]

5 hours ago, afaf said:

@tac airlifter hey man, I'm in a similar boat with a couple CJOs and separating this fall.  I've been planning for this and amassed a big leave total since we were allowed with the COVID overages.  I'm planning over a hundred days of terminal, but right now it's biting me in the ass because I can't get orders in a timely manner.  If I'm lucky I'll have them less than 30 days before starting terminal.  I was wondering if something like indoc on personal leave was possible, but figured I'd have to do that form allowing me to have a second job.  How'd you get that all to work out? DM me if you'd rather message off the public forum.  Thanks in advance.  

So... Speaking from recent experience..... Did you know if you wanted orders earlier than the standard 60 days prior or whatever that you need to go into vMPF and request expedited orders for terminal leave/SkillBridge.....

 

Because I didn't know that and no one told me until almost too late. 

[Scooter14]

Indoc while on terminal leave is the answer 

100%


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[Scooter14]

Indoc while on terminal leave is the answer 

100%


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[BroncoEN]

On 4/17/2022 at 10:16 PM, ViperStud said:

It’s better to go guard, get into an AGR position (fairly easy as a Maj), sign a bonus for the same amount and remain a free agent - if you curtail your orders you only owe money back if you didn’t serve it out. All the benefit, none of the ADSC. 
 

AD bonus is for those who were staying anyway…and complete suckers. 

Trying to decipher the FY22 ANG AvB policy. If you take AGR orders, sign a 3-year AvB, and have to curtail the orders for one reason or another (but stay DSG and serve all 3 years in one capacity or another)… do you pay it all back? 
 

4.7 Recoupment of Payment

   4.7.1.3 Member does not serve the agreed-upon period… all previous AvB payments are considered a debt and full amount recouped.

But then it states later:

5.2.1 Tier 1 Pilot (bonus)

5.2.1.3 Failure to serve the full agreement duration of service under this agreement will result in full recoupment of bonus monies IAW para 4.7.

5.2.1.4 Reduced Rate. A member on Tier 1 AvB who is no longer AGR will be subject to a reduced annual payment of $15,000 … and will remain at that reduced rate for the remaining length of their agreement. 
 

Trying to decipher, does 4.7.1.3 only apply if you completely separate from the ANG before 3 years (not stay DSG )? Or does it mean if you don’t serve out the AGR orders you owe it all back.

The reduced rate paragraph makes it seem like your bonus will just switch to $15K per year as a DSG until the 3-year contract is over. 

[Guardian]

Indoc while on terminal leave is the answer 

And from what I’m told any time you are finishing orders it can be considered terminal for the airlines purposes. Not sure if that’s written any where. And it just needs to be in conjunction with your orders ending. I’ve been told Delta will accept that in letter from your commander.

[Guardian]

Trying to decipher the FY22 ANG AvB policy. If you take AGR orders, sign a 3-year AvB, and have to curtail the orders for one reason or another (but stay DSG and serve all 3 years in one capacity or another)… do you pay it all back? 
 
4.7 Recoupment of Payment
   4.7.1.3 Member does not serve the agreed-upon period… all previous AvB payments are considered a debt and full amount recouped.
But then it states later:
5.2.1 Tier 1 Pilot (bonus)
5.2.1.3 Failure to serve the full agreement duration of service under this agreement will result in full recoupment of bonus monies IAW para 4.7.
5.2.1.4 Reduced Rate. A member on Tier 1 AvB who is no longer AGR will be subject to a reduced annual payment of $15,000 … and will remain at that reduced rate for the remaining length of their agreement. 
 
Trying to decipher, does 4.7.1.3 only apply if you completely separate from the ANG before 3 years (not stay DSG )? Or does it mean if you don’t serve out the AGR orders you owe it all back.
The reduced rate paragraph makes it seem like your bonus will just switch to $15K per year as a DSG until the 3-year contract is over. 

Is the new guard reserve bonus out?

[BroncoEN]

27 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Is the new guard reserve bonus out?

Not yet, just planning assuming the new bonus will have the same verbiage