Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Swizzle]

Questions in response to your question, because this isn't the right medium for specific answers.   

A cliché GI Joe quote is, "knowledge is half the battle!" This case being knowledge of test processes. But what is other half, actual execution thereof???

And, does test know and employ the way test is regulated and supposed to test? Do our Senior Leaders truly understand test? Are we structured in this period of adapt or lose to test fast enough? What is the limiting factor? Do we need more tests, which I akin to fun play and learning?

A metaphor that comes to mind lately is that the Service's aim is correct, but the "organizational-ballistics", being misunderstood, lead to a target miss. The miss we all talk about and loathe - 'they can't get it right'. For whatever the reasons, some being wrong "powder", wrong "grain- weight", wrong "barrell", wrong "twist", and wrong "metallurgy" but good optics on the right target. So does the shooter see the miss? If yes, are they being honest with themselves? Do they fix the whole system to bulleyes' at 100, 500 or 1,000 yds or just move the target to pistol-whip distance and then PCS calling it a win (KC-46, F-35, MyTravel, MyFSS/Eval...etc, etc) 

Also - Anyone who truly, wholy understands the implications of these three words must brilliant - organize, train, equip. Those military leaders who properly understand and execute those three to fruition must've been epic.

 

[General Chang]

I just took a high-level briefing on this- Take rates are WAY up this year compared to last.  The percentages are actually pretty staggering.  We are well on our way to solving this crisis.

[Swizzle]

2 hours ago, General Chang said:

I just took a high-level briefing on this- Take rates are WAY up this year compared to last.  The percentages are actually pretty staggering.  We are well on our way to solving this crisis.

Easy when the denominator is adjusted closer to 0, they'd probably try a 0 denominator policy if possible. 

Oh wait, what's this?

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023/03/08/us-air-force-eyes-fleet-of-1000-drone-wingmen-as-planning-accelerates/

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2448376/ai-copilot-air-force-achieves-first-military-flight-with-artificial-intelligence/

https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/2020/09/28/the-air-forces-robot-pilot-returns-to-the-skies/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.military.com/daily-news/2022/07/21/air-force-testing-autonomous-control-transport-planes-amid-pilot-shortage.html/amp

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2016/11/09/darpa-banks-on-robot-copilots-to-help-quell-military-pilot-shortage/

Heck even Amrny and Marines trying it!

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/10/31/this-darpa-program-will-give-army-and-marine-aviators-a-robot-co-pilot/

 

 

 

[brabus]

That’s so irrelevant right now (the argument robots are taking all the pilot jobs). I was one of the “last” manned fighter pilots in 2009, reality is the last manned fighter pilot hasn’t been born. 

[pawnman]

7 minutes ago, Swizzle said:

Easy when the denominator is adjusted closer to 0, they'd probably try a 0 denominator policy if possible. 

Oh wait, what's this?

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023/03/08/us-air-force-eyes-fleet-of-1000-drone-wingmen-as-planning-accelerates/

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2448376/ai-copilot-air-force-achieves-first-military-flight-with-artificial-intelligence/

https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/2020/09/28/the-air-forces-robot-pilot-returns-to-the-skies/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.military.com/daily-news/2022/07/21/air-force-testing-autonomous-control-transport-planes-amid-pilot-shortage.html/amp

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2016/11/09/darpa-banks-on-robot-copilots-to-help-quell-military-pilot-shortage/

Heck even Amrny and Marines trying it!

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/10/31/this-darpa-program-will-give-army-and-marine-aviators-a-robot-co-pilot/

 

 

 

But how much of a bonus do you have to offer the AI to keep it from going to Delta?

Edited August 19, 2023 by pawnman

[DirkDiggler]

8 hours ago, pawnman said:

But how much of a bonus do you have to offer the AI to keep it from going to Delta?

The RAND corporation is currently under a $50 million contract to study this issue and issue a 75 page report, hopefully by the end of FY29.

[Danger41]

I’ve worked quite a bit with AI and proposed solutions on this very topic. I think copilots jobs are safe for a long, long time if the current state is any indication of where the technology is.

[brabus]

1 hour ago, DirkDiggler said:

The RAND corporation is currently under a $50 million contract to study this issue and issue a 75 page report, hopefully by the end of FY29.

It never ceases to amaze me how much money the RAND corp has made producing toilet paper for the govt. Not necessarily saying their analysis is bad, but leadership does nothing beyond take their reports and wipe their asses with it. I mean if you’re going to consistently ignore their findings and recs, then why even hire them in the first place?

[SocialD]

20 minutes ago, brabus said:

I mean if you’re going to consistently ignore their findings and recs, then why even hire them in the first place?

 

 

Post retirement job opportunities?  A buddy in the business world says the same thing about hiring companies like McKinsey (he worked there before his current gig).  Basically McKinsey hires from the big business schools.  Guys work for McKinsey until a company snatches them up.  Then these guys hire McKinsey to consult on something that could likely be solved by those who already work for that company.  One big self licking ice cream cone. 

[herkbier]

Because it is a way to show you are “doing” something about an issue..

[Magnum]

15 hours ago, General Chang said:

I just took a high-level briefing on this- Take rates are WAY up this year IN THE GUARD compared to last.  The percentages are actually pretty staggering.  We are well on our way to solving this crisis.

FIFY

[Inertia17]

Based on USAF's track record of implementing any form of technology advancement in a timely manner, I think we will be fine for another few decades.

That being said, if they want to start using AI to replace Finance and MPF...I would be on board.

[raimius]

17 hours ago, Inertia17 said:

Based on USAF's track record of implementing any form of technology advancement in a timely manner, I think we will be fine for another few decades.

That being said, if they want to start using AI to replace Finance and MPF...I would be on board.

AI finance would probably start quoting you some reg (that doesn't actually exist, and it made up because it sounds bureaucratic) for why it denied your travel voucher/PCs expense/pay.

[Inertia17]

5 hours ago, raimius said:

AI finance would probably start quoting you some reg (that doesn't actually exist, and it made up because it sounds bureaucratic) for why it denied your travel voucher/PCs expense/pay.

Wouldn't actually be a step backwards, but it would be able to do it after 3pm.

[Pooter]

On 8/15/2023 at 11:23 AM, Ant-man said:

New bonus, including the Assignment of Preference option. Looks like scaling monetary options based on contract length OR Assignment of preference (with several caveats) OR both options that incurs a longer ADSC.

This base of preference option looks sketchy at best and predatory at worst.

[Ant-man]

7 hours ago, Pooter said:

This base of preference option looks sketchy at best and predatory at worst.

Yep. The list of bases is broken down by core MWS, and they are essentially all the same format: ops bases for your aircraft, the FTU, or any UPT base. First come, first serve basis. That's how they get around the problem of appeasing everyone at once. Also, if you only do the BOP it's a four year commitment. Who is gonna trade a four year ADSC for two years at their base of choice?

https://www.milsuite.mil/book/groups/dpap

[Pooter]

2 hours ago, Ant-man said:

Yep. The list of bases is broken down by core MWS, and they are essentially all the same format: ops bases for your aircraft, the FTU, or any UPT base. First come, first serve basis. That's how they get around the problem of appeasing everyone at once. Also, if you only do the BOP it's a four year commitment. Who is gonna trade a four year ADSC for two years at their base of choice?

https://www.milsuite.mil/book/groups/dpap

And the craziest part is your BOP time hacks as soon as you sign the paper but the ADSC is tacked on the end after your UPT one expires. 

[Bigred]

5 hours ago, Pooter said:

And the craziest part is your BOP time hacks as soon as you sign the paper but the ADSC is tacked on the end after your UPT one expires. 

And it’s BOP in name only. They make it clear that as soon as the AF needs to move you, they will. The ADSC goes away but what’s the point of the program if the AF can just say sorry but you gotta move. 

[Swizzle]

3 hours ago, Bigred said:

And it’s BOP in name only. They make it clear that as soon as the AF needs to move you, they will. The ADSC goes away but what’s the point of the program if the AF can just say sorry but you gotta move. 

And give you a PCS commitment of 1-2 years or 3 for OCONUS accompanied while under a DPAP ADSC? So when does the DPAP ADSC go away if BoP is not honored? 1 year before or after being voluntold for another PCS?? 

didn't read the fine print covering that administrative dilemma 

[brabus]

Nothing has changed - if you’re leaning on staying in regardlesss, then go for it. If you’re one foot out the door and this is what pulls you back in, you’re an idiot. 

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

Nothing has changed - if you’re leaning on staying in regardlesss, then go for it. If you’re one foot out the door and this is what pulls you back in, you’re an idiot. 

Exactly. One wonders the man-hours wasted in the halls of AFPC cooking up this latest crock of shit, that appeals to precisely no-one except those planning to stay in anyway.

[General Chang]

Goodness, you guys would complain about winning $1,000,000 in Powerball because it wasn’t the grand prize.  These are options, people!  Get a grip!

[busdriver]

7 hours ago, Pooter said:

 those planning to stay in anyway.

The bonus is and always has been about exactly this.  It is question to people who plan to stay in till 20; "what is your free agency worth?"  It has never been about keeping people in, the AF can't afford those dollar figures.

AFPC processes are built around numbers, if they can get people to give up their free agency, AFPC can then count on a minimum amount of bodies to plan for the future.  The only actual change in this latest release is that folks have to decide to stay a year (or 2) before previous generations.  

Good advice has already been given, if you've already made up your mind to stay to 20 then by all means sign the bonus.  But only extend out to 20.  There is life after the military and once you hit 20, you really want leverage and choices again.

[Swizzle]

So if USA is in for another CR, and maybe no paycheck during a gov't shutdown, and likely in the future, could a DPAP contract be indentured servitude? Aka no $ for work contract? And maybe not even the BoP, at the discretion of USAF?!  Interesting plausible path...

[Pooter]

4 hours ago, General Chang said:

Goodness, you guys would complain about winning $1,000,000 in Powerball because it wasn’t the grand prize.  These are options, people!  Get a grip!

Taking the bonus is quite literally the opposite of having options.

I wouldn't be complaining if the money was even remotely competitive or if the BOP option didn't read like a predatory scam.